md655321 Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 It seems to me the your continuing focus on your perceived reasons for why people make music is getting in the way of what the music actually is. Not sure if there is any psychological projection working on you here, but personally I dont see why it matters what Zorn calls the band. Certainly he is inspired by his Jewish roots, as he has not only used the name but also genuinely incorporated aspects of Jewish culture into the music. And it is hardly uncommon for people to "rediscover" their roots, so to speak, later in life. Especially Jews. More to the point, the incredible music that Zorn and especially Masada create makes any possible nefarious motivations on Zorn's part moot. The music is very special, and often very good. What he uses, or not uses, to market the music is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 well zorn can sucker another jew in, but i will stay away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 More to the point, the incredible music that Zorn and especially Masada create makes any possible nefarious motivations on Zorn's part moot. The music is very special, and often very good. What he uses, or not uses, to market the music is irrelevant. and i don't think one can just overlook the motives behind the music. got to take the music in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) this is the organissimo jazz forum-surely i can state an opinion without having to back it up with a bogus MCM disertation. i did enough of that in college. i am sure if you yourself had a better venue for your ruminiations you wouldn't waste all your "A" material here, would you? maybe i will do what you often do... i know there are many angles and levels both culturally and critically to attack zorn and i will write more about it later. in the meantime, check out snowglobe for yr azzes. an read the third policeman too. except i won't write about it later. and you do not often seem to either. but the point is-I DONT GIVE A SHIT. as a jew i don't like zorn appropriating my culture/religion to make a buck. this is my opinion. i am entitled to it. obviously other people disagree. that is fine too. i will keep thinking what i think. i never claimed this was an original thought. the fucking penguin guide mentions that they think his judaic awakening is bogus (though it's possible they are anti-semities like eliot and greene i guess....). and i think i have read enough roth and spent enough time in newark buying clothing, drugs and southern food to say that i think bruce gallanter is the money guy behind zorn. its a vicious cycle. zorn makes them, bruce sells em. bruce's money and zorn's name... go weequaic indians!!! Edited February 6, 2006 by akanalog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) as a jew i don't like zorn appropriating my culture/religion to make a buck. I'm sure (as a Jew), Zorn doesn't like you trashing his music project, either. But you ARE entitled to you opinion, sir. Edited February 6, 2006 by BFrank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 time for a group circumcision. sorry i couldn't come up w/ a g__d g__gle ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 i have a feeling zorn could care less what i think. but i will be staying away from the stone as well, just so i don't give the jerk any support in any way. and believe me, as someone who is proud of my culture (not so much religion as i am anti-religion in general) it would make me happy to have a jewish dude representing my people i could give a thumbs up to. with that in mind, i will buy "stan's party" as i have been thinking about doing. ok this is closed for me. sorry for blemishing this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 steering this off course a bit (as I'm not Jewish) but I spun bits of a NetfliX delivery this weekend of the 'Masada @ Tonic' DVD. far cry from a documentary - just the live gist on film. three words, as the "well-dressed man" might say, - "Joey Fuckin' Baron!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 but i will be staying away from the stone as well, just so i don't give the jerk any support in any way. I don't know anything about John Zorn's personality, as you apparently seem to. But I've enjoyed the music he's created in his very diverse career so far. I'll support any good music that I come across, and if the "Stone Issue One" cd is indicative of the caliber of music that is being performed at the Stone, I'd be there as often as I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I think Zorn is sincere in his appropriation of Jewish themes, and Zorn, being Zorn, does whatever the hell he wants to do. I've been thinking about this a bit, as my latest musical project is about post-1950s Jewish suburban acculturation, from Bloomfield to Andy Stein - this kind of cultural nationalism can be interesting or tiresome and I think Zorn has made something vital out of it, something that, agreeing with Clem (abusive as he continues to be) is worthy of serious critical examination. Where I quibble with Zorn is his apparent unawareness of other strains of radical Jewish culture (I've tried, eg, in vain, to get him interested in a Dave Schildkraut project but I have a feeling he has no idea of Schildkraut's importance) - even so, no one can cover every base - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 and speaking of Baron Samedi .... i also purchased the DVD of "Corpse Bride" this weekend. essential viewing, jewish or not, if for only seeing that Tim Burton, while beginning to look like Miami Steve, reminds me creatively of Zorn in that anything goes within his vision as long as it requires work, work, work. the special features behind this flick are nothing short of an astounding glimpse into a crazed mind and the buddies who bring it all to "life". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 and i think i have read enough roth and spent enough time in newark buying clothing, drugs and southern food to say that i think bruce gallanter is the money guy behind zorn. its a vicious cycle. zorn makes them, bruce sells em. bruce's money and zorn's name... I don't think so. DMG sells Tzadik CDs and Bruce is Zorn's biggest fan, but I think that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) i can't tell if yr playing deadpan 7/4 or if the smileys express incredulity... i didn't even BOTHER refuting that part, the brash & willful ignorance there & elsewhere oughta speak for itself I guess I put them in the wrong place, they should have been before my comment. I just think the concept of Bruce funding Zorn is pretty far out. Why would they have to hold a benefit to move DMG from the old location on East 5th to the current location on Bowery if Bruce is so loaded with cash? Edited February 6, 2006 by 7/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Clem - I love Wallace Markfield; some day we may even get along, if you stop calling everybody a douchebag - and I admire Statman, funny you should mention his name as I've been trying to reach him - don't know Melanie Klein, however - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 hey-- AK, how old where you when Lunch For Your Ears opened? & then closed? tell us three-four-five musicians who worked at Pier Platters (either store) since yr now so Jersey too. thanks in advance-- If you're talking to me, I'm 46 - figure it out for yourself. I think I went to Pier Platters in Hoboken(?) once, I happened to be in the neighborhood. Lunch For Your Ears, maybe a dozen times before Manny went to Lunch for good. At the time, I lived in New Brunswick, so I made more trips to Cheap Trills and the Princeton Record Exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 dude i used to buy my silver jews records at pier platters. i used to take the gladstone train there. i was like 15 and only listened to pavement and steve albini related records so i could have been handing my money to bob bert and i wouldn't have known. however i did intern for georgia hubley's sister and even drove faith hubley back home to her place in riverdale once if that is good enough for you. and i did have a that dog poster for some reason i guess i got when i was interning at zero hour records. and speaking of the brooklyn hassids-my fucking first cousins are lubavitch. and you know what? i think they are morons. i don't even speak to them anymore because of it. my two woman cousins wearing their stupid wigs, one of them having 4 kids by the time she was 20. all of them changing their names. and one of them moving to israel where she is part of the problem, being one of the settlement wackos who...well you know. so anyway i do find them all deplorable. it's a cult as far as i am concerned. if i am parroting someone elses line then i am sorry but since i don't really read anything about mr. zorn since i am not interested in his music i don't know where i would have gotten my thoughts from (besdies as i mentioned, the one line in the penguin guide). PERHAPS it's just that other people have the same sentiments i do. which makes me feel comforted i am not alone in my feelings. and i was too young to be going to lunch for your ears though one time recently i went into dmg at like 11 on a friday night to get my copy of michael gibbs "just ahead" and manny was in there eating cheetos by himself and he handed me the disc and it had some cheetos finger marks on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 no no not you 7/4, i was talkin' to the dopey kid... txxx for that background tho'... what's REALLY funny is hell, i dunno everything, i thought akanalog might, by who knows what means, really had some wild scoop that'd blow us all away... the Bruce = $$$ thing is unreal... i once went to record store in New Brunswick, c. '89 or '90. was there a weirdo used joint maybe even in an old trailer or boxcar? Old diner on Rt. 27. I lived in New/North Brunswick for 24 years and I never went into that place. I hear the used records were kinda $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 and i was too young to be going to lunch for your ears though one time recently i went into dmg at like 11 on a friday night to get my copy of michael gibbs "just ahead" and manny was in there eating cheetos by himself and he handed me the disc and it had some cheetos finger marks on it. You see? He's out to lunch. For someone who's in Oslo, you sure spend a lot of time in NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 and i think i have read enough roth and spent enough time in newark buying clothing, drugs and southern food to say that i think bruce gallanter is the money guy behind zorn. its a vicious cycle. zorn makes them, bruce sells em. bruce's money and zorn's name... I don't think so. DMG sells Tzadik CDs and Bruce is Zorn's biggest fan, but I think that's about it. I was just talking to Bruce about this. We had a good laugh. I'd like to point out that if he has big bucks, he would own a set of wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 many new yorkers don't own a set of wheels. more money to spend producing another unnecessary masada live disc!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 many new yorkers don't own a set of wheels. more money to spend producing another unnecessary masada live disc!!!! Bruce lives a few blocks from me here in NJ. Guess who gives him rides sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 i am nonplussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 i am nonplussed. That's pretty obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Big thumbs up to Ned Rothenberg’s Solo Works-The Lumina Recordings, which was recently released on Tzadik. Other than Braxton’s Creative Orchestra tour of ’78 and a stray track from a Robert Dick album, I hadn’t heard Rothenberg before. This is great stuff. As far as solo works go, Rothenberg is closer to the Evan Parker side of the spectrum. He uses overdubbing to create long, fascinating pieces that recall electronics as much as the saxophone. My favourites so far are the two tracks from his first LP, “Trials of the Argo” and “Continuo after the Inuit.” There’s also duets with Gerry Hemingway and John Zorn, plus workouts on ocarina and bass clarinet. Great booklet with notes by Rothenberg himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I had a night last week where I could actually go out and catch some live music(A rarity for me.), so I searched listings at everyplace in Manhattan, and I came up with nothing that caught my fancy. I decided to check out what was at The Stone, and they had a group called Rashanim, who are described as 'Jewish jazz-rock'. Intrigued, I hunted around and listened to a full tune of theirs and I really liked what I heard, so I decided to go to The Stone. Besides, I figured if they stunk I was only out $10 and the $ went to the musicians, so no great loss. The Stone is a small room, no drinks for sale, no stuff up on the walls, plastic folding chairs and a capacity of about 70-80. When I came in they had both Rashanim discs for sale at $25 for the two, so I bought them. THESE GUYS ROCKED!!!. They are a trio of guitar, bass & drums, and what they play certainly owes a lot to jazz, rock, and some of the melodies they played sounded klezmerish. Some of the things the guitarist(Jon Madoff) played definitely had a Middle Eastern bent to them. The drummer(Mathias Kunzli)sp? was an absolute monster, driving the band by playing some beautifully timed/placed accents and framing the rhythm to provide a bed for the guitarist to fly on. The crowd was young, looked to all be in their 20s, and that was a very positive sign to me, that young folks(I'm closing in on 50) were interested in music that had some substance to it. I'd highly recommend them to anyone, I was that impressed. They are on Zorn's Tzadik label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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