John Zorn's TZADIK Label

[Seven Over Eight]

I've been interested in John Zorn's Tzadik label for a couple of years now, but I don't find too many others who delve into it as often as I do. I was wondering if this might be a good place to suggest or talk about the records and artists on this label, and help others find good albums to check out. Thanks!

[king ubu]

I only have one disc from the Tzadik label, Marc Ribot's "Yo! I Killed Your God". Quite a noisy affair!

I have enjoyed everything I have heard yet by Zorn's Masada outfit. Then I heard some broadcast of Steven Bernstein's Diaspora Soul project, which I like very much, judging from that.

Generally, these albums are extremely expensive over here (almost 30$ !!). Anyone knows a good place to buy them online with not too much shipping cost to Europe?

ubu

[Simon Weil]

I'm a kind of "on and off" fan of Zorn. But if you're really interested, there's a Zorn list website with access to past logs as well as the possibilty of signing up.

I know at least one guy who used to swear by it (i.e. said it was very good).

Simon Weil

[AfricaBrass]

I've got a few things on the Tzadik label other than the Zorn stuff. I really liked Jim O'Rourke's Terminal Pharmacy cd. I haven't listened to it in a long time, but I used to dig it.

One Tzadik release I implore you to avoid is: John Zorn's "Songs From the Hermetic Theatre" - I think it's the worst cd I ever bought. This is coming from someone who has over 20 Zorn cds already.

It actually inspired me to start an anti-recommendation thread:

Anti-recommendation thread

I don't even think there are drugs out there that would make this album sound good.

:rsmile:

[mikeweil]

I only have two Tzadik CDs and like 'em both:

- Milford Graves' Grand Unification: an excellently recorded solo outing by one of the greatest living percussive beings

- Roberto Juan Rodriguez: El Danzon de Moises. This is a fantasy on the hidden Jewish thread in Cuban music. Rodriguez and Susie Ibarra lay down some irresistible grooves, there is plenty of humor and great arrangements. One of the best Latin Jazz records in recent years, highly recommended.

[Stefan Wood]

Frank London, Anthony Coleman, Steve Coleman, Susie Ibarra. There is a lot of good music to be heard on this label, other than Masada.

[John B]

Wadada Leo Smith's Red Sulphur Sky is another great disc on Tzadik.

[.:.impossible]

Another great Wadada Leo Smith album out on Tzadik is GOLDEN QUARTET. Leo Smith, Anthony Davis, Malachi Favors Magoustous, Jack DeJohnette. Believe me, the sum is even greater than its parts! Still haven't heard the follow up... too expensive everytime I see it in the store.

Tim Sparks' Tzadik albums are wonderful as well. Fantastic acoustic guitarist with an "outsider's" impression of old Jewish musics.

Maybe its not cool to recommend Masada discs here, but I have to recommend the 2CD set THE CIRCLE MAKER. Cinematic.

I'll second both of Mike Weil's recommendations. The Robert Juan Rodriguez album is sharp and hot!

I haven't been keeping up with the TZADIK releases lately. I wonder what's new?

AB, can you talk a little more about the Jim O'Rourke recording? I like a lot of his music and am curious about what he would do with Zorn producing.

[AfricaBrass]

Impossible,

The Jim O'Rourke is from '95, so it's more experimental and ambient than his current stuff. I used to really be into that ambient stuff back then, so I may have been biased. I don't really know how to describe it. Here's the review from allmusic.com, they can articulate it better than I can.

"With Terminal Pharmacy, Jim O'Rourke creates a soundscape so calm and minimal that some people, lacking patience for the seeming formlessness, could do entirely without it, while others will find themselves repeatedly putting it in their CD player at home, work, or wherever they need warmth dispersed throughout the air. Seeping steadily from the edge of silence comes crackles, thin fuzz, and extended string tones. Less narrative than what "electro-acoustic" usually refers to, "Cede" hums at the back of your mind. Given almost a minute of silence in between, the second piece then begins; sounding like a very quiet improvisation, the instruments whisper bowed rounds, a conversation in tininess that grows bolder at moments."

My favorite Jim O'Rourke albums is Bad Timing. That's him doing the John Fahey thing. You've probably heard it, but if you haven't, check it out. It's on the Drag City label, I believe.

:rsmile:

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I just received, and am very much liking, the new Marc Ribot Film Music II set. Two various scores and one remixed cut. No rhyme or reason or cohesiveness whatsoever. Just some nice sounding stuff.

Only a couple of wacky tunes and he doesn't play the guitar with baloons on this one. More so his compositional side. Bernstein & the Rodriguez duo, the usual Tzadik strings, Peter Scherer & Coleman on keybs here and there, and some very timid Zorn sounding noise blues that isn't Zorn. It seems to go from retro guitar, sonic sci-fi bolly-funk, some al green philly-soul-cheese-steak, Rothenberg playing shackuhachi (always phenomenal), slack hi-life, some beautiful classical guitar and a bit of stax retro soul. Probably not all there is but it's just like one of those photo montages with all the cuts stretching from one or two minutes to five.

Highly recommended and perfect sounding as usual.

[Seven Over Eight]

Then I heard some broadcast of Steven Bernstein's Diaspora Soul project, which I like very much, judging from that.

I have the Diaspora Blues cd, and it is excellent.

Sorry to hear about the costs.

[Seven Over Eight]

Tim Sparks' Tzadik albums are wonderful as well. Fantastic acoustic guitarist with an "outsider's" impression of old Jewish musics.

I haven't been keeping up with the TZADIK releases lately. I wonder what's new?

Tim Sparks does a good job on the Masada Guitars CD as well. Maybe you'd like that one.

[Seven Over Eight]

(Copied from a recent post I made to the slsk board, I think you guys would be more interested:)

Bobby Previte - The 23 Constellations of Joan Miro

A relatively recent find for me, and one that blew my mind upon first listening. This thing is beautiful. Can be described as a "mad rush of colors through the brain" as far as a listening experience. Sounds very improvised throughout, but actually I believe most of it is written. Reminiscent of Alice Coltrane's "Journey in Satchidananda", it's a wonderful trip through sound, color and texture.

[wordsandsounds]

Tzadik really gets a bad rap. Primarily b/c of the fron man (and partially true in some ways). And there are always other factors but the sounds are first and foremost in my book...

There are some real gems out there including some mentioned here in this thread. In particular the Bobby Previte cd. Definetly one that conjures more images and soundscapes than words could ever say, and in a way, unlike any other release he has put out including his ryko discs. The last post does a good job describing it i think.

The Roberto Juan Rodriguez is another one that I have yet to find anyone who has listened to it- which is a real shame especially b/c of the minor craze that developed over Marc Ribot's Atlantic recordings. I guess distribution strikes again. And although only mentioned in passing, the Frank London cd "remixed/reconstructed" by John Zorn Scientist at Work I consider one of those especial impulse buys.

Which relates to the last one I will mention. Another impulse buy for me for those with a less "jazz" background and more of a varied nature will most likely find some pleasure in Carla Kihlstedt's 2 Foot Yard cd. Think of the instrumentation of Tin Hat Trio (of which she is a third) and a Tom Wait's album. That's really the only description I can afford.

Hunt the catalog though... there is a lot there... Zeena Parkins, Milford Graves, Wadada Lao Smith (if you dig the Golden Quartet- get the Pi Recordings release!), etc....

And the Circle Maker (and this applies to that Previte cd) makes me wanna steal from Myra Melford... Even the sounds shine

[jlhoots]

Midnight Minyan looks interesting (Tzadik 7174).

[Late]

I really enjoy this label, largely because of its diverse offerings. There's just about something for everyone. Here are some recommendations I'd make:

• Mark Feldman: Music for Violin Alone — Beautiful, and often intense, playing from Feldman.

• Guy Klucevsek: Stolen Moments — One of my favorites on this label ... except for the one vocal track (which isn't actually bad; I just feel it disrupts the program). If you like Dave Douglas's Charms of the Night Sky, you'll want to get this one.

• Mark Dresser: Banquet — Where else can you hear a composition for clarinet, cello, and tuba? This might be considered a "classical" disc, but there's also room for improvisation, so ... forget genres like a good listener should!

• Ben Goldgerg: What Comes Before — The all-time favorite album of our old friend Nathan (from BNBB days). A moody album comprised of clarinet, guitar, and drums. Though it may take some patience to "get" (at least it did for me), this is definitely one to try out.

• John Zorn: The String Quartets — Do you like Elliott Carter? Do you like Beethoven? Do you like cartoon music? If your answer is yes to the proceeding, you may very well like this disc. It comes complete with a Mothers-Approved cover.

I'll also second (or third) the recommendations for the Tim Sparks discs. His first disc on Tzadik is a beauty. And ... one more recommendation, which isn't on Tzadik, but could be:

• Assif Tsahar: The Hollow World (Hopscotch) — Do you like Ascension? If you do, no further questions. You'll want to pick this one up eventually.

[.:.impossible]

Seven over Eight, your avatar looks like a Tzadik cover. Which album is that?

Nathan also used to recommend to me ERIK FRIEDLANDER GRAINS OF PARADISE.

I still haven't picked it up! He was also a fan of JAMIE SAFT. SOVLANUT and BREADCRUMB SINS

Late,

How would you compare Ben Goldgerg: What Comes Before with JUNK GENIUS GHOST OF ELECTRICITY? Nathan turned me onto some great music, that's for sure!

Edited October 3, 2003 by impossible

[Seven Over Eight]

Its actually a non-jazz Tzadik cover. Ive gone nuts over this label. I've got about 50 discs, and this is from one of my favorite groups represented.

Ruins - Symphonica

Glad to see the interaction here, this will help me and I hope to be a help to you all as well.

edit: Usually Allmusic does a good job with record reviews, but I guess they didn't like this one. I think the band, Ruins, and this album, are absolutely mindblowing. Disregard AMG and trust me on this one, seriously. If you're into complexity, chaos, and fusion/prog music, you'd dig this album.

Edited October 3, 2003 by Seven Over Eight

[Late]

Impossible,

I actually like Ghost of Electricity a bit more than What Comes Before, but both are fine albums. The latter album is more subdued (or possibly more "serene") than the former, but nevertheless without its own form of tension. If you have the Junk Genius disc already and like it, you probably won't have any problems with What Comes Before. If you don't dig the Junk Genius disc, there's still a possibility that you'll like What Comes Before.

Hope that helps some!

Late

[Hackensack]

I like to sample stuff from this label when I'm feeling adventurous. My experience is hit or miss, but the hits are fantastic. The non-Zorn CDs I love include:

Steven Bernstein's Diaspora Soul - with all the beautifully recorded afro-cuban percussion it reminds me of some old stereo test records, for which it is also well-suited. I think I heard somewhere that this in one of Tzadik's best-sellers. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A8d87gjur26ib

Rabbinical School Dropouts: Cosmic Tree. Fascinating arrangements. Try toy piano, oboe, and tabla on one track.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A2266mpmj9f2o

Paul Brody's Sadawi: Kabbalah Dream. This is a German klezmer band that is stretching at all the seams, for example, in addition to the magnificant trumpt and clarinet playing there's a lot of fuzz guitar. It's more like klezmer goes downtown rather than the usual downtown goes klezmer.

For something different, I really like Fima Ephron's Soul Machine, which is more of a fusion-type thing. To steal a quote form AMG: This is a movement-oriented record, this is not an avant-garde record. It uses prog rock and fusion to extend its inspiration and it does so with great taste, precision, and even humor. And my man Jim Black in the drum chair.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Aopkvu3y0an2k

And the Paul Shapiro is on my "to buy" list.

For purchasing overseas, you might try CDUniverse. Most are $13.69 and shipping to Western Europe is $6.99 for 1 item plus $1.50 for each addition, i.e. $10 for 3.

[WD45]

I have enjoyed Derek Bailey's Ballads album a number of times on Tzadik.

Also Marty Ehrlich's Dark Woods Ensemble recording "Soujourn" is great. Mark Helias on bass, Erik Freidlander on 'cello, Marc Ribot guesting on guitar for a couple of cuts, and the distinctive clarinet and soprano sax of Ehrlich. A fine record.

[.:.impossible]

Some great recommendations coming to the surface on this thread. Thanks for the info Late. I am a huge fan of GHOST OF ELECTRICITY. I will have to check out WHAT COMES BEFORE. Thank you for the follow-up.

I have to ask, as this one has been on my mind for some time. Does anyone have any opinion on:

Pierre-Yves Mace: Faux-Jumeaux

Herve Trovel: marimba

Valerie Kajelnikov: harp

Ingrid Kuntzmann: cello

Pierre-Yves Mace: vibraphone, samples, piano, treatments, glockenspiel, marimbas

Luc Leroy: cymbals, gongs, bells, chimes, vibraphone, marimba

Yann Mace: cymbals, gongs, bells, chimes, marimba editing

Arthur Gordon: cymbals, gongs, bells, chimes

Sylvain Kassap: clarinets, soprano saxophone, bass clarinet

Dan Warburton: piano

Stephanie Chatet: flute

From TZADIK:

Four startling studio compositions by an extraordinary young French composer. Born in 1980, Pierre Yves-Macé began as an improviser, played in jazz-rock prog bands, studied classically, accompanied dance classes and has composed electronic music for theater, dance and the martial arts. Faux-Jumeaux, his first CD release, brings the aesthetics of French romanticism into a head-on collision with sampling technology, electro-acoustics and minimalism. A lyrical, adventurous mix of styles and sounds, this is an astounding debut recording by a strange and wonderful new musical mind.

Sounds interesting!

[.:.impossible]

I am going to order this. I will let everyone know what I think of it.

From AMG, Thom Yurek:

Pierre Yves-Mace is a remarkably young (born in 1980) French composer. Faux-Jumeaux is his first release, though he has been on the scene for sometime as pro-rock improviser, and as the composer of many works for theater and film. All of Mace's works are for small ensembles that employ myriad percussion instruments -- vibes, cymbals, gongs, chimes, etc., as well as harp, flute, saxophones, and pianos. The first offering here, "Evocation," is based on the notion of distorting acoustics sounds that, by their very nature, are distorted anyway. Here a harp floats above a trio of gongs and chimes, bells and vibes before being run through a sampler and mirrored back on themselves in sometimes actual,, sometimes random, sequence. The dynamic range is spectacular in that as the more structurally beautiful sounds interact with the sampler, they can explode into fits of near chaos, but never become harsh or cold. On "Defense de Voir Au-dedans," Mace employs a cello to very gradually ease the work in, lulling the listener into its spare but rich tapestry of colors; three-fourths of the way through, a rupture happens, boring out the cello's heretofore necessary appearance and replacing it with dissonance, fragments of structure, and seemingly free improvisation. The piece picks its way through again and changes with the help of the marimba, flute, and piano, and moves into the margins once more, where sound and silence entwine, adroitly offering space, texture, and serenity, despite the tag ends of each measure. This is a very auspicious debut by somebody who knows what it is he wants and pleases us to no end.

[Seven Over Eight]

Pierre-Yves Mace: Faux-Jumeaux

I've heard a bit of it from samples, but I was definitely interested to hear more. I'm a big fan of Debussy and his beautiful tonescapes, so as of right now I'm putting this one on the list for the next time I'm in a Tzadik mode. I think you won't be disappointed, Impossible. It sounded great to me.

Annie Gosfield also, the Flying Sparks and Heavy Machinery cd description sounded like something I'd really like to check out. I happened upon a quicktime video of "Shoot the Player Piano" by Gosfield a few months back, quite cool:

Annie Gosfield - Shoot the Player Piano

-scroll down a bit and you'll see her name under the video streams heading. This is an excellent website, by the way. I totally enjoyed their streaming radio (while we still had that capability at work). Great stuff going on there.

Also on my want list:

Milton Babbitt: Occasional Variations - Just learned about him from a book I'm reading on electronic music, copyright 1975.

John Zorn: Chimeras

David Shea - Classical Works II - I have his Hsi-Yu Chi, and that's a great recording. Other things from him I've heard on college radio, and everything has been quite good, well-layered and thought provoking.

Great recommendations all, thanks.

Edited October 5, 2003 by Seven Over Eight

[Seven Over Eight]

For something different, I really like Fima Ephron's Soul Machine, which is more of a fusion-type thing.  To steal a quote form AMG: This is a movement-oriented record, this is not an avant-garde record. It uses prog rock and fusion to extend its inspiration and it does so with great taste, precision, and even humor.  And my man Jim Black in the drum chair.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Aopkvu3y0an2k

Totally interested in this now.