Man with the Golden Arm Posted October 1, 2003 Report Posted October 1, 2003 hh, I e-mailed yestersday as well so well see if there is some action. Too bad our man with the speed dial to MC left the board. Quote
hutch head Posted October 1, 2003 Report Posted October 1, 2003 I just received a reply from MC: "The distortion on THE ROCK comes from damage and missing oxide on the original tape." Great! Quote
Man with the Golden Arm Posted October 1, 2003 Report Posted October 1, 2003 good one MC. guess they forgot to put that one in the liner notes. the one they single out for distortion is "Dirty Fingers" which sounds like it's supposed to be there. Such a shame they didn't have the technology to splice up a good sounding segment courtesy of Japan. I suppose the new JRVG i see has this as well? Quote
BFS Posted October 1, 2003 Report Posted October 1, 2003 "I'm listening right now to the TOCJ, and there is no problem with The Rock." OK, so are they going to make it right? Quote
davef Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 Yeah that distortion is nasty! Glad I kept my TOJC of The Way I Feel. But this set is still worth it to me for That Certain Feeling alone - essentially I paid $44 for that album. Which is nowhere near my top price to buy a CD. Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 This brings up a real problem for me. Now I know that all this endless remastering (not to mention repeated FedExing of these tapes) is taking a toll on the original tapes. To know that "The Rock" is forever screwed pisses me off. Quote
David Ayers Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 Mosaic offer a no-quibble guarantee. Why not cut your losses and send the sets back? Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 Mosaic offer a no-quibble guarantee. Why not cut your losses and send the sets back? It's not Mosaic's fault that the tapes have been ruined. That's that. It's sad that whoever's responsible for the master tapes of the great Blue Note sessions has/is not transferring these tapes one time to a permanent digital storage medium and leaving the tapes alone after that. Instead they transfer them for a TOCJ. Transfer them again for a JRVG. Transfer them again for a domestic RVG. Transfer them again for a Box Set. You get the picture. With each new transfer, those tapes are threaded on a machine and played, rewound, ect. Not to mention the shipping via Fed Ex, climate changes during shipping. And with 40 year old tape, it doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination to see dropouts happening, tape stretching, breaking..... I guess I'm as guilty as anyone for buying these constantly remastered editions. But since Blue Note doesn't seem interested in going beyond the ordinary to preserve these tapes, I think we all need to reconsider how we're contributing to the problem of constant reissues destroying the masters. Also, the TOCJ version of "The Way I Feel" sounded great. Clean, clear. This version isn't as full of life. Why not just use the TOCJ transfer? The constant call to put "newly remastered" on some of these mosaics seems silly wihen nice transfers exist. Quote
David Ayers Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 The TOCJ of The Way I Feel seems to be still in print. I fully understand that tape deteriorate. I am just reminding people that if they are not satisfied they may return the set. I didn't order it and and don't have a view either way. Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 The TOCJ of The Way I Feel is still available. However, That Certain Feeling is not available on CD. So, in order to have that, you must by the Patton Select. Quote
David Ayers Posted October 2, 2003 Report Posted October 2, 2003 Maybe they could get Patton to re-record the offending tracks? Quote
BFS Posted October 3, 2003 Report Posted October 3, 2003 Mosaic offer a no-quibble guarantee. Why not cut your losses and send the sets back? True enough, I'm sending mine back. Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 3, 2003 Report Posted October 3, 2003 Maybe they could get Patton to re-record the offending tracks? Maybe so. But it would be hard now that he's dead. Quote
Jazzdog Posted October 3, 2003 Report Posted October 3, 2003 This totally sucks guys. Here I was on the fence but now I am plainly off it. If they manage to recall the disks and fix them, then I should check it out, but until then.... Quote
Soulstation1 Posted October 3, 2003 Report Posted October 3, 2003 maybe mosaic should mark 50% off the set for the 15 second screw-up go grab a beer or run the sweeper when that song starts. viva big john Quote
Jazzdog Posted October 3, 2003 Report Posted October 3, 2003 I mean...how bad could it really be? Quote
paul secor Posted October 5, 2003 Report Posted October 5, 2003 Makes you wonder if anyone (especially the mastering engineer and reissuing producer) listens to these things before they're issued. I'm reminded of an interview I read with Steve Hoffman. He said that one big difference between what he does and what's issued by most record labels is that he has the time to do it right, whereas the average engineer has to crank the issues out. Hoffman has good ears, but having enough time no doubt helps. This fiasco does Mosaic's reputation no good. If someone had taken the time to listen, they could have used a previous issue of The Way I Feel and this screwup could have been avoided. Quote
Ed S Posted October 5, 2003 Report Posted October 5, 2003 I wish I knew more about the process of remastering and reissuing material and how licensing arrangements work so that I could determine whether Mosaic had other options for transfers for this set or whether they were just sloppy. I don't have any idea how the leasing of material goes. By leasing the material from EMI does Mosaic have the right to use a designated set of tapes or do they have have the rights to use all remasters that were ever done and pick the best one. I suspect its the former. Can they just go and use the TOCJ remastering of this song? Where are those remasters anyways - are they property of EMI? Are they property of Toshiba and is Toshiba an arm of EMI? I guess I'm showing my ignorance of the whole Japanese thing because I have no idea and would guess that control of those TOCJ remasters would be problematic in using them for a Mosaic set. In my mind,though, Mosaic has made its reputation on being a customer service oriented company. I suspect that if the problem was their fault, they will re-press the disc using the appropriate source material and correct the problem. I know you all have the right to complain about this problem and respect that as consumers you have the right to expect a perfect product. Me? I am so very glad that I do not make issues like this a priority and that I can enjoy the music - flaws and all. Makes my life a whole lot simpler. I'm going to buy the set and follow the "go to the fridge for a beer" recommendation. Sounds like a reasonable plan to me. B) Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 5, 2003 Report Posted October 5, 2003 As I understand it, we are talking about 15 seconds on 3 well filled cds. Is that correct? I can understand being momentarily bummed, but all this! Quote
BFrank Posted October 5, 2003 Report Posted October 5, 2003 As I understand it, we are talking about 15 seconds on 3 well filled cds. Is that correct? I can understand being momentarily bummed, but all this! My thoughts exactly. Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 6, 2003 Report Posted October 6, 2003 The reason I'm bummed is because the master tape now has a 15 second segment of music that is now virtually ruined. To most this isn't a big deal. But hey, as silly as it might seem to you...."The Way I Feel" is MY "Love Supreme." If the jazz community at large found out that the tapes from "A Love Supreme" had be compromised from the remastering process. I think a more than a few would be upset. I've got the TOCJ. And I urge everyone to buy the Patton set. It's a great set, and yes that 15 seconds isn't going to be worth missing 5 albums worth of great material for. THAT would be ridiculous. It just hurts me to think that some of this music is being lost for eternity. "The Rock" is a great tune with a POWERFUL intro....that is now gone. Bummer. Quote
Bluerein Posted October 6, 2003 Report Posted October 6, 2003 I agree with Soul Stream especially since there's a better tape out there in Japan which could have been used. I'll buy the set as well (and keep the TOCJ of course) but it's a pitty MC didn't look into this before releasing it (I've mailed him about it and he was surprised this tape did excist). Cheers, Reinier Quote
andybleaden Posted October 6, 2003 Report Posted October 6, 2003 I have to admit that it does sound like a real pain. I have the Tocj after selling the vinyl and it sounds great. If you guys do not get anywhere with Mosaic on this let me know and I will sort out a nicer sounder copy ( although I cannot understand why they cannot do this themselves!!) See how you get on with this and let me know if I can help as The Way I Feel is a great session and it is a bummer if the tape has been ruined. Andy Quote
BFS Posted October 6, 2003 Report Posted October 6, 2003 Per Mosaic replacing the first disc with a cleaned up "The Rock": "No, the bulk of the sets are pressed. Apparently a Japanese CD exists that was made from a tape in better condition, but that wasn't known at the time." Quote
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