Charles Gayle

[David Ayers]

Oh, and clifford, that sucks about the editors downgrading your rating!

Understandable though against the background of grade inflation in the reviewing industry in general. No disrespect, but we all know that reviewers get a little, uh, enthuasiastic and I dare say editors are wary of seeming to hype just everything that comes along.

[AllenLowe]

the problem is that it's not really an edit - it changes the whole meaning of his review, I think.

[David Ayers]

Fortunately its on Spotters so we can all make up our own minds

[David Ayers]

Poor Emma Andrews though. Every ten or fifteen minutes she goes to vote, but she can't. She didn't register to vote! At least on UK Spotify she didn't. Talk about lessons unlearned.

[clifford_thornton]

the problem is that it's not really an edit - it changes the whole meaning of his review, I think.

Yes, thanks Allen.

[king ubu]

Oh, and clifford, that sucks about the editors downgrading your rating!

Understandable though against the background of grade inflation in the reviewing industry in general. No disrespect, but we all know that reviewers get a little, uh, enthuasiastic and I dare say editors are wary of seeming to hype just everything that comes along.

On the other hand, if no one ever got enthusiastic any more, we'd be extinct pretty soon (might be a good thing though*, all things considered...)

*) was there ever a Blakeyley album by that title btw? and will they ever get to Gaylayle, too? or will the world have gone undder before?

[David Ayers]

Oh, and clifford, that sucks about the editors downgrading your rating!

Understandable though against the background of grade inflation in the reviewing industry in general. No disrespect, but we all know that reviewers get a little, uh, enthuasiastic and I dare say editors are wary of seeming to hype just everything that comes along.

On the other hand, if no one ever got enthusiastic any more, we'd be extinct pretty soon (might be a good thing though*, all things considered...)

*) was there ever a Blakeyley album by that title btw? and will they ever get to Gaylayle, too? or will the world have gone undder before?

Yeah I agree with you - I used to be annoyed by reviewers gushing over everything but at least they care! I do know that review magazines get letters if their reviewers always give five stars.

[JSngry]

It's the guys that are always enthusiastic (or objective, or...always anything, really) that I don't trust.They're just writing to be writing (or to get free CDs).

[CraigP]

I simply don't "get" Gayle, just as I don't get Kidd Jordan (I get him even less than I get Gayle). And I'm by no means averse to energy playing. I love Ayler, love Pharoah Sanders at his most extreme (e.g. Izipho Zam, Preview (with JCO)), like David S. Ware & Sabir Mateen, and I cut my teeth at Studio Rivbea. Still, I can understand the allure of Gayle much more than the allure of Jordan, who seems to play at one level of extremity at all times (I've seen him 3 times I think).

I'm worn out on a lot of the energy players, and to Allen's point it becomes as much of a pre-determined style as any other rote style of playing. I do like David S. Ware in small doses, and Assif Tsahar. Whatever happened to him, BTW?

[Pete C]

I liked seeing Ivo Perelman live because his playing rattled my skeleton (plus it was the last time I got to see Wilber Morris), but I can't listen to him on disc.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Pete C

[clifford_thornton]

IDK, I tend to not review stuff that I hate because to me, it's a waste of time/energy. I'd rather review stuff I either like, is fine, respectable/interesting, or is great.

Believe me, my shelves are full as is my schedule so if it doesn't move or intrigue me in some way, the review should be left to someone for whom the music works.

[Pete C]

I'd say that it makes sense to review a disappointing effort by an artist you usually like, as you'd have a good working perspective. But I agree that if you just don't connect with an artist it makes sense to leave the reviewing to those who can meet the music on its own terms.

[ep1str0phy]

I'm of the mind these days that energy music serves more of a social function than a strictly aesthetic one. I say this with regard to both the "living masters" of the form--Gayle, Kidd, Arthur Doyle, etc.--and the legions of stylists who have both adopted this musical sensibility and pursued it wholesale.

I've enjoyed most of the masters on record, but like many of you folks I've had a stronger emotional reaction/connection to what live performances I've seen. I was at Guelph a couple years back when Kidd played this unrelenting, multi-climactic quartet set with Joel Futterman, Alvin Fielder, and a bass player whose name escapes me at the moment, and the energy both in the room and onstage was closer to a blues or rock venue than any sort of concert music situation I can recall. Kidd's three or four curtain calls were gauche in a buttoned-down "art improv" sense but totally appropriate for a soul/R&B revue. Come to think of it, I've had similar experiences with a number of great honking tenors, not all of them immediately associated with the post-Ayler school (Pharoah Sanders and Billy Harper come to mind). I think this sort of live context is some sort of modern transmogrification of the R&B barwalking of old--a loud, emotional, ecstatic situation that kind of encourages vocal contributions from the audience. That music would not have sounded the same were it not for the music off the stage, in other words.

I love Gayle's Trane record and I've enjoyed plenty of his music on record, but the first on I heard (and probably still my favorite) is Repent--go figure, because the title track is like 50 minutes long. I've found that I most enjoy recordings by the American energy schools--whether we're talking about Gayle, Alabama Feeling, Black Beings, Frank Wright, or whomever--when they're (a) reaching for subtleties outside of the energy idiom (i.e., Wright's more reflective, condensed albums like Your Prayer) or (b) pretty much attempting to replicate the live experience.

On the other hand--and this speaks more to what I mean by stylists, above--the actual, quantifiable technical content of energy music (insofar as you can examine that stuff in the way you do Coltrane changes or bebop phrasing) is as bankrupt or not bankrupt as any other idiom--which is to say that, outside of the live context where history, charisma, and power can get you over--and especially in situations where the music can/does get reduced to analysis and dissection--the music can be pretty damn abysmal. Music in a strict post-Ayler/post-Brotzmann mode is physically demanding but technically limiting (there's just too much you can't do at at unrelieved high volumes with high density), often deafeningly loud, and (sad to say) easily masks technical limitations. Even when the music is exhilarating and fun to play/listen to, there's no avoiding these facts--and I'll go a little bit further than Allen and say that the corners that energy music has painted itself into are more or less built into the basic principles of the genre.

Like David mentioned in the Glasper thread, genre is a question determined at least in part by audience, and the issue is that (as was/is the case with bebop) the minute we've either codified a style or turned a method of playing into something to be revered, that style loses some of its actual flexibility. None of this means that energy players are strictly prohibited from playing quiet, sparse, etc.--it just means that, in practice, because Ayler, Brotz, Wright, etc. did it one way, the everyday adherents of the music aren't expected to produce resourceful and innovative solutions to the problems of the music. I can't count how many gigs I've played where it's been clearly too damn loud and both the band (probably not me, since I'm bitching about it) and the audience were absolutely fine with that--if only because the music was faithful to the aesthetics of the idiom.

[Pete C]

None of this means that energy players are strictly prohibited from playing quiet, sparse, etc.--it just means that, in practice, because Ayler, Brotz, Wright, etc. did it one way, the everyday adherents of the music aren't expected to produce resourceful and innovative solutions to the problems of the music. I can't count how many gigs I've played where it's been clearly too damn loud and both the band (probably not me, since I'm bitching about it) and the audience were absolutely fine with that--if only because the music was faithful to the aesthetics of the idiom.

Interesting take. I think an alternative model can be drawn from Shepp's '60 live recordings (Donaueschingen & San Francisco), which modulate all-out free blowing with melodic balladry. While I'm sure the live experience was at another level, the recordings have never disappointed after years of listening. Even Ayler, at Fondation Maeght, was leaning somewhat in this direction.

[Pete C]

Non-existent Ayler DVD gets 5* review on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Albert-Ayler-Maeght-Foundation-DVD/dp/B00069MOLS

[JETman]

Non-existent Ayler DVD gets 5* review on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Albert-Ayler-Maeght-Foundation-DVD/dp/B00069MOLS

That's funny! Probably from a guy who has written thousands of reviews on Amazon, and just couldn't help himself.

[David Ayers]

I'm of the mind these days that energy music serves more of a social function than a strictly aesthetic one. I say this with regard to both the "living masters" of the form--Gayle, Kidd, Arthur Doyle, etc.--and the legions of stylists who have both adopted this musical sensibility and pursued it wholesale.

Great post. I was planning to say something similar but yours is much better! There's a difference between energy music and free improv, and between both of those overlapping practices and any form of jazz, but there is reason to see all of those things as practices. In the case of energy music it is the most apparent, where the collected recordings of the typical energy musician are hardly an oeuvre, and the latest recording is hardly an opus.

I've got more ideas on this but I haven't finished organizing them...

[MomsMobley]

Gayle is a superior musician, damn near Brucknerian on his tenor blowouts (to name another giant mocked for supposed gaucheries and hey, ALL the FMP dates are great), a terrific, individual pianist, the fiddle jams rule and Gayle has elevated EVERY sideman session I've heard him on: Cecil, the Wiliam Parker "Requiem" bass 4-tet, Sirone etc.

Granted, the cloudy backstory; the corny Jeff Schlanger and sloppy Steve Dalachinsky 'tributes'; the twice born evangelism distract but moment to moment, year to year, Gayle has repeatedly proven himself and his discography >>>>> going balls deep in lotsa other gopher holes.

Wish list: Gayle sessions with Adam Rudolph, Anthony Braxton, Allen Lowe, George Lewis, Dom Flemons; the ghosts of Yusef Lateef, Jaki Byard, Herman Chittison, Baby Dodds, Jaybird Coleman.

There's a great article on Gayle in the current (April) issue of The Wire - and his new album is da shit, as dey say:



Guess this will easily be my album of the year!
Highly focused, burningly intense, honest and straight from the heart no bullshit music.

Edited May 23, 2014 by MomsMobley

[Leeway]

I saw Charles Gayle live before I heard any of his CDs. If you can, see him live. Gayle is riveting.

Just as day follows night, and Gayle follows Charles, "Fiery" follows Gayle.

Dictionary: Fiery: consisting of fire or burning strongly and brightly; having a passionate, quick-tempered nature; having or showing a lot of strong and angry emotion.

Charles Gayle is fiery. Like the street minister he is or was, this is fire and brimstone, sin and repentance, the days of judgment compressed into an 8 or 10 or 15 minute songs. This is 20 years of living homeless on the streets (someone spoke of a "cloudy" backstory, this is part of it) expressed through the saxophone, piano or bass (although it is the first and perhaps second of them that pulls me in). This is the spirit of the revival tent.

If you want "standards(!)" expressed with nuance and neat turns of phrase, um, might try someone else.

[clifford_thornton]

I'm interviewing him this week & looking forward to it. I've certainly come around.

Don't know about him being "better" than Frank Wright, Glenn Spearman, Doyle or Ware (tho yes, Ware could be cold and chops-y, the earlier and later work is what I get behind most), but he's fantastic. Each of those players is or was a very special musician.

Edited May 1, 2014 by clifford_thornton

[Homefromtheforest]

I saw him live in 1993...amazing show. Provoked such a reaction...when he started to preach a bunch of so-called "open minded" hipsters got out of their seats and stormed out of the venue.

That was the second batch of people who left. The first batch vacated their seats as soon as Gayle started to play. It was a free show so I think many people present had no idea what they were going to hear.

Ill never forget it!

Edited May 1, 2014 by Homefromtheforest

[paul secor]

Gayle is a superior musician, damn near Brucknerian on his tenor blowouts (to name another giant mocked for supposed gaucheries and hey, ALL the FMP dates are great), a terrific, individual pianist, the fiddle jams rule and Gayle has elevated EVERY sideman session I've heard him on: Cecil, the Wiliam Parker "Requiem" bass 4-tet, Sirone etc.

Wish list: Gayle sessions with Adam Rudolph, Anthony Braxton, Allen Lowe, George Lewis, Dom Flemons; the ghosts of Yusef Lateef, Jaki Byard, Herman Chittison, Baby Dodds, Jaybird Coleman.

Perhaps even better than Jaybird Coleman - Alfred Lewis. To channel Walt Frazier: That might be frightening and enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dO__IuDr-o

Edited May 1, 2014 by paul secor

[MomsMobley]

I'm interviewing him this week & looking forward to it. I've certainly come around.

Don't know about him being "better" than Frank Wright, Glenn Spearman, Doyle or Ware (tho yes, Ware could be cold and chops-y, the earlier and later work is what I get behind most), but he's fantastic. Each of those players is or was a very special musician.

I will acknowledge, upon further reflection, that Frank Wright "Uhuru" is an excellent side-- Art Taylor!-- and that, suprisingly, Ware "Onecept" is very strong, just a trio with Parker & Warren Smith.

Malik/Spearman on FMP and Eremite are also laudable, just gotta have your Bubber Miley hat on!

Edited May 23, 2014 by MomsMobley

[MomsMobley]

with... Christian McBride et al

with... Marc Ribot, other clips have Gayle on bass, Marc on electric & acoustic except you can't see Gayle, just edge of bull fiddle now & then

[colinmce]

I lucked into copies of two FMPs recently-- Berlin Movement For Future Years and Abiding Variations. Listening to the former my first though was "what's the point, really? Is there a point to this?" but as the CD went on I began to hear something in it, it began to hold together. So I think immersion in his longer, fiery improvisations is required to get the gist. I have no doubt there's something technical happening there, but perhaps his music is the greatest embodiment of Ayler's ideas about this music being more about sound and shape than notes and harmony (I can't track down the quote-- and I think it may have been Donald, actually, who said this). Also, Michael Wimberly and Vattel Cherry are kind of weird, insular players. A very unique group when you listen hard.

Edited November 9, 2014 by colinmce