Charles Gayle

[clifford_thornton]

Nice to see you posting again, HB. Keep it up.

[randyhersom]

Dug out Touchin' on 'Trane for a re-listen, it's one of two highly regarded FMPs that had yet to register with me (Peter Kowald - Was Da Ist being the other). I felt the music was randomized and out of Gayle's control on previous listens. Well it seems to be growing on me some, I started hearing ideas and interplay and a bit more of the Trane connection. I still somewhat prefer James Finn, (not to mention late Trane) but I'm beginning to appreciate the guy. Rashied Ali and William Parker are smokin', which helps a lot.

In general I backed way off the jazz Avant Garde for several years, and have gradually been re-loosening my ears.

[stuartjewkes]

I've listened to Repent once and to be honest it did very little for me. Lots of hot air without anything genuinely interesting. I might give it another spin and reasses but as it is I have no interest in investigating further.

[AndrewHill]

Touchin' on Trane is OOP as an FMP disc, but Jazzwerkstatt has reissued it in the past month or so.

Is it really? Thanks for the heads up! I know a store that has it in stock-I'll have it by Thursday

Picked up Touchin' on Trane today (the FMP edition) and wow! What an album! This one is way better than Kingdom Come (the only other Gayle I own) and that's not to say that KC is a bad album, its just that this one is in a different league and Parker and Ali play their asses off; their playing literally keeps you on edge.

BTW, the place I picked up Tn' on T has a slew of Gayles in their bin. They have a Silkheart from which I understand is a label long, long gone and other FMP's. They even have a disk where Gayle is wearing the clown getup on the cover!

Any further recommendations on the other FMP's/Silkhearts or should I just stop here

Edited March 28, 2008 by Holy Ghost

[David Gitin]

[quote name='paul secor' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:06 PM' post='763544'

I may have heard Gayle in Buffalo in early 1968. I went to a concert where a saxophonist with a wild uncontrolled sound and style played. Didn't catch a name, but it may well have been Charles Gayle.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, Buell spoke of that one when I interviewed him.

He also mentioned working with Andrew White around that time.

HG, I think you should still be able to get Silkheart CDs from places like Birka Jazz or other Scandinavian online shops. Jazz Loft and Northcountry also get 'em in as overstock from time to time. The Gayles are solid enough. There's also some great records by Dennis Gonzalez, Steve Lacy and Alvin Fielder on the label. You should dig in deep!

[AndrewHill]

HG, I think you should still be able to get Silkheart CDs from places like Birka Jazz or other Scandinavian online shops. Jazz Loft and Northcountry also get 'em in as overstock from time to time. The Gayles are solid enough. There's also some great records by Dennis Gonzalez, Steve Lacy and Alvin Fielder on the label. You should dig in deep!

Cool. Thanks Clifford. I'm glad to hear that there's places to still get'em.

[Nate Dorward]

Kingdom Come is pretty so-so, agreed (that's the one with Sunny Murray, right?). I haven't really checked out much Gayle outside of Touchin on Trane because that one always seemed SO MUCH better than the other Gayle I've heard. (But as I said, DO check out that solo piano disc on Tompkins Square. Much better than the piano tracks on Kingdom Come would make you think.)

Caught him playing material from T on T live with Ali + Wilber Morris in the 1990s--great stuff.

Edited March 28, 2008 by Nate Dorward

[AndrewHill]

Kingdom Come is pretty so-so, agreed (that's the one with Sunny Murray, right?). I haven't really checked out much Gayle outside of Touchin on Trane because that one always seemed SO MUCH better than the other Gayle I've heard. (But as I said, DO check out that solo piano disc on Tompkins Square. Much better than the piano tracks on Kingdom Come would make you think.)

Caught him playing material from T on T live with Ali + Wilber Morris in the 1990s--great stuff.

Thank you Nate, I will keep my eyes peeled for Tompkins Square disk. Yes, KC has Sunny Murray and Wm Parker on it, who play great. It was Gayle that sort of let things down, mostly with the drab piano noodlings.

[paul secor]

Gayle's first gig, coming up from Fredonia, in Buffalo was a trio with Buell Neidlinger (responsible for the gig) and John Bergamo on drums. I was at that one, but it was at least two years before the date you list.

David - The gig I was at was a different one - early '68, and Neidlinger and Bergamo weren't on it. As I say, I don't know for sure that the saxophonist I heard was Charles Gayle - just making an educated guess.

[king ubu]

There's a great article on Gayle in the current (April) issue of The Wire - and his new album is da shit, as dey say:

Guess this will easily be my album of the year!

Highly focused, burningly intense, honest and straight from the heart no bullshit music.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I like it a lot as well.

My review.

[AllenLowe]

I'm very impressed, btw, by his piano playing.

[JETman]

I tried to get into Gayle back in the early 90s, but his playing just scared the shit out of me. Now that I've had many years to get used to this type of playing, I'll have to give him another listen.

[David Ayers]

If you have heard Gayle, and have maybe bought a CD or two, do you need any more? I struggle with the idea that a CD is a 'work' (expressed earlier in this thread) in cases where the basic practices change little over time. So is there anything new here or is this just the most recent for those who may have the bug to hear a bit more?

[Steve Reynolds]

I won't it make it on the June 17th as I am trying to see bands on 2 or 3 other nights - but this show is @ Roulette in Brooklyn on the last night of Vision Fest this year:

9:30 PM Edward "Kidd" Jordan Quintet

Kidd Jordan alto, Charles Gayle tenor, piano, J.D. Parron, sax

William Parker bass,Hamid Drake drums

[king ubu]

If you have heard Gayle, and have maybe bought a CD or two, do you need any more? I struggle with the idea that a CD is a 'work' (expressed earlier in this thread) in cases where the basic practices change little over time. So is there anything new here or is this just the most recent for those who may have the bug to hear a bit more?

I'd say so... in that it's more settled, with the rhythm section often going into some kind of weird but in the pocket grooves, kind of monk-ish as I hear it. This new disc should not fright anyone away, I think - and yet it's not mellow or easy on the ears or anything. I really like it (and to me, clifford's 4 of 5 rating is rather on the low side, I'd give 4,5 or maybe even the full 5!)

[clifford_thornton]

I rated it 4.5 and they notched it down a half.

Pissed me off. It's a great album.

[Pete C]

I simply don't "get" Gayle, just as I don't get Kidd Jordan (I get him even less than I get Gayle). And I'm by no means averse to energy playing. I love Ayler, love Pharoah Sanders at his most extreme (e.g. Izipho Zam, Preview (with JCO)), like David S. Ware & Sabir Mateen, and I cut my teeth at Studio Rivbea. Still, I can understand the allure of Gayle much more than the allure of Jordan, who seems to play at one level of extremity at all times (I've seen him 3 times I think).

[clifford_thornton]

Huh. I've seen Kidd in a variety of settings and playing at a variety of levels. Always really enjoy him.

FWIW, "On Fire" (on Engine) is a really nice trio with Harrison Bankhead and Warren Smith that shows a pretty good range of Kidd's playing.

[AllenLowe]

to me, Gayle's got something really special. Just a sound, and a way in that's all his.

[Pete C]

Huh. I've seen Kidd in a variety of settings and playing at a variety of levels. Always really enjoy him.

First time I saw him was at Jazzfest. Even though I didn't like Kidd, and liked Joel Futterman even less, I was blown away by Alvin Fielder and especially Clyde Kerr. I think William Parker might have been on bass, but not sure. I also saw him at least once with Fred Anderson at Vision. I don't remember any real range of dynamics or use of space, just blowing his brains out.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I'll add that I don't like Brotzmann either.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Pete C

[AllenLowe]

I have a feeling Pete C and I would agree on may things, and in the past I have annoyed people with some of my criticisms of open jazz improvisation, which I think has painted itself into some of the same corners as bebop and other forms. However, I like Gayle, as I said. I also believe that all jazz musicians should, by statute, keep their performances to no longer than 5 minutes unless the audiences is extremely stoned or very drunk. Remember the Minutemen?

[king ubu]

I also believe that all jazz musicians should, by statute, keep their performances to no longer than 5 minutes unless the audiences is extremely stoned or very drunk.

That's why you throwin' a 3CD set at us?

(A great one, btw - thanks!)

You're right about Gayle's sound, I think. It comes though beautifully on the new disc, in the sparse setting with just bass, drums, an his glorious tenor (I think that's the perfect setting for hi anyway, but I don't yet know or own too many of his discs).

Oh, and clifford, that sucks about the editors downgrading your rating!

[AllenLowe]

true - however I believe most of the cuts on my CD are in the 3-6 minute range, which is about equal to my attention span -

Edited April 13, 2012 by AllenLowe