Art Pepper

[Joe G]

Jesus! I thought bluenote82's departure would put an end to this kind of nonsense.

[medjuck]

To get back on topic: What cds are most typical of the Trane influenced Pepper? I've seen it most on his Jazz Casual appearance but there aren't many cds from that era except with the Buddy rich band. The Trip, perhaps?

Edited March 8, 2008 by medjuck

[danasgoodstuff]

I think the Village vanguard recordings would be up there in Traness, and not just because of the setting and Elvin's presence. There are boots of performances from club dates during the lost years that are interesting if you can find a way to hear them without paying the theives...

[marcello]

To get back on topic: What cds are most typical of the Trane influenced Pepper? I've seen it most on his Jazz Casual appearance but there aren't many cds from that era except with the Buddy rich band. The Trip, perhaps?

Try this one. Mine is on Fresh Sounds:

[paul secor]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

I agree with you on this one, you need to "do other things". don't respond to my posts.............,plain and simple chuck, ignore my posts(as anyone can see, I don't spend a lot of time on this site) if you can, but you know you CAN NOT ignore my TRUTHFUL posts can you chuck. so you met pepper and trane "before their deaths" SO F------ WHAT.............."strange situation where I had personal contact with each before their deaths". CHUCK, guess what............we are all going to DIE at some point in time.....whose going to be with you "before your death"......................

This goes WAY over the top.

[mrjazzman]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

I agree with you on this one, you need to "do other things". don't respond to my posts.............,plain and simple chuck, ignore my posts(as anyone can see, I don't spend a lot of time on this site) if you can, but you know you CAN NOT ignore my TRUTHFUL posts can you chuck. so you met pepper and trane "before their deaths" SO F------ WHAT.............."strange situation where I had personal contact with each before their deaths". CHUCK, guess what............we are all going to DIE at some point in time.....whose going to be with you "before your death"......................

You know, I've never noticed your posts before, but you could try being a little less hostile, and more respectful of others?

as I've said and will continue to say, I NEVER start out that way but will ALWAYS respond in kind. And remember, we're using the written form of communication here, it's not like we're having a face to face or phone conversation. A lot gets lost using the written form of communication...........

[AllenLowe]

you make me sound rational - and that's not an easy thing to do -

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but I honestly don't think Pepper ever had a real Coltrane influence - for him, like a few beboppers who never really "got" the Trane technique, it was really just a matter of superficial gesture; for Pepper it was an occasional slur on the horn, a badly placed squall here and there. Don;t mean to sound cruel, and I know I've posted a few times before about this (probably even on this thread); like Chuck I spent a little time with Pepper late in his career (maybe 1976 or 1977); nice guy, with the maturity of a 12 year old, still a brilliant altoist when he put his mind to it, though a certain narcissism seemed, to me, to have taken over his playing at times (listen to the ballads on the Vanguard set); classic junky behavior I must say with regret, in which the dependence seems to produce (and this may be confusing cause and effect) such a deep sense of self-centeredness that even artistic perspective is lost.

Interestingly, as an aside, on the day I met him, in Boston, he had just fired Jaki Byard from his weekend band (I think Jaki's playing was a bit too abstract for him; somewhat ironic given his desire to reach outward musically).

[AllenLowe]

and leave Chuck alone, he's like Monty Burns, will live until at least age 200.

[Joe G]

And remember, we're using the written form of communication here, it's not like we're having a face to face or phone conversation. A lot gets lost using the written form of communication...........

That being the case, why don't you apologize for mis-reading Chuck's initial post? After all, it was you who went "ape-shit", not he.

[medjuck]

To get back on topic: What cds are most typical of the Trane influenced Pepper? I've seen it most on his Jazz Casual appearance but there aren't many cds from that era except with the Buddy rich band. The Trip, perhaps?

Try this one. Mine is on Fresh Sounds:

I'll look for it. The one time I saw Pepper was at Donte's, but that was in the '80s when he was playing with George Cables. Really happy I got to see him perform.

[JSngry]

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but I honestly don't think Pepper ever had a real Coltrane influence - for him, like a few beboppers who never really "got" the Trane technique, it was really just a matter of superficial gesture; for Pepper it was an occasional slur on the horn, a badly placed squall here and there.

What about the increased use of pentatonics and chromatics? That's the part that I think he best "applied back" to his basic style, eventually.

[king ubu]

ok, we discussed it before the stupid intermezzo in page 2 - now I got "The Way It Was" (plus "Smack Up"), finally, and I see that while in contains two alternate takes from the 1956 session, it misses "Avalon", "Warnin'" and "Stompin' at the Savoy" from that date's quintet session. What's the deal with it? So once more I'm glad I did get the pirates' version, too (in this case Lone Hill's "Complete Free Wheelin' Session", which also contains the sextet part of the session with Ted Brown (and Jeff Morton in Gary Frommer's place on drums).

Here's the listing from jazzdisco.org:

Art Pepper (as) Ted Brown, Warne Marsh (ts) Ronnie Ball (p) Ben Tucker (b) Jeff Morton (d)

Los Angeles, CA, November 26, 1956

I Can't Believe That You're In Love With Me Contemporary S 7630

I Can't Believe That You're In Love With Me (alt. take) Contemporary [J] VICJ 23640

All The Things You Are Contemporary S 7630

All The Things You Are (alt. take) Contemporary [J] VICJ 23640

What's New? Contemporary S 7630

Tickle Toe -

Avalon Contemporary [J] VICJ 23640

Warnin' (take 1) -

Warnin' (take 2) -

Stompin' At The Savoy -

Aretha Vanguard VRS 8515

Long Gone -

Once We Were Young -

Foolin' Myself -

Avalon -

On A Slow Boat To China -

Crazy, She Calls Me -

Broadway -

Arrival -

* Art Pepper - ...The Way It Was! (Contemporary S 7630; Fantasy OJC 389, OJCCD 389-2)

* Ted Brown - Free Wheeling (Vanguard VRS 8515)

* Art Pepper With Warne Marsh (Contemporary [J] VICJ 23640)

Why doesn't "The Way It Was", at least in its CD incarnation, include the three missing titles?

[king ubu]

here's a better discographical entry from the Warne Marsh discography:

56-1126 ART PEPPER - WARNE MARSH QUINTET. 'The Way It Was'.

'Contemporary Studio', Los Angeles, CA., November 26, 1956.

Art Pepper, as; Warne Marsh, ts; Ronnie Ball, p; Ben Tucker, b; Gary Frommer, d.

1 I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH ME 5:23

2 I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH ME a.t. 5:33

3 ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE 6:32

4 ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE a.t. 6:26

5 WHAT'S NEW? Marsh out 4:04

6 AVALON 3:50

7 TICKLE TOE 4:50

8 WARNIN', take 1 6:06

9 WARNIN', take 2 5:50

10 STOMPING AT THE SAVOY Marsh out 5:50

1-10 (all) CD ConCar 98.646 : ConJVC VICJ-23640 : ConVic VDJ-1577 : Con S-9001 : Con VDJ-1777 : Con VICJ-0290

1-5,7 CD OJCCD- 389 (has also 3 tracks of other Pepper sessions)

1,3,5,7 R Con GXC-3155 : Con LAX-3131 : Con M-3630 : Con S-7630 : OJC 389

1,5,8 CD Con VDJ-1593

3 or 4 ? CD Prestige PRCD-11010

1,3,5-7,9,10 CD Lone Hill Jazz LHJ-10236 (wrongly as The Complete Free Wheeling Sessions / as from Nov. 26, 1956 See 56-1221).

56-1221 TED BROWN SEXTET. 'Free Wheeling'.

Los Angeles, CA., December 21, 1956.

Art Pepper, as; Ted Brown, ts; Warne Marsh, ts; Ronnie Ball, p; Ben Tucker, b; Jeff Morton, d.

1 ARETHA 4:57

2 LONG GONE 4:48

3 ONCE WE WERE YOUNG omit as 3:48

4 FOOLIN' MYSELF 4:33

5 AVALON 3:04

6 ON A SLOW BOAT TO CHINA omit as 5:17

7 CRAZY SHE CALLS ME omit as 4:17

8 BROADWAY 6:00

9 ARRIVAL 3:48

all R Vanguard GXC-3121 : Vanguard K20P-6183 : Vanguard LAX-3075M : Vanguard SR(M)-3146 : Vanguard VRS-8515

all CD Vanguard 662.089 : Vanguard K32Y-6090 : Lone Hill Jazz - LHJ10236

1 R Vanguard VSD-23049

8 CD Storyville STCD-8314

So the quintet part of this date was never originally issued at all? Or rather, the 70s Contemporary album was the first issue of it?

[B. Goren.]

Happy birthday to Art Pepper who could have been 83 today.

[John L]

By conincidence, I was listening to a lot of Art Pepper today, including the recently released Croydon Concert. That one is really incredible, even in the context of the rather large volume of other live recordings from this period.

[Cliff Englewood]

Happy birthday to Art Pepper who could have been 83 today.

Happy birthday Art, he's one of my favorites and definitely one of the greats, but there was no way he was ever going to make 83, I mean just look at the picture. He looked like death warmed up, as they say, even in the 50's.

[mjzee]

Art was incredible...truly typified spirit over the aging flesh. He always sounded so good! Probably the most consistent jazz artist there was. I always love listening to him.

[AllenLowe]

he didn't look too good, close up - when I met him he opened his shirt to show me where he'd had something or other removed (his spleen? just can't remember) - there was a large indentation -

nice guy, though.

[save0904]

Great Art Pepper documentation Art Pepper: Notes From A Jazz Survivor

Art Pepper: Notes From A Jazz Survivor

[fasstrack]

Great Art Pepper documentation Art Pepper: Notes From A Jazz Survivor

Art Pepper: Notes From A Jazz Survivor

I followed the link. Thanks. I always wanted to see that little film.

The music was good. He always had a natural feel for blues, played pretty much in the moment, took chances, and (not always, but here) built something compositionally. Even the quirky double-time things---that everyone, including the man himself, seems to think is a 'Coltrane influence' but sounds not the least like Trane to my ears ---fit. And they didn't always in this period to me.

But the minute I hear that paranoid, narcissistic (sp?), romantic junkie-outlaw rap I get turned off. Not residing in the man's brain or soul, I don't know how much of this Pepper actually believed or how much was 'legend pimping'. (yeah, I read the book.....many times. I like dark Snickers bars, too.....).

I think I'll stick with the playing. It's the only Art Pepper story really worth hearing.

Edited May 7, 2011 by fasstrack

[Bluesnik]

I prefer the gritter, edgier tone of his later work as opposed to the light, airy sound of his earlier work........

i specially like the first art pepper. all of his 50s material is good. very recommendable is the mosaic select, which has the return, modern art and the art of pepper (which is that omega tapes project) and also surf ride, which i like a lot. though to get that last one you'll have to go japanese because to my knowledge it's not available here.

[GA Russell]

...and also surf ride, which i like a lot. though to get that last one you'll have to go japanese because to my knowledge it's not available here.

Perhaps this is what you're referring to. It's an import which a Marketplace seller has for $10.35.

http://www.amazon.com/Surf-Ride-Art-Pepper/dp/B0042UJW5S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1304965823&sr=1-4

Surf Ride was one of my first purchases from BMG, back in '97.

[John L]

The music of Surf Ride was also released in the US as The Discovery Sessions. It is currently available for download at Amazon:

Discovery Sessions

[tranemonk]

Have to say Laurie's upcoming release in June looks like the best of the Unreleased Art series...!!!! I may have to order a few copies...

http://www.lauriepepper.com/Blues_For_The_Fisherman/The_Album/The_Album.html

[Head Man]

Have to say Laurie's upcoming release in June looks like the best of the Unreleased Art series...!!!! I may have to order a few copies...

http://www.lauriepepper.com/Blues_For_The_Fisherman/The_Album/The_Album.html

Thanks for the heads-up tranemonk. Laurie's interview with Milcho is very interesting

I've always loved 'Blues for The Fisherman'. I saw him play at Ronnie Scott's Club with Milcho Leviev on that tour and bought the album when it was first released, plus the CD when that came out later. It is an absolutely essential buy if you like late-Art and I, for one, will definitely be getting the new 4xCD release when it comes out.