Art Pepper

[mrjazzman]

Yes, but I feel the Trane influence diminished his talents.

sounds like you're saying something negative about trane....................

How the hell could you get this impression?

when you don't elaborate, how the hell could I NOT get that impression.........

Don't have a clue. You must have a problem.

Where is my negative mention of John Coltrane?

If I'd said beef ruin the taste of cherries, would you say I was dissing cherries or beef? Something else is going on in your head,

no, i'd say that is a stupid comparison and check your own head CUZ you're not qualified to get into mine. Go listen to some Lee Konitz, you need something to put you to sleep

[analogak]

jeez why are adults having trouble grasping simple concepts here and understanding each other? i guess it is a language barrier?

[JSngry]

I think we all need to chill out and take a good dump!

[analogak]

yes, take a time out from the computer, sit on the toilet, and explode the days stresses and worries down the drain. imagine you have just eaten an incredibly hot coltrane-influenced chili pepper and it has left you with a seething, bubbling stomach full of heroin brown diahrea.

[mrjazzman]

I think we all need to chill out and take a good dump!

as usual, I agree with you............when chuck sees a post from mrjazzman, he goes ape shit no matter what i'm saying, I NEVER start out with negative writings, but I will always respond in kind........

[mrjazzman]

jeez why are adults having trouble grasping simple concepts here and understanding each other? i guess it is a language barrier?

with me it's a chuck barrier, check his response to my art pepper post..........I always start out civil

[JSngry]

Ok, but I'm with Chuck on this one. I found no implied negativity towards Coltrane in his comment.

Simple misunderstanding/miscommunication, it's Friday, been a rough week, etc etc etc, we all dig Pepper & Trane, so hey. It's all good.

Let's all have a good weekend, because we lose an hour sleep this time, and Monday's gonna be a bitch as a result.

Edited March 8, 2008 by JSngry

[mrjazzman]

Ok, but I'm with Chuck on this one. I found no implied negativity towards Coltrane in his comment.

Simple misunderstanding/miscommunication, it's Friday, been a rough week, etc etc etc, we all dig Pepper & Trane, so hey. It's all good.

Let's all have a good weekend, because we lose an hour sleep this time, and Monday's gonna be a bitch as a result.

'JSngry for president..................

[mrjazzman]

Ok, but I'm with Chuck on this one. I found no implied negativity towards Coltrane in his comment.

Simple misunderstanding/miscommunication, it's Friday, been a rough week, etc etc etc, we all dig Pepper & Trane, so hey. It's all good.

Let's all have a good weekend, because we lose an hour sleep this time, and Monday's gonna be a bitch as a result.

'JSngry for president..................

Be civil CHUCK....................

[Larry Kart]

I think we all need to chill out and take a good dump!

as usual, I agree with you............when chuck sees a post from mrjazzman, he goes ape shit no matter what i'm saying, I NEVER start out with negative writings, but I will always respond in kind........

I'll chill out and take my dump later, but the tone of your initial "sounds like your saying something negative about Trane" post struck me right then and there as negative, as in "How dare you?" Never occurred to me that it was a civil request for further information. Also, no one's going to get anywhere asking Chuck to explain himself most of the time; he's gnomic by temperament and enjoys that.

One of my wife's dear friends, a woman named Outi Kurkijaarvi, a fellow potter who actually lives in the Far North (Finland), makes fantastic, gnarled ceramic gnomes. I have one; they're supposed to bring good luck.

[JSngry]

Ok, but I'm with Chuck on this one. I found no implied negativity towards Coltrane in his comment.

Simple misunderstanding/miscommunication, it's Friday, been a rough week, etc etc etc, we all dig Pepper & Trane, so hey. It's all good.

Let's all have a good weekend, because we lose an hour sleep this time, and Monday's gonna be a bitch as a result.

'JSngry for president..................

Ah, the Cut The Crap Party hears your plea!

[mrjazzman]

jeez why are adults having trouble grasping simple concepts here and understanding each other? i guess it is a language barrier?

ask chuck........

[Joe G]

Let's all have a good weekend, because we lose an hour sleep this time, and Monday's gonna be a bitch as a result.

I'm gonna tell her you said that.

[mrjazzman]

yes, take a time out from the computer, sit on the toilet, and explode the days stresses and worries down the drain. imagine you have just eaten an incredibly hot coltrane-influenced chili pepper and it has left you with a seething, bubbling stomach full of heroin brown diahrea.

I don't do heroin but i get your point..........

[Free For All]

a seething, bubbling stomach full of heroin brown diahrea.

"......and whiskers on kittens......."

[Chuck Nessa]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

[Morganized]

Don't have the time or inclination to elaborate other than to say he'd developed a wonderful identity 25 years before the Coltrane influence and he lost much of the influence later. I really enjoy the Vanguard recordings...

Ah, here we have the crux of the matter! I understand how the earliest days of the Coltrane influence messed w/Pepper, but - eventually he integrated it. Chuck says he "lost much of" it, which may or may not be another way of saying the same thing, but I don't think that Pepper of the mid-70s and beyond (which includes the Vanguard material) was what it was if he hadn't gone through Trane the way he did. In other words, if Pepper had never heard Trane, I don't think that he would have evolved to the point to where he played like he did by the time of those recordings.

No matter, count me as part of the minority (here, anyway) which prefers later Pepper. Similarly, I prefer later Mobley. In both cases, the later work ain't as "pretty" as the earlier, but there's an...immediacy, a feeling that there's no longer a layer of "music" between the music and the emotion, if that makes any sense. Which is not to say that that earlier layer was superfluous, or shallow, or anything like that. Far from it. Just that it seems like in the later work, it was no longer needed, that both players might have felt put upon, perhaps even belabored, to go back and play with that vibe again.

As always, mileages can and will vary.

as usual, you said it better than I could.........

Me too. I think Pepper is pretty great all the way through but I prefer his later stuff for all the reasons cited above.

[mrjazzman]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

[mrjazzman]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

RIGHT, so don't respond to everything you read here....................

[mrjazzman]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

RIGHT, so don't respond to everything you read here....................

especially from me....................

[mrjazzman]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

I agree with you on this one, you need to "do other things". don't respond to my posts.............,plain and simple chuck, ignore my posts(as anyone can see, I don't spend a lot of time on this site) if you can, but you know you CAN NOT ignore my TRUTHFUL posts can you chuck. so you met pepper and trane "before their deaths" SO F------ WHAT.............."strange situation where I had personal contact with each before their deaths". CHUCK, guess what............we are all going to DIE at some point in time.....whose going to be with you "before your death"......................

[king ubu]

My copy of Intensity only has one bonus track, the blues "Five Points". Maybe there's a difference between North American & European issues of the CD?

"Five Points" is the only bonus track on my OJC Intensity, manufactured in Germany.

Sorry for the confusion there - one session had two bonus cuts, I thought that was the "Intensity" one but didn't check again... anyway, "The Way It Was" has bonus material not on other OJCs, that's for sure.

[Aggie87]

I've had enough. Encountered the music of Pepper and Coltrane about 50 years ago on record. My life led me to a strange situation where I had personal contact with each shortly before their deaths. This drivel about my thoughts about "influences" and the consequences lets me know I need to spend a bunch of time doing other things.

so, these experiences make you an expert..........I DON'T think so.....................

I agree with you on this one, you need to "do other things". don't respond to my posts.............,plain and simple chuck, ignore my posts(as anyone can see, I don't spend a lot of time on this site) if you can, but you know you CAN NOT ignore my TRUTHFUL posts can you chuck. so you met pepper and trane "before their deaths" SO F------ WHAT.............."strange situation where I had personal contact with each before their deaths". CHUCK, guess what............we are all going to DIE at some point in time.....whose going to be with you "before your death"......................

You know, I've never noticed your posts before, but you could try being a little less hostile, and more respectful of others?

[analogak]

what is going on? mr jazz, you seem to have somehow misunderstood chuck's very clear statement which he didn't feel like spelling out for you but didn't need spelling out unless you are brazilian or chinese or serbian or something but if you are from america or otherwise a native-speaker of english, unless you are in eight grade or below, i think chuck was pretty straight forward (especially for chuck). yet it sent you on an insane multiple post rant. but your rant is based on a stupid (in the insignifigant sense) misunderstanding. maybe delete some of these crazy posts and reread this thread with a clear and mellow mind and you will feel differently. also if you did indeed run chuck off, it will be difficult for me to ever forgive you and if i ever meet you in person it is possible i will avoid making direct eye contact with you and give you a very limp and unenthusiastic handshake.

[mjzee]

Or just use the "Ignore" feature...a very useful tool...