Dan Gould Posted September 29, 2003 Author Report Posted September 29, 2003 Jim, the other track I considered using was the title track, which really takes the Dylan tune to church. Again, Lou sticks very close to the melody, but Foster really takes it to church. There's a nice reading of "Who Can I turn To?" a cover of "Hello Dolly" which the liners make out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread (or Carol Channing) and then the closest thing to the grease is a tune called blue something or other which is a nice, long, slow blues. But I already had that covered with the Mance/Alexander, doncha know. Quote
Jim R Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 Dan, what else is on that Ike Isaacs album? Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 29, 2003 Author Report Posted September 29, 2003 More of the same, mostly, an original named "soulin'", "Walk on by", "Mercy Mercy Mercy" and one oddball that I definitely considered using-"Impressions" Quote
RDK Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 This drawn-out Eric Alexander discussion has been a fascinating read, but in a way it makes me feel pretty darn dumb. Prior to this blindfold test I'm not sure if I ever heard *anything* by Mr. Alexander. And only a bit by George Coleman for that matter. Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 Oh, track down George Coleman - Miles' 'My Funny Valentine' + 'Seven Steps to Heaven' and Hancock's 'Maiden Voyage' are his most well known outings. But he's been a regular performer over the last 30 years and one who is much loved in the UK because he's played here frequently. He used to be a regular at Ronnie Scott's. I particularly like 'Amstedam After Dark'. 'Manhattan Panorama' and 'At Yoshi's' are wonderful too and there's a double CD drawn from his Ronnie Scott engagements. Over the last couple of nights I've been really enjoying 'The Wynton Kelly Trio with George Coleman' recorded live in 1968. The sound is impaired by the flutter on the original tape but once you've aclimatised it sounds magnificent. A man who seemed to get lost in the shadows of Miles' other tenor players. I've always found him to be a player of great warmth, invention and...to take up the theme of recent posts on this thread...personality. Quote
RDK Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 Well I of course know Coleman from "Maiden Voyage" and have him as a sideman on a couple of other recordings (though, not, I believe, any of the Miles'). When I think of George I think of "Convergence," the duo album he did with Richie Beirach back in 1990. In fact, it may be here somewhere in my office... Quote
Jim R Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 Thanks Dan, and Couw, for the info. Regarding the Coleman / Alexander thing, I've heard quite a bit by both (and own some), but I never made the connection regarding their sound. I probably don't think about that sort of thing as much as others (although since I'm a guitarist and guitar enthusiast, it has come into play quite a bit in terms of comparing guitarists and thinking about the jazz guitar "family tree"). Also, I don't read jazz magazines (never have, actually) and these days I don't even read liner notes very frequently (part apathy, part aging eyes, part shrinking print ), so I don't get stimulated to think about these things as much as others probably do. Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 Well I of course know Coleman from "Maiden Voyage" and have him as a sideman on a couple of other recordings (though, not, I believe, any of the Miles'). When I think of George I think of "Convergence," the duo album he did with Richie Beirach back in 1990. In fact, it may be here somewhere in my office... That's one I don't know. I think you will be very impressed by the 'My Funny Valentine/Four and More' set - originally two separate albums drawn from the same concert with the ballads on the former and the faster numbers on the latter. It might seem to be all the same tunes that Miles recorded in the early/mid 60s but they sound very different here. Coleman is just wonderful. [This is all due as part of one of the last Columbia boxes]. I'd be interested to hear more of him in the 60s. I seem to recall a few LPs around in the 80s. I also have him on a Booker Little LP and a Max Roach LP. Played Alexander's Summit Meeting tonight and can see the similarities...right down to having Harold Mabern on piano. Quote
mikeweil Posted September 29, 2003 Report Posted September 29, 2003 It may be part of that game called learning to play the saxophone - getting caught up in phrases and techniques your teacher uses. Regarding the Coleman/Alexander comparison, it just struck me that one of my favourites, Jane Ira Bloom, is another Coleman disciple, and she sounds completely like herself, not a bit like Coleman! So it can't, of course, be Coleman's "fault", but maybe Alexander's "folly"? Quote
JSngry Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Check out George w/Elvin, especially the Vanguard thing on Enja. Too bad the Elvin BNs aren't available individually, because POLYCURRENTS & COALITION have some GREAT Coleman on them. There's a duet album he did w/Tete Montoliu that's pretty impressive too. It was issued stateside on Muse, but I think it was a Timeless recording, so proceed accordingly. Aomebody help me out here - I remember George having an octet in the late 70s, and I remember hearing a performance on NPR, but I don't remember if they ever officially recorded. Anybody know? The thing that makes George so pleasing to me is that he combines some pretty "sophiticated" harmonic concepts with a warmth and "bluesyness" that stereotypically gets attributed to his being from Memphis, but I think is just a result of him being a beautiful cat. I mean, sure, there's a lot of soul in Memphis to this day, but it's not like it's in the water or some such. Just being from Memphis ain't gonna make you hip! Quote
Soul Stream Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Check out George w/Elvin, especially the Vanguard thing on Enja. Too bad the Elvin BNs aren't available individually, because POLYCURRENTS & COALITION have some GREAT Coleman on them. There's a duet album he did w/Tete Montoliu that's pretty impressive too. It was issued stateside on Muse, but I think it was a Timeless recording, so proceed accordingly. Aomebody help me out here - I remember George having an octet in the late 70s, and I remember hearing a performance on NPR, but I don't remember if they ever officially recorded. Anybody know? The thing that makes George so pleasing to me is that he combines some pretty "sophiticated" harmonic concepts with a warmth and "bluesyness" that stereotypically gets attributed to his being from Memphis, but I think is just a result of him being a beautiful cat. I mean, sure, there's a lot of soul in Memphis to this day, but it's not like it's in the water or some such. Just being from Memphis ain't gonna make you hip! Hey Man...George DID play on those early B.B. King records with the Newbournes. I'd say his blues roots run pretty darn deep. Quote
JSngry Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Oh yeah, no doubt. And that's one of the things I dig most about him. All I'm saying is that you can be from Memphis (or anywhere,) and not necessarily have that flavor rub off on you. If it were THAT easy, what a wonderful world this would be! Quote
mikeweil Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Somebody help me out here - I remember George having an octet in the late 70s, and I remember hearing a performance on NPR, but I don't remember if they ever officially recorded. Anybody know? Always at your service, Jim, it's a nice disc. Here's a quote from the Frank Strozier Discography: Date: November 2, 1977 Location: Blank Studios, NY ldr - George Coleman; t - Danny Moore; as - Frank Strozier; ts - George Coleman, Junior Cook; bar - Mario Rivera; p - Harold Mabern; b - Lisle Atkinson; d - Idris Muhammad; per - Azzedin Weston a. On Green Dolphin Street - 11:02 (Bronislau Kaper, Ned Washington) b. Frank's Tune - 08:00 (Frank Strozier) c. Big George - 04:55 (Shirley Scott) d. Joggin' - 05:06 (George Coleman) e. Body And Soul - 10:33 (Edward Heyman, Robert Sour, Frank Eyton, Johnny Green) Affinity (Eng.) CD: CDAFF 764 - More From the Horn f. Revival - 05:34 (George Coleman) All titles on: - Thesis CD: THJ 82032 - Affinity (Eng.) CD: CD Charly 83 - Big George - Affinity (Eng.) CD: CDAFF 766 - Stablemates: Junior Cook Quartet/George Coleman Octet - Affinity (Eng.) LP 12": AFF 52 - Big George - Affinity (Eng.) LP 12": AFF 178 - Big George Part of this session was recorded on November 3, 1977. Azeddin Weston appears on Joggin' only. This session was originally recorded for but never issued by the Vee Jay label. Quote
Tom Storer Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Amazingly, that does seem to be the only GC Octet recording. At least, I couldn't find any others... I saw that band, although I'm not sure of the exact personnel, back in the late 70's, at Carnegie Hall, I believe. It was a wild triple bill, probably part of the Kool Festival or however it was called at the time: Coleman's octet, Ted Curson's septet (with Chris Woods and Nick Brignola!), and a similar sized ensemble led by Muhal Richard Abrams and including Dave Holland and George Lewis. I was a teenage avant-garde buff at the time, although not exclusively, and went because I had been listening to Dave Holland and had recently discovered the AACM and wanted to hear Muhal. I was thrilled by the whole concert, though. After the concert a friend of mine and I snuck backstage and talked to Holland, who made my day, hell, my year!, when he saw someone he needed to talk to, said, "Excuse me a minute, could you hold my bass?", handed me his bass and disappeared. I stood there holding Dave Holland's bass for a couple of minutes trying to look hip and blasé but with a goofy grin I couldn't get off my face. As we were leaving I saw Brignola checking out with his baritone and recalled how impressed I'd been by his burning solos. It was the first time I had seen or heard of him, so I went up and told him how great he was, and then blithely said, "What's your name?" Deadpan pause, Brignola no doubt thinking "Should I slap this young pup?" But he just said, "Brignola, B-R-I-G-N-O-L-A. Glad you liked it," and walked off. I didn't see Coleman backstage but that was only the first of many times I went to see him, usually with his quartet. And once, in Paris, with a tribute-to-Coltrane quintet featuring Tommy Flanagan, Coleman, James Moody, George Mraz and Jimmy Cobb. Ah, memories... Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 I have 'Big George' on LP from the early 80s. Nice record though I prefer him in quartet mode. There's also this more recent octet release: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A4c8n1vj3zzca I've seen it in London but never got around to buying it. After this discussion... Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Posted September 30, 2003 The Two and Four Octet release is easily recommended, Bev. I saw Big George at Smoke with the Octet and didn't hesitate to buy the CD on the way out the door afterwards. Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 I'm convinced! Next time I see it. I also want to track down that first Eastern Rebellion CD. Often quoted as a big influence on UK tenorist, Iain Ballamy (now there's a marvellous under-40 player!). Quote
JSngry Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 If the long-term effect of this Blindfold Test and its subsequent discussion is increased appreciation of George Coleman, I'd think that Mr. Gould would be deserving of some kind of Public Service award! Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Posted September 30, 2003 The ironic thing being that I came oh so very close to using a track from that George Coleman Octet recording (the recent one). Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 If the long-term effect of this Blindfold Test and its subsequent discussion is increased appreciation of George Coleman, I'd think that Mr. Gould would be deserving of some kind of Public Service award! Here! Here! (accompanied by a toss of my bowler hat in the air - which I will, of course, catch on my umbrella). Quote
RDK Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 What's ironic is that George Coleman, the center of so much discussion here, didn't even appear on the blindfold test disc! B) There's something really cool about that... Quote
mikeweil Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 Must be a real influential player , this Coleman ... now what was his first name? Quote
mikeweil Posted September 30, 2003 Report Posted September 30, 2003 (edited) I'm afraid this thread is once again goin' severely (there ain't no grinnin' off-topic-smiley, unfortunately, this one needs a day off badly) Edited September 30, 2003 by mikeweil Quote
Brad Posted October 1, 2003 Report Posted October 1, 2003 This too may be off topic but I just received an email from Hiroshi that he will be shipping the Junior Mance cd tomorrow. Speaking of Junior Mance, I see that Fantasy has just reissued Tough Tenors on which Junior appears. Quote
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