Blindfold Test # 2 Answers

[Dan Gould]

Some general comments first:

I am pleased that so many participants reallly seemed to dig most if not all of my compilation. On the other hand, I remain perplexed at some of the "digs" on certain cuts, like the vocal track and the long, slow blues that wrapped things up. But to each their own, no accounting for taste, (insert your cliche here).

Tony Jerant came closest to identifying the theme: "the thematic link being bluesy, soulful jazz." Only I had a different word in mind:

GREASY

(Remember that I did write that the theme was not entirely consistent, so if you ignore the ballad and the boppers which don't quite fit, well, there's your theme!)

The one specific approach I took was to choose tunes which would be recognizable, largely. Of course, some of these were originals and not recognizable immediately, I considered tracks 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 11-13 to be tunes that, certainly the board in toto would recognize. So my approach was different from Tony Jerant's in that I was, for the most part, asking people to identify artists on familiar themes, and I did this knowing that by choosing recognizable tunes, it could make the solving of the puzzles easier due to sources like AMG. Not saying its wrong or right, just saying that was the situation I knew I was setting up.

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Track #1

Many people guessed Gene Harris, but many people also appealed to "reverse psychology" as a reason to reject that identification, but no one quite picked up on just how much reverse psychology I used. You see, "I'll Drown in My Own Tears" was on the Live at the Light House CD, however it was one of those tracks on which Harris overdubbed his organ, so I gave you a recognizable "Sounds" tune but in a version which could not have been on Blue Note. In other words, I was pretty tricky here.

I'll Drown in My Own Tears (Ray Charles)

Ike Isaacs, Ike Isaacs at Freddie Jett's Pied Piper (NORMA)

Isaacs-bass, Jack Wilson-piano, Jimmy Smith-drums

1967

This is surely the most un-Jack Wilson sounding Jack Wilson LP you are likely to hear. He's quite different from his Blue Note albums, but obviously Jack fit right into Isaacs crowd-pleasing soul jazz vibe on this live recording. The CD was available earlier this year from Dusty Groove and while it is rather short, I do recommend it.

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Track #2

I honestly did not expect any debate on whether this was Joe Williams, I thought that much was quite obvious. The song was also chosen for its surprising pianist, but few people even guessed who that might be. Well, here it is:

I'd Rather Drink Muddy Water (Eddie Miller)

Joe Williams: A Song is Born (VHS-View Video)

Joe Williams-vocals, George Shearing-piano, Neil Swainson-bass, Paul Humphrey-drums

1991 at the Paul Masson Winery (yes, the crowd was extremely "vanilla"!)

Anyone else surprised at George Shearing's way with the blues?

The entire video is terrific, a mix of ballads, blues, Ellingtonia, and in awesome sound. It was dubbed direct from the VHS audio outputs to the PC. And best of all, CD Universe is currently listing it as available:

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Track #3

It was quite interesting to see different reactions to another tune I expected people to identify: "Stand by me" "No, its 'Stand By Me' chord changes" No, its a "knock off of 'Stand By Me'". And actually, its inclusion was due to my own confusion on this number. To me, it IS "Stand By Me," I just hear LD phrasing the theme a bit differently. And yet the liners just say that "the quintet ranges into the R&B bag and comes up with a Donaldson original."

Someone will have to explain that to me. But regardless, a fun tune, I figured that LD's tone would give it away but I guess the tune (or what the tune SOUNDS like) threw a lot of people off ...

The Wheeler-Dealer (Lou Donaldson)

Blowing in the Wind (Argo)

LD-alto, Herman Foster-piano, Sam Jones-bass, Leo Morris-drums

1966

(Kudos to Tony Jerant for his sleuthing on this one)

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Track #4

Watermelon Man (Herbie Hancock)

Red Holloway, In The Red (Highnote)

Holloway-tenor, Norman Simmons-piano, Peter Washington-bass, Kenny Washington-drums

1998

Jim Sangrey was only partially right about the rhythm section on this one, and I have always felt that Norman Simmons slips below too many folks attention. I also wanted to call attention to one of the great tenor players, of course. I have always been knocked out by Simmons' solo on this tune and was surprised that few people singled it out, and some even thought it was from a younger guy! Anyway, I highly recommend this CD.

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Track #5

I knew this one was a bit of a curve ball, in fact, it was a last minute addition to the set list, as I realized it would make for a different feel than the rest of the tunes, and was also a rare Savoy album that's never been issued on CD (Good sleuthing, mike weil!)

Ernie Wilkins, Blues in a Cold Water Flat (Ernie Wilkins)

Flutes & Reeds (Savoy)

Ernie Wilkins-alto and arrangements, Frank Wess-tenor, Jerome Richardson-tenor, Hank Jones-piano, Eddie Jones-bass, Kenny Clarke-drums

(Solo order of the reeds is Wess, Wilkins, Richardson)

No date on LP, it is an RVG engineered recording, however.

I came close to picking one of the flute tracks but space limitations led me to this one, which had solos from all the principals plus Klook trading fours. A great, great album, why in all of the Savoy reissue programs it hasn't seen the light of day is completely beyond me.

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Track #6

Continuum, "Sid's Delight" (Tadd Dameron)

Mad About Tadd (Palo Alto Records)

Slide Hampton-trombone, Jimmy Heath-tenor, Kenny Barron-piano, Ron Carter-bass, Art Taylor-drums 1982

I was completely shocked when mikeweil identified this LP and said it was in his collection. I figured this label and this album was quite obscure enough, that it would simply be the challenge of identifying the players, which several people did do.

An excellent LP, I wish I could tell you that its available ...

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Track #7

The single track I was most curious about how it would be received. Let me describe the situation for you:

An American musician had returned to the States after many years abroad, and the producer invited him to Florida to record at a concert and at a radio station studio with a local band.

Carmell Jones, "Billie's Bounce" (Charlie Parker)

Carmell Jones Returns (my burn from PD doesn't mention the label, AMG gives a label for a CD reissue, I have no idea if its accurate or not)

Jones-trumpet, Roland Burns-alto, Frank Sullivan-piano, Scott Walton-bass, Billy Bowker-drums

1982 in Gainesville Florida

I was extremely curious whether anyone (particularly Jim Sangrey) would pick up on the fact that this is a "star + local band" kind of date. It was quite interesting to hear people try to sort out the inspirations of musicians described in the liners as the "Gainesville house rhythm section" and the alto was a Gainesville resident described in the liners as "not a 'finished' player." So, what do you think now that you know that Carmell's backup was just a bunch of local musicians?

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Track #8

Houston Person, Since I Fell For You (Buddy Johnson)

Houston Person, The Real Thing (Westbound)

Person-tenor, Grant Green-guitar, Jimmy Watson-organ, Hank Brown-drums

1972 or 73, live at Watt's Club Mozambique

Another rare one, well worth the search though. A mix of pop tunes including You Are The Sunshine of my Life, the Ohio Player's "Pain", a couple of then-current Spinners hits, but also some standards and jazz tunes like Easy Walker, Angel Eyes and T'ain't Nobody's Business. And great sidemen including Jack McDuff, Etta Jones, Idris Muhammad and ... I just noticed this, James Jamieson, who I just learned so much about when I finally rented Standing in the Shadows of Motown. Cool! Anyway, it was interesting hearing people deny what was pretty obvious to my ears, that it was Grant Green. I thought this would be a gimme, at least on Grant, but you guys took your time to figure it out!

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Track #9

Teddy Edwards, I'm So Afraid of Love (Edwards)

Soundtrack album, The Legend of Teddy Edwards (Cope Records)

Edwards-tenor, Larry Nash-piano, Wendell Williams-bass, Gerryck King-drums

2000

I figured I had to program a ballad and I felt this was a very beautiful one. And if it gets people to purchase the DVD or the CD, all the better! I first got the DVD, and it must be seen, but I also wanted to enjoy the music so I snagged the CD too. Get it!

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Track #10

Eastern Rebellion, In The Kitchen (Cedar Walton)

Simple Pleasure (MusicMasters)

Walton-piano, Ralph Moore-tenor, David Williams-bass, Billy Higgins-drums

1993

The reason I chose Ralph Moore in the Eastern Rebellion tenor sax poll I started was the two times that I saw the band, at a club on the east side and later at the Vanguard. It was on the former gig that Walton was debuting this tune and it became an instant favorite of mine. Cedar introduced it by saying that it was inspired by and dedicated to his grandson, "who always has so much fun ... In The Kitchen." And they proceeded to serve up a twenty plus minute helping of some greasy, life affirming blues. Great stuff. A little surprised no one picked up on Cedar Walton (but I think someone did say Eastern Rebellion, so I guess its the same thing, but ...)

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Track #11

Michael Cochrane, Footprints (Wayne Shorter)

Footprints, Michael Cochrane Trio Plays The Music of Wayne Shorter(Steeplechase)

Cochrane-piano, Ron McClure-bass, Yoron Israel-drums

2000

Cochrane is one of those guys that, if there were justice, would not labor in obscurity. Can't really explain it, but I just really dig his playing, and by picking a tune from this album, I hope to motivate a few people to give him a chance. This album is an excellent place to start, he also has several others on Steeplechase, both trio and quartet.

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Track #12

Richard "Groove" Holmes, I'm Gonna Move To The Outskirts of Town (Razaf/Weldon)

Bowl of Soul (Loma Records)

Holmes-organ, unidentified big band arranged and conducted by Onzy Matthews

Not sure of a date.

Had to go with an organist, for Organissimo, right? Didn't think this one would be confused with Jimmy Smith and Oliver Nelson. Some dissed the arrangement but I dug it and the openings left for Groove to wail in between.

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Track #13

Wow-the differences of opinion on this one!

Junior Mance, Lonely Avenue (D. Pomus)

Junior Mance Trio, Groovin' Blue (M&I Records)

Mance-piano, Eric Alexander-tenor, Chip Jackson-bass, Idris Muhammad-drums

2001. Available from Mr. Tanno at Early Records

What can I say? Obviously I really dug this long, slow blues. When I got this CD late last year, I realized that with Gene Harris gone, Junior Mance is the pre-eminent blues rooted jazz pianist, and I gotta get more of his stuff The CD is great, and for those who don't dig Alexander, he's not on every cut. An almost all blues program but with some surprises thrown in, including Blueberry Hill, Got My Mojo Working, and America The Beautiful.

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Thanks for reading-I had a lot bottled up while I read everyone's guesses! And thanks again to everyone who participated. I hope the answers sparks some more interesting conversation.

[mikeweil]

Oh geez! I'm not mad at myself that I didn't recognize or conclude Lou Donaldson, I'm not as much a Blue Note addict as most organissimists, and not that familiar with his playing.

But I am severely mad at myself for not recognizing Eastern Rebellion! I saw this band live several times, and this edition in particular, and I have all three MusicMasters CDs, listened to them often, and this track sounded so damn familiar, and the vibrato of this tenor player .... my memory is not what it used to be.

I insist, it was Joe Williams with a cold ....

# 5 - it had to be a Savoy album judging from the sound and Kenny Clarke, this kept bugging me until I had done my detective homework. These Ernie Wilkins Savoys would make a nice Mosaic select ... I'm glad I keep my little finger.

The Teddy Edwards is one to check out, definitively, perhaps the most satisfying track on the test, to me at least, after several re-listens.

The Jack Wilson was impossible to guess unless one had the album, and Carmell Jones - showing his boop roots - I'll have to get the Mosaic set. He didn't play like that when I heard him over here. Pretty good local musicians! Wish the locals over here would play that geasy!

The Red Holloway leaves me a little uneasy, even after knowing who it is. I respect and appreciate him, and Norman Simmons even more, but this is a little to sloppy for me - I'm too much a fan of Mongo's and Herbie's versions.

Palo Alto LPs were available here through special import shops - there were some very good ones in Germany during the LP era - and then there was a sellout when they folded. I think the album is nice, but not as great conceptually as Philly Joe's Dameronia outings. How come your CD sounds much better than my LP? I expected you to reveal a CD reissue.

Junior Mance - there not enough good albums from him.

Thanks for the lesson in greasiness!!!

Edited September 26, 2003 by mikeweil

[randyhersom]

My ears have a long way to go. I talked myself out of my only correct guess on a leader, and was sure #10 was an alto. At least I mentioned the theme in passing : ).

Cool Jack Wilson rarity!

Great fun and I hope I get to spin the platters for you all soon.

[Dan Gould]

What can I tell you, Mike? I guess my copy of the Palo Alto was in a touch better shape than yours-I didn't even have to do any manual pop/click removal. Oh, and I got it for $5.

[Brad]

Well, I got one right . After reading the answers, my hat or whatever is off to Jim. He nailed a lot of these suckers. I guess that's the difference between a musician and a fan (or fanatic). I'll be honest. I never heard of Continuum but their version was very, very good. In the opening statement they almost sounded like Dameronia but then I realized they weren't.

I'll be on the computer later to Hiroshi (today is recycling night) for number 13. He'll probably be wondering why he's getting so many orders for this cd. I can only say that I'm privilged to see Junior Mance on a semi regular basis at Shanghai Jazz here in Madison, NJ.

Again, my thanks to Dan for picking out a good selection.

One more comment. I think it was Soul Stream who said that we shouldn't resort to AMG or other help since an artist usually has to pick it right on the spot. I agree with that. In that case, I would have gotten the big bagel

[JSngry]

Frank Sullivan-piano, Scott Walton-bass, & Billy Bowker-drums make a damn fine rhythm section, at least on this tune and for this groove. That was 20 years ago. Any idea where they are today?

That Teddy thing continues to slay me. So much beauty.

That's the most genuinely frisky (as opposed to seeming to just "play the style") Junior Mance I've hear in a LONG time. That's a good thing to hear from him.

Now, if only they'd have used Red Holloway, that would REALLY have been the shit!

Edited September 26, 2003 by JSngry

[DrJ]

Well, I'm actually pretty pleasantly surprised - I had hazarded a guess of Ray Charles on the first cut, and he did WRITE it so there was something there that said "Ray" to me. I also picked out Grant Green on what sounds to have been an uncharacteristically un-fluid, bad day and identified a few others including Poppa Lou, so not bad! And I KNEW that tenor player on the last cut was a young'un who hasn't really found his voice on stuff like that yet! Of course, that leaves a WHOLE lot of other stuff that had me stymied, but as they say, AC-CENT-U-ATE THE POS-I-TIVE...

AND, most importantly, I found out a few more albums that I MUST track down...tracks 6, 7, and 8 alone were worth the price of admission. Man did I love that Heath/Hampton/Carter/Taylor/Barron track - it IS actually more properly called "Tadd's Delight," although apparently that tune goes under different names. I'm a big Dameron fan, so that was part of the hook, but Heath is on FIRE on that cut, just keep listening and the subtleties just keep multiplying. Fasinating that I thought I heard a Mobley influence, it just didn't sound like I usually find Heath sounds (frankly, I like the playing better here than on just about any other recording of his I've heard).

So thanks for the fun and thoughtful collection Dan! COOL STUFF!

Edited September 26, 2003 by DrJ

[Jazzmoose]

I must confess that, as a relative jazz newbie in this crowd, I'm not at all familiar with Junior Mance. I will correct that situation!

[Soul Stream]

Well, if I do say so myself...I did nail #13. I didn't guess Mance, but knew it was someone of his ilk. Idris fits the bill....and yes, Eric Alexander does suck on this imho. I used to count myself a fan of his, but lately I've been reconsidering. He's really falling into cliches and gimmicks on this cut. Doesn't sound like he's playing along with the theme Junior has set down. And the bass player...well, I don't know who "Chip" is, but....

Nice job all the way around Dan. Great selection of songs and artists! Also, thought it was surprising on how many were guessed correctly.

[Jim R]

I'm simultaneously proud and humbled. I didn't "nail" too many artists, but my instincts were correct on Wess (and the Savoy sound on #5), Heath, and Person. I only knew about half the tunes on the first listen (2, 3*, 4, 7, 8, and 11), but frankly some of those others were a little dubious (i.e. 3, 12, 13) in terms of taking some serious liberties with the actual melodies. (* Dan, all I can say on 3 is that if you saw Lou's line written out and compared it to the "real" Stand By Me, I think you'd see why some of us reacted the way we did).

Tony, the Houston Person thing with Grant was (to me) not necessarily Grant having a "bad day", but an example of how much his style and sound had changed between his BN golden age (especially that 1961 era) and the time of this recording. As I said on the other thread, I discounted the possibility that it was Grant mainly because I haven't paid much attention to his later, funkier work.

5, 6, and 9 still stand out as my faves from this test...

5: I thought that Ernie Wilkins session had been out on CD in Japan, but I could be wrong. BTW, there seems to be some significant ambiguity as to whether the session was led by Wilkins or Wess (AMG lists it twice- once for each artist as leader, one web discography I saw lists it as Wilkins', and my Goldmine guide lists it under Wess).

6: Without any doubt, I am light on Slide Hampton recordings. That damn Palo Alto label was right here under my nose, and I snoozed on this Continuum disc! I've heard some Hampton recs that didn't do a whole lot for me, but I still need to explore further. Jimmy Heath I have done a little better with.

9: Glad I have that Teddy Edwards DVD. I still say this tune should have been covered by some folks!

Well Dan, you put together a doozy. Really well thought out. I've been thinking about what I'm going to burn for about a week, and if I was using a pencil and paper I'd have a HUGE pile of wadded up paper by my desk. Tony and Dan both made this look simple, but it AIN'T simple. Hell, I've pretty much given up trying to do any kind of theme already (too confining for me, I think). I also think that my taste (which is slightly to the right of center) may be a disappointment to some. Don't worry- I'm NOT going to include any Andy Williams. Oh well, at least we'll be able to say there's a contrast between my test and Dan's...

[DrJ]

Jim - I am really familiar with Grant's later work, having all the BNs that have come out on CD so far and having heard the CTI date MAIN ATTRACTION...and I still think this was Grant having a really bad day.

His style changed a little in the later years, but in my ears not really that much on most sessions where he has his act together. Check out the live recordings from the era in particular, ALIVE! and the Lighthouse stuff, he's just as fluid and sounds very much like the Grant Green of the early 60's, but the context is different and he has altered his ideas and licks to fit the prevailing mode a bit.

It's of course possible he was playing that way on purpose on the cut on the blindfold disk - either at the leader's direction, or because he wanted to for some reason - can't say he wasn't. But I doubt it. Green had major problems with substances as we all know, and he had already had some pretty mundane days in the studio even in his earlier heydey - I think everyone has heard the sessions where he pretty much just strings together his pet licks, and not even in a particularly inspired way - so I don't think my interpretation would be out of the question. But then again, I could be wrong! -_-

Edited September 26, 2003 by DrJ

[RDK]

I read the answers mere minutes after Dan posted them, but only now have a chance to respond. I actually did better on this, my first blindfold test, than I would have expected - though I only correctly guessed parts of a few of them.

1. Since I have "Live at the Light House" I knew this wasn't the Three Sounds version. I'd actually been listening to the Ramsey Lewis trio just before hearing this disc and this sounds just like their Argo albums. I'm shocked that this is Jack Wilson - never would have guessed him in a billion years.

2. Like Dan, I was surprised that anyone thought this was someone other than Joe Williams. I was actually getting psyched out by the other guesses and started to think that it wasn't Joe after all. I'm relieved to learn that it was - now I don't have to eat my hat. And that's Shearing on the piano? Holy cow - I've never heard Shearing like that before.

3. Okay, now I'm embarrassed. I actually have this album on CD. I even suggested that it might be a Donaldson Argo. But that damn title threw me off. I was thinking it a cover of "Stand By Me," and failed to recognize it as something I had under a different name.

4. Other than knowing the title, I was way off on this one. But i did download it from emusic the other night after someone suggested that it was Red Holloway. B)

5. Never would have guessed this one. I recognize all the players but I'm not familiar enough with their identifiable styles.

6. Same as #5. I've gotta get out more...

7. The recording is so obscure that I shouldn't feel like an idiot, but I do anyway.

8. I told you I was no damn good at blindfold tests!

9. This I gotta get. I only saw Teddy Edwards play live once, about a year before his death, but the more I hear of him the more I think of him as an underappreciated giant. Absolutely lovely tune. I downloaded his earlier version of "Afraid of Love" from emusic, but I much prefer this one.

10. Never heard of Eastern Rebellion (the group) and don't think I have anything by Ralph Moore in my collection. A nice greasy track.

11. Never heard of Cochrane, but I'd like to hear more of this disc. I really liked this version of "Footprints."

12. I guessed Jimmy Smith and Oliver Nelson but only because of the big band context - I really don't like those Verve albums all that much. I don't know organists enough to tell Smith from Holmes (obviously).

13. Along with 9, this might be my favorite track on this disc. I don't understand the criticism of it. Different strokes I guess. I'm so proud of myself that I actually guessed Junior Mance! B) (Maybe not with a lot of conviction, but I'll take one any way I can.)

Again, Dan, thanks for the really cool disc. I'm gonna have to hunt me down a few of these.

[Dan Gould]

5: I thought that Ernie Wilkins session had been out on CD in Japan, but I could be wrong. BTW, there seems to be some significant ambiguity as to whether the session was led by Wilkins or Wess (AMG lists it twice- once for each artist as leader, one web discography I saw lists it as Wilkins', and my Goldmine guide lists it under Wess).

That would be because the album just says "Flutes & Reeds"

But its clear from the liners that Wilkins should get credit-he says he always wanted to do such an album, he picked Wess and Richardson and wrote the arrangements, so to me its pretty obvious it should be listed under Wilkins.

[Dan Gould]

11. Never heard of Cochrane, but I'd like to hear more of this disc. I really liked this version of "Footprints."

Ray (and anyone else interested in Cochrane) the disc is available from Stateside Distributors:

Stateside Distributors-1004 N. California. Chicago, IL 60622-3408 Attn: Pete Crawford. Phone toll-free 1-888-776-0436 or e-mail stateside@prodigy.net

[Dan Gould]

Frank Sullivan-piano, Scott Walton-bass, & Billy Bowker-drums make a damn fine rhythm section, at least on this tune and for this groove. That was 20 years ago. Any idea where they are today?

Nary a clue, and this Seminole is not about to go make a visit to Gainesville to ask around!

[Jim R]

the tenor on track 13 still doesn't stand out and reading the comments of others on Eric Alexander I will probably not go out of my way to check him out.

Hmm, I don't recall how many people here had negative things to say about Eric Alexander. Doesn't really matter I suppose, because everybody has (and is entitled to) their opinions, but we should of course decide for ourselves. I'm going to go the positive route. As I said, I didn't care at all for track 13, but I do enjoy and respect Alexander. I have a few of his CD's as a leader, and a few of his sideman appearances, and he has always impressed me. I think perhaps too many people try to compare him to some of the greats of the past, since his style comes so strongly out of that. The point is, I don't think you should use this one track as anywhere near a general representation of his playing. You may end up going along with those who don't care for him, but I would check him out.

[Tom Storer]

couw, I identify players (when I can, which clearly is not very often - I only got one right on this test) by a combination of tone, licks, phrasing... clearly there has to be something a player *repeats* if one is to be able to *recognize* the player. The more one listens the more one can store these things in the memory banks and make a match. Funky, greazy jazz like that used for this test is not a style I spend much time listening to, hence my poor showing!

Then there are other clues. Those who have the (to me) amazing ability to identify a "studio sound" can then narrow the field down to people who have recorded in that studio. Often you can narrow down in terms of time as well - some things could not have been recorded recently, and some things could only have been recorded recently; some things scream "1950's" and others scream "1970's", and so on. Sometimes you recognize the tune. So you might be able to say, let's see, who recorded for label X in time period Y, with a group this size, and was likely to play this tune? This can lead to pretty accurate guessing even if you don't instantly recognize a player's sound.

Looking forward to BF3! I'm already starting to collect tunes for whenever my turn comes around!

[Brad]

Not to check out Eric Alexander is a mistake in my opinion. He's one of the better ones around today. I'd recommend him on The First Milestone and in Steve Davis' cd, The Jaunt, which is a very nice hard bop album.

I've already put my money where my mouth is and have an order into Hiroshi for this Junior Mance album. Eric Alexander is not the reason I want this album; Junior Mance is.

Edited September 26, 2003 by Brad

[mikeweil]

When you are a musician, you are probably better - or at least you should be - at analyzing the music, paying attention to detail, and describing it because your terminology is more elaborate. I pay attention to drummers beacuse I am a percussionist and started playing a drumset as well a few years ago, and I've always liked listening to drummers, but saxophonists, as you said, it's a combination of their personal sound, phrasing, licks, the amount of vibrato - but it can mislead you too. I knew I had heard that tone and vibrato uses, but couldn't remember Ralph Moore. Sometimes it seems logical only afterwards.

The Watermelon Man track is a good example to be cautious with a research on AMG: the only version of this tune with a tenor and identical track length I saw was King Curtis', I simply overlooked the Red Holloway version. -_-

And I'll always remember the fact that sometimes a player uses stylistic ways entirely different from what we usually hear from him: the first track, where most guessed Gene Harris, I guessed Ramsey Lewis, and then it's Jack Wilson, is a point, or the Joe Williams with George Shearing. I think Shearing is not respected as much as he should be, he's a fantastic pianist, has good taste and swings.

Herbie Mann on the Legrand track in the first BF was a point for me: he played much more forcefully than I know of him, so I didn't guess it was him. I'll be more careful to pidgeonhole players in the future - BTW that's what some tended to do with Eric Alexander in this BF: c'mon guys, he's still got a long road to walk on, how would you do in the company of an experienced player like Junior Mance ....

Yeah, as Tom stated, I'm looking forward to # 2 and I#m collecting tunes for when it's my turn.

[Soul Stream]

My thing about Eric Alexander, hey...no doubt the guy's a monster player (that's not in question)....is he doesn't seem to be a very good listener as of late. Someone sent me a live tape recently of a group with Eric....The tone of the group was pretty bluesy with each (veteran and well-known) musician taking 3 to 5 choruses per solo or thereabouts (and Eric was a sideman here, always out-soloing the leader. A big no-no imho). However, Alexander seemed oblivious and played on and on and on...10 choruses, often doubling or tripling what the others were taking. And it's not that what he's playing is so diverse either. He gets caught in these Rivers/Coltrane riffs that he digs and won't let go (a few of his pet ones are on the Blindfold test cut.)

Maybe it's just a growing phase for him. I used to be a big fan of his earlier stuff. But lately, it's just like he's trying too hard to prove something. Often at the expense of others or the material.

O.k.-I'm done with my little rant.

Edited September 26, 2003 by Soul Stream

[JSngry]

My thing about Alexander on this cut wass what I said over in the guesses/reaction thread. He sounds like he's "playing phonetically", and if it's less noticable on his more recent work, or on his earlier work where the material was not as bare-boned as this kind of blues, it's something that I just can't shake everytime I hear him. and his tone is still WAY too close to George Coleman for me to feel comfortable taking him seriously as a true "voice" in today's music. Not just his tone either, but his entire approch - licks, concept, whatever. This cut has moments where it literally sounds like he's sight reading a George Coleman transcription. Hell, that's a PERFTLY normal, essential even, part of developing a s a player, but I'd rather not pay money to hear it on a record, unless there's some OTHER stuff going on in the same player's playing at the same time. Make no mistake, the guy is a SUPERB musician, but musicianship is only half the battle in this music. At least it used to be, maybe it's not anymore.

The thing about studio sounds is not as amazing as it might seem. It just takes time and awareness. The Van Gelder sound is darn near patented, and if you think about it as the Van Gelder sound and not the "Blue Note Sound", you can recognize it almost immediately. The piano sound, the bass sound, and the room sound/reverb ratio (in varying proportions over the years), as well as the blend of the horns, that's where I hear it most readily. The old Columbia studios always sounded to me like the air conditioning was on. Not literally, but that's the mental metaphor I have in my mind. The old RCA studios always sounded "hard" and in your face. These are not literal desctiptions, just my personal impressions.

The thing is, you can hear these characteristics going back to the days of 78s. The rooms didn't change as time went by, only the means of capturing the sound did. So each studio's "flavor" was/has been documented for a good long time. It's like anything else - if you start WANTING to notice it, you will. It's not a gift, it's the scar of listening to too many damn sides for too many years!!!!

That's true of individual players too. If you talk to somebody enough, you don't need to see them to know who the are, right? You get a phone call, and even of the connection's really crappy, you can still recognize the voice. Well, musicians are like that too, at least the ones I like the most are. They'll all have a distinctive voice, a combination of tone, phrasing, whatever, that makes them as recognizable when listening to a record as your crazy Uncle Billy is when he calls you on the phone at 3 A.M.. Of course, the more you talk with somebody, the more familiar their voce becomes, and music is no different. And similarly, the less contact ou have with a person, the less likely you are to recognoze their voice on the phone. And that's what a lot of jazz records are - phone calls from folks who want to tell you something.

Hey folks, music IS a form of communication, a very direct one ideally, so if you're not listening to it like you would somebody literally speaking to you, you might want to start doing so. Jazz is not a simple music, but if you like it well enough to have come this far with it, you need not worry about that. Just start treating music like you would a conversation, because that's REALLY all it is.

[Soul Stream]

Like George Braith told me the other day about solos...

Everyone has 3 choruses in them really, Coltrane had 4... maybe, after that they're just repeating themselves.

[JSngry]

And the bass player...well, I don't know who "Chip" is, but....

Chip Jackson? Played in Woody Herman's & Elvin's band in the 70s, been around since then. Cadence ran a nice interview with him a while back. He's one of thiose guys that does a lot of live gigs with name players but doesn't get called that much for record dates where the producers like to have a "recognizable" name on board (and there are a LOT of players that fall into this category, btw). Not a high-profile guy obviously, but he's a player nevertheless.

[Alexander]

I feel really bad. I got the disc a while ago and listened to it a couple of times. I meant to join in the the discussion and post my guesses, but I never seemed to get around to it. Anyway, that said, the only one I got was Joe Williams (never would have guessed Shearing though). I was right about the first tune (I'm a big Brother Ray fan), but I never would have guessed Jack Wilson! Like most people, I guessed Gene Harris (Ramsey Lewis was my second choice). Great to hear Ike Isaacs! Loved his trio on those LH&R albums!

On the whole, I didn't do too well. Guess my ears need cleaning! Damn!

Better luck next time, I guess.

Great selection, Dan! It was a real treat!

Edited September 27, 2003 by Alexander

[Brad]

I totally agree with couw and his sentiments mirror mine. I never studied music (not even as a kid) and I realize I am not getting as much out of the music as I could. That's why about nine months ago I started taking saxophone lessons, not so much as to be a great saxophone player or perform, etc. (you know what I mean) but to understand the music more. BTW, Jim's post is one of the best I've read on any board in a long time. After reading it, I said to myself "man, that's perceptive". While that may be obvious to most musicians, it may not be so to most fans. Enough pandering

Also, the comment about Eric Alexander was interesting. He's sort of been identified with a lot of the people who record for Criss Cross although he only made a few albums there. Recently, I bought Mike DiRubbo's Human Spirit cd on Criss Cross and on the cd are the CC regulars: Jim Rotondi, David Hazeltine, Peter Washington and Joe Farnsworth. I lent it to my music teacher, who plays jazz, and his comment is somewhat similar to Jim's. He said that DiRubbo is technically impressive but that it sounded like that he was going through the motions, that he had no soul or feeling and that you have to have emotion to play this music.

Edited September 27, 2003 by Brad