Just some thoughts on why I am somewhat tired of jazz

[Christiern]

Whenever possible, I avoid nightmares,BM. As you know, to me, Amy symbolizes the decline of the music industry and discriminating audiences.

[jazzbo]

BTW, could be that if so many folks here are doing this that it's little wonder some newcomers are a little perplexed - that while there's a lot of jazz talk there's also as much these days about other stuff, musical and non-musical. We all just take it for granted, but it probably does seem kinda strange.

You're on to something there. . . .

[Bright Moments]

Whenever possible, I avoid nightmares,BM. As you know, to me, Amy symbolizes the decline of the music industry and discriminating audiences.

[montg]

Thanks Chris--very eloquent and touching!

edited to clarify I'm referring to post #23!

Edited February 21, 2008 by montg

[jazzbo]

Hey Paul, a few artists that energized me over the years and put me onto different paths with excitement, might do something similar and be a source of new material:

Marvin Gaye

John Lee Hooker

Pee Wee Russell

For what it's worth

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I would give anything for an opportunity to relive the feeling that came over me when I first heard Bessie sing on a scratchy recording and didn't have a clue as to who she was or what she represented--all I knew was that she reached out from that little radio speaker and changed my life.

A guy who went by Sailor Vernon, from whom I used to buy a lot of blues and gospel albums in the early eighties first brought this phenomenon to my attention. It's true, you can't ever experience your first kiss (&etc) again. But you can certainly kiss other girls. And I've found a lot in Africa.

You can't try Amy Winehouse, because you've heard her - try the one I've fallen in love with (metaphorically) over the past few months; Concha Buika. (I won't ask you to try Castro Destroyer )

MG

[aparxa]

But you can certainly kiss other girls. And I've found a lot in Africa.

[WorldB3]

WorldB3: ditto on Changeless. Was just listening to that the other day.

Well, there must be something in the water. I've been on a fairly huge Dead kick these days, and because my wife wants the trio to learn more 90's rock tunes, I've been going back and listening to a bunch of that stuff as well.

I just want to hear something different. And I'm in an odd spot right now where the straight ahead jazz isn't scratching that itch, but the stuff on the other side of the spectrum ain't doin' much either.

If someone's got a recommendation or two, I'm all ears.

My wife and I were listening to the new Dead Road Trips from 77 and she was saying how Brad Mehldau needs to do a cover of Sugaree. I am sure he thinks he is way too cool for something like that but I think he could make it work.

It seems like the Radiohead songbook is all used up for jazz covers but there are couple songs on the new record in Reconer and All I Need that would make great Jazz tunes.

Outside of the normal Brit pop 90's stuff if you like a bit psych, soul and dub maybe try Vanishing Point and Scremadelica by Primal Scream. They just did a deluxe re-issue of Beck's Odelay, I might revisit that one soon to see how it held up.

Edited February 21, 2008 by WorldB3

[kenny weir]

Ordered this months ago, getting it at lunch time today: Yum!

Hag: The Studio Recordings 1969-1976

[Alexander]

I go through cycles. I think most people do. Right now I'm listening to more jazz (especially since I'm working my way through Allen's "Devlin Tune" sets), but only recently I listened to very little. My listening has been divided between African music, Tuvan throat music, Brazilian music, plus lots of pop, rock, and hip-hop. And country. I've been on a Johnny Cash kick of late.

To me, it's not about how much of any genre I listen to, I just follow wherever my interest leads me. Eventually, I always wind up coming back to the Beatles, anyway...

[Alexander]

They just did a deluxe re-issue of Beck's Odelay, I might revisit that one soon to see how it held up.

Well, speaking personally, I think it's held up very well. It's a brilliant album, probably Beck's overall best (although he's done some really good stuff recently on "Guero" and "The Information"). I bought the second disc of the deluxe package off of iTunes. There's some good stuff there, but nothing as good as the original album itself.

[Rosco]

A guy who went by Sailor Vernon, from whom I used to buy a lot of blues and gospel albums in the early eighties first brought this phenomenon to my attention. It's true, you can't ever experience your first kiss (&etc) again. But you can certainly kiss other girls. And I've found a lot in Africa.

MG

Wow. I used to work with Sailor. There was someone with truly encyclopaedic knowledge and a deep love and enthusiasm for the blues. My love of Blind Lemon Jefferson and Bukka White can be traced back to hearing Sailor playing some Yazoo reissue or other.

I'm another for whom listening to jazz has gone hand-in-hand with listening to all kinds of other things. Of course, what actually constitutes jazz may change vastly. The thing I love about this music is its diversity and constant reinvention. It's a well that doesn't run dry for me- so far, anyway.

[Rosco]

I have been listening to jazz for 60 years...

I would give anything for an opportunity to relive the feeling that came over me when I first heard Bessie sing on a scratchy recording and didn't have a clue as to who she was or what she represented--all I knew was that she reached out from that little radio speaker and changed my life. I would also love to experience again my subsequent discoveries, the wondrous music that made me spend close to 3 years manually turning discs on my broken HMV floor model with my index finger, because the spring was broken and I could not afford a new one. You really have to love the music to do that. The callouses on my finger have long since disappeared, but the memory lingers on. Imagine the feeling of unreality I later experienced as some of the names I had seen turn to gold and silver on my finger materialized as close and wonderful friends in a galaxy far, far away. Well, when you are a poor kid living beyond the garbage cans in a rear house walk-up in Copenhagen, Bourbon and 52nd Streets seem like something in a distant galaxy.

...I do get carried away, don't I?

Yes, but quite brilliantly.

[jimi089]

Second the comments on Melford, in fact it was her record Alive In The House Of Saints that got me back into the blues after I got burnt out on it two years ago. The way she plays the blues is more of a feel but that essence of Chicago Blues is there.

It could be the influence of one of her teachers during her Chicago days, the one and only Erwin Helfer, a Chicago gem.

As for the topic of the thread, I am still in the discovery phase of my jazz listening career, still following various threads of development, tracing sidemen interactions, and trying to piece the puzzle together. But as a part of that process I also find myself exploring the music of the whole world, because there comes a point in jazz, with musicians like Don Cherry where you have to listen to everything to understand what they were synthesizing - well, I'm not sure if that's necessarily true, but I find it to be instructive.

[Guest Bill Barton]

This is a great thread idea, Allen.

I've always been somewhat omnidirectional in my listening habits and I don't really tend to think of things in categories very often. In the years since circa 1980 I've done a lot of what one might call "professional listening." Sifting through tons of review CDs may sound like great fun to those who've never done it, but sometimes it can be a royal pain. You end up with a lot of chaff and a little wheat more often than not. The plus side is that some things generally off the beaten path don't seem that way at all.

As anyone who has checked out my Bright Moments playlists will know, I tend to have a deep interest in the avant-garde and the edgier edges of jazz-slash-improv-slash-creative improvised music-slash-comprovisation. The radio show is filling a niche, and I love that stuff. That's not to say that this is my only or all-consuming interest. As an avid jazz listener since age 12 (I'm 57 now) I love and respect many eras, styles and approaches. When it comes to "recreational listening," it could be anything from Blanton-Webster band era Ellington to Tina Brooks to Cecil Taylor solo to Satoko Fujii (one of my top current favorites.) I grew up on bluegrass and some top-notch high lonesome harmonies and fleet picking always feels right too. If one must use genre descriptions (I know, they're practically unavoidable) there's no question that roots reggae, afrobeat, assorted world musics, occasional classical (mainly Baroque and 20th verging on 21st Century), Celtic, Serge Gainsbourg , Bjork (I have almost all of her recordings), every once in awhile the Beatles White Album or Abbey Road, rockabilly, Western Swing, a little roots blues, Balinese Gamelan, and tons of Brazilian music (Tropicalia and Forro most prominently) come into the mix.

There are also relatively extended periods of time when I do very little "recreational" recorded music listening, usually when a deadline is approaching and the review CDs are in tottering piles around the computer begging for attention. Listening to music in live performance tends to be more important to me during those times.

To get back to the original thread title... I don't think that I'm tired of jazz, although I may be tired of narrow definitions of the word. There are many, many musicians generally pegged as "jazz" players whom I likely will never get tired of hearing: Henry "Red" Allen, Jabbo Smith, 1920s-1930s Louis Armstrong especially with Fatha Hines, Ellington of all eras, Pee Wee Russell, Steve Lacy, et al. I tend to have a particular fondness for those supreme individualists like Pee Wee and Jabbo who defy categorization. And contrary to "popular" opinion I think that there are plenty of worthy players active right now who have original things to say and original ways to say those things.

Thank you for those eloquent thoughts in post #23, Chris!

[Harold_Z]

It's all music and categories are really arbitrary to a large extent anyway. In my case I go through phases where I'm listening to more of one thing than another. Sometimes more R&B than Jazz, then more Brazilian than R&B, but never to the the total exclusion of ANY of them. I never think I'm going to listen to some jazz now or some rock - rather I think of an artist I want to hear. Then I'm off on a tangent for a while.

A cliche' but it's apt here. Variety is the spice of life.

[GA Russell]

Like BeBop and Lon, diversification has helped me from burning out on any one genre. However, I haven't been listening to music for nearly as long as you guys. Recently I have found myself annoyed with my music collection, stuck in a rut and playing the same stuff too much--not exploring what I already have enough.

Noj, I've mentioned this in the distant past, but since no one is expected to remember what everyone says, I'll repeat it...

I "explore what I already have" by starting each New Year with the resolution to listen to all of my CDs at least once in the calendar year. For the first time in a number of years, in 2007 I actually did it.

Here's my method: I do not shelve my CDs in alphabetical order. I keep one shelf separate for the CDs opened in the past twelve months. They get by far the most play.

All of my other CDs, regardless of genre, I keep together. There is no order except one - I place the CD I have just listened to at the end of the top shelf. When that shelf is filled up, I slide all of my CDs down to make the top shelf empty again.

I call this the LIFO method (for the accounting term "last in, first out").

Because there is no order except that of having been played, I sometimes cannot find a CD I am looking for. But that doesn't happen very often.

The benefit of this system is that I know right where to go to find the CDs I haven't listened to in a long time. They are on the bottom shelf.

I believe that my habitual browsing of the bottom shelf keeps me from getting burned out on my collection.

And I often hear things in a record that I hadn't noticed before when hearing something for the first time in many months!

edit for typo

Edited February 22, 2008 by GA Russell

[GA Russell]

I mostly listen to rock only when I'm feeling nostalgic for my youth.

Me too, montg. That's usually during the summertime. I listen to a lot of surf guitar then.

[Guest Bill Barton]

Hmmmm... That's an interesting filing system, GA!

Edited February 22, 2008 by Bill Barton

[GA Russell]

And in the last five or so years Scandinavian folk music has thrown up a whole new world.

Bev, a few months ago I was given a promo by ECM of a Scandinavian folksinger named Sinikka Langeland. The album is called Starflowers. I didn't review it because I didn't think anyone here would be interested.

It's the only Scandinavian folk music I have ever heard, so I don't know how to compare it to others of that genre. I enjoy it because it is unique in my collection. I can't say that I understand it, or that it's up your alley, but you might like it too.

[A Lark Ascending]

And in the last five or so years Scandinavian folk music has thrown up a whole new world.

Bev, a few months ago I was given a promo by ECM of a Scandinavian folksinger named Sinikka Langeland. The album is called Starflowers. I didn't review it because I didn't think anyone here would be interested.

It's the only Scandinavian folk music I have ever heard, so I don't know how to compare it to others of that genre. I enjoy it because it is unique in my collection. I can't say that I understand it, or that it's up your alley, but you might like it too.

Not a name I know, GA. But then, I've only scratched the surface.

There are three very cheap compilations on Northside records (a US company that lisences Scandinavian folk and organises tours) that give a wonderful overview of this music. I had them recommended to me about five years ago on a board and was knocked sideways by them. Ended up changing my holiday plans and going to Sweden!

They are called Nordic Roots 1, 2 and 3 and can be found at the foot of this page:

http://www.noside.com/

At $5 each they are ideal for anyone wanting to try something quite different from their normal listening. Brilliant driving music!

**************

I suspect having wide tastes is more the norm than the exception, once you get out of adolescence (where strict loyalty to a genre is part of securing an identity). I've rarely encountered hostility on the four boards I've known when rabbiting about music beyond jazz. The 'This is a jazz board, only talk jazz' comment is not all that common.

Certainly, the people who programme music in UK arts centres realised this some time ago. I recall reading somewhere how in the 90s there was a realisation that the people turning up for a World concert were often there for a Jazz or Classical. Increasingly marketing is directed that way - if I go to a concert somewhere and end up on a mailing list I end up being sent details of music across the board.

[seeline]

Langeland is new to me, too. I haven't heard the entire album, but it seems to fit into the ECM definition of Scandinavian music - a bit dark, avant, moody, etc. What I have heard has been pretty impressive.

Here's some copy from the label:

"Starflowers is the striking ECM debut of folk singer and kantele player Sinikka Langeland from Finnskogen, Norway's 'Finnish forest'. It features her settings of the poems of Hans Børli (1918-89) and is performed with an outstanding ensemble that opens up the songs to improvisation. In its inspired intertwining of folksong, literature, and Nordic 'jazz' it may be considered a characteristic ECM production, but it is also a logical extension of the work Sinikka has been developing over the last two decades."

Edited February 22, 2008 by seeline

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I "explore what I already have" by starting each New Year with the resolution to listen to all of my CDs at least once in the calendar year. For the first time in a number of years, in 2007 I actually did it.

Phew! I managed 90% in 2004, but it was a hell of an effort. Normally, I manage somewhere between 60 and 70 per cent of my older albums (> 1 year old at start of the year), but resolve each year to play all the albums I failed to play the previous year. I haven't managed that yet, either - there are 27 I haven't played for ten years or more (but reasons for that).

But, as one's collection gets bigger, the weight of the older albums could prevent adequate exploration of the new - and I think that would be something I wouldn't want to happen. So I would want it to be easy for my resolutions to be derailed

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

I would give anything for an opportunity to relive the feeling that came over me when I first heard Bessie sing on a scratchy recording and didn't have a clue as to who she was or what she represented--all I knew was that she reached out from that little radio speaker and changed my life.

A guy who went by Sailor Vernon, from whom I used to buy a lot of blues and gospel albums in the early eighties first brought this phenomenon to my attention. It's true, you can't ever experience your first kiss (&etc) again.

That's something I've been wondering about too those past years (a sure sign that you DO get older? ). However, I think I do manage to recapture some of that feeling whenever I pull out the actual albums that I bought way back when in my beginning collector's days - those albums discovered downstaires at Dobell's during my school class trips to London in the 70s, etc., or that first Folkways "Mountain Music Bluegrass Style" album located in a local record store, etc.

Even if I later came to explore the wider context of all the music first discovered back then (making you realize those records weren't THAT special because there is so much more in the same style) the feelings experienced when I brought those albums home still come alive again to a degree when I spin those records.

Anyway, I've been through what most described here too. Though over the years I've been listening to more and more jazz, there have always been periods when you listen more to one particular kind of jazz (or related music) and far less to another. An R&B period might be followed by a West Coast Jazz period or even a period of contemporary Retro swing (where you touch on contemporary rockabilly bands again too).

Currently I'm back to the roots in a way similiar to Allen Lowe's - 1930/40s string bands and Western Swing as well as pre-war jazz off the beaten tracks, e.g. Territory bands, which is where things come full circle again. If you explore the music in a direction that runs crosswise to the usual way the history of jazz and other musical styles (that are interrelated more than you first realize) is presented, you discover fascinating new musical relationships you had not been aware of before - which is a fine way of avoiding tiring your favorite music!

But forcing myself to listen to ALL or almost all my albums in regular turns - no way I could manage that (or would want to). But even the day of the "dust gatherers" will come again ...

Edited February 22, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[Tom Storer]

I'm pushing 50, and no longer have to listen to jazz all the time, as I did when I was younger. I progressively opened up to other music over the years. Now I just let my mood take me where it will, whether it's jazz, country, Indian classical, Sinatra, gospel... whatever I get into. As a result of being less exclusively a jazz listener, I find I'm less involved in new developments. Once upon a time I had to listen to everything that was happening if only to decide whether I liked it or not, but now I have less time to do that. I'm no longer conversant with all the brand new stuff that believes it is blazing new trails, and in general have accepted that there's no way I can cover all there is to cover in the time remaining, so fuck it, I'm just looking for pleasure, not necessarily discovery.

I also don't feel any need, as Jim does, for the music I listen to intimately reflect today's changing life, etc. I personally am pretty much stable, and as life goes on I feel I can continue to evolve without at the same time having to change my musical tastes as well, any more than my dining habits, wardrobe, address, etc. Therefore I don't feel like I'm running away from life or anything by still listening to a lot of stuff I've listened to a lot before.

The fact that I had to give up my iPod to protect my hearing means I've been listening to a lot less music, period, over the past year. I was philosophical about it for a while but it's starting to get to me.