Scriabin

[Late]

Hi All,

I was wondering if you could list some recommended recordings of Scriabin's music. Would also like to hear some names that I might not know about — e.g. contemporaries of Scriabin, or composers whose music is in the same vein but lesser known.

Thanks!

L

[Guy Berger]

Late -- I will probably take some grief for saying this, but I have V Ashkenazy's performance of the sonatas and really like them. I am not familiar with any other versions.

Guy

[Michael Weiss]

My favorite is Michael Rudy, Op. 62 through 74, on Calliope

[Michael Weiss]

Would also like to hear some names that I might not know about — e.g. contemporaries of Scriabin, or composers whose music is in the same vein but lesser known.

From someone who plays, lives and breathes this music, I highly recommend Karol Szymanowski's Masques, Metopes, Mazurkas, 3rd Piano Sonata, and Etudes, op. 33, among other works.

Recordings by Marc Andre Hamelin on Hyperion and Pietr Andreszewski (Virgin Classics)

AND

Samuil Feinberg's sonatas, especially #2 through #9 (out of 12)

Recorded (many exclusively) by Christophe Sirodeau, and Nikolaos Samaltanos on these two volumes

In terms of harmonic, rhythmic and melodic complexity --

I used to say if Chopin is (for comparison purposes only!, the classical equivalent of) Bird, then Scriabin is Trane.

Now I say if Scriabin is Bird, then Szymanowski and Feinberg are Trane.

I also highly recommend Jenny Lin's "Preludes To a Revolution" on Hanssler

[Larry Kart]

I've heard tell that this Joanna Domanska Szymanoswki recital is as good as it gets:

http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/cgi-b...Some&RPP=25

A copy is making its way toward me.

Haven't heard Hamelin's Szymanowki but have never liked anything he has done that's crossed my path. In particular, I can't stand his Medtner, which would be not a good sign for his Szymanoswki, for me at least.

Here are two back-and-forth posts about Hamelin's Alkan from the estimable pianist Nicolas Hodges that say everything I could say about Hamelin and much more:

Nic: You simply hear the notes with Hamelin, not the music.

>I think his playing the Concerto is one of the most masterful performances

>by a pianist today, precisely because he is able to ignore issues of the

>music's difficulty and concentrate entirely on an effortless demonstration

>of Alkan's structural integrity.

Nic: He demonstrates only his own deafness to harmonic change. This is

apparent on page 1, and on. I can take you through it's weaknesses bar

by bar if you'd like. Seriously.

The Hyperion Alkan disc is much better - and the only disc of Hamelin's

which to me sounds like the work of a musician of any stature (and I

have virtually all of them, for my sins).

>Generally speaking, Hamelin is not an

>UNDERLINER of harmonic changes. He doesn't feel the need to present

>details to his audience on a silver platter.

Nic: It's not a matter of underlining but of following what (for me at least)

are the basic, undeniable impulses that come about because a modulation

is something other than a change in a pattern of dots.

>For his admirers, the

>details speak by virtue of his clarity, sensitivity, and concern for the

>long-line.

Nic: Clarity yes, but not of structure, only of text. Sensitivity to what?

Not to line, not to harmony, not to texture (ever heard him produce a

half-light?). For me at least, Hamelin denies the music its very existence.

Some examples:

p2, line 2, first 3 bars. Passing through 3 keys, but Hamelin plays them

all the same. There is no sense of modulation, or of moving up, or

moving anywhere come to that.

p2, line 3, bar 3. Alkan reiterates the f of the start, implying either

a further reinforcement or a return after some different colouring. This

is a crucial moment in the first paragraph. It's the highest point

registrally and the most impassioned. Hamelin plays this chord as

cleanly and flatly as everything else before it. No sense of arrival, or

questioning. This is a disaster structurally.

p2, line 3, last 3 bars. Passes through 5 keys in the space of 10 beats,

Hamelin again fails to notice it, or do anything with it at all.

p2, line 4 and 5. Two fortissimo phrases identical on the page apart

from harmonic position and function. It would be suicide to play them

the same. What does Hamelin do? He plays them the same. And it's

tedious.

p3, line 1. Why is this verbatim repetition there? Does Alkan want

intensification, confirmation, a dance-like swing? Either way Hamelin

does nothing with it. Each of the three repetitions is identical.

The first time Hamelin does anything differently from a player piano is

p3, line 2, bars 3-4. He is sensitive to something for a moment (it

passes), but it has taken 31 bars for him to find some music.

Need I go on?

[Epithet]

My favorite is Michael Rudy, Op. 62 through 74, on Calliope

Opus 65, but, hell yeah! How did you come upon this?

[Alexander Hawkins]

There's a wonderful 'Vers La Flamme' on YouTube by Horowitz where he plays fistfulls of wrong notes, and even remembers the piece incorrectly (I think - I don't have the score with me) - and yet, it's a *phenomenal* performance.

[Alexander Hawkins]

although believe it or not, my computer speakers have just stopped working, so I can't hear it to jog my memory!

[Guest Bill Barton]

I'm by no means an expert on his music as some folks here appear to be, but two recordings in my collection that I enjoy immensely are:

Valery Gergiev/Alexander Toradze/Kirov Orchestra, St. Petersburg - Prometheus (coupled with Stravinsky's The Firebird on the Philips label) and Gwhyneth Chen's recording of Fantasy in B Minor, Op. 28 and Sonata No. 3 in F-sharp Minor, Op. 23 (particularly the latter - this CD on ProPiano also has Stravinsky's Three Movements from Petrouchka).

[porcy62]

Out of topic, but I found this on Wiki:

Theosophist and composer Dane Rudhyar wrote that Scriabin was "the one great pioneer of the new music of a reborn Western civilization, the father of the future musician", and an antidote to "the Latin reactionaries and their apostle, Stravinsky" and the "rule-ordained" music of "Schoenberg's group."

that sounds frightening and interesting at the same time. I admit I am very fond of history so "reborn Western Civilization" "Latin reactionaries" and "rule-ordained" clicked my curiosity, considering the story of XX century. Interesting perspective, though paradoxical, considering that Stravinsky was a cosmopolitan russian who spent most his life in Western Civilized world and Schoenberg a jew, banned by the "rule-ordained " Nazis. So where's the place of Scriabin in the stream of History, at the end he spent most of his life in Russia, well, the western cultural part of Russia.

Just a sidenote, might worths some investigation...or Dane Rudhyar said a bullshit.

Sorry, I might have post it in the Coherence is overrated thread.

I beg your pardon, go on with the thread.

[7/4]

Out of topic, but I found this on Wiki:

Theosophist and composer Dane Rudhyar wrote that Scriabin was "the one great pioneer of the new music of a reborn Western civilization, the father of the future musician", and an antidote to "the Latin reactionaries and their apostle, Stravinsky" and the "rule-ordained" music of "Schoenberg's group."

that sounds frightening and interesting at the same time. I admit I am very fond of history so "reborn Western Civilization" "Latin reactionaries" and "rule-ordained" clicked my curiosity, considering the story of XX century. Interesting perspective, though paradoxical, considering that Stravinsky was a cosmopolitan russian who spent most his life in Western Civilized world and Schoenberg a jew, banned by the "rule-ordained " Nazis. So where's the place of Scriabin in the stream of History, at the end he spent most of his life in Russia, well, the western cultural part of Russia.

Just a sidenote, might worths some investigation...or Dane Rudhyar said a bullshit.

Sorry, I might have post it in the Coherence is overrated thread.

I beg your pardon, go on with the thread.

Interesting points, but I don't know what to make of them.

[Larry Kart]

some of Ham's Alkan is the best we have, or at least necessary bc there are so few recordings. the Villa Lobos disc is also worthy.

Compared to Nelson Friere and David Bean, for two, MAH's Rudepoema is nada. As for the "best we have" syndrome, especially with a composer as quirky as Alkan who needs special understanding and advocacy, I can't count the number of times I've settled for that "the best we have" crap, only to discover that you're not only much better off with someone who gets it, no matter his or her less than perfect pianism, especially with a composer where "getting it" is so crucial, but that some of those "best we have" performances are so misleading as to be almost worse than nothing at all. For Alkan, I'd much rather be in the various and variable hands of Raymond Lewenthal, Ronald Smith, Huseyin Sermet et al. than listen to MAH's fluent inconsequentiality. As for Medtner, I'm forgetting some good people right now, but certainly there's f------ Medtner himself.

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm with Larry on this. Wish I still had the Bean Rudepoema record.

[7/4]

From Wikipedia

Edited February 18, 2008 by 7/4

[Chuck Nessa]

Did I mention his friends called him Al.

[Larry Kart]

Or compare this excerpt from the opening of Alma Petchersky's "Rudepoema"

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...style=classical

to Hamelin's frigid YouTube performance

[Late]

Thanks guys. Keep the recs coming. I have a line on the Sudbin Scriabin, so I'll probably take the plunge. The Hamelin's at the local library, so I'll check it out too.

[porcy62]

Out of topic, but I found this on Wiki:

Theosophist and composer Dane Rudhyar wrote that Scriabin was "the one great pioneer of the new music of a reborn Western civilization, the father of the future musician", and an antidote to "the Latin reactionaries and their apostle, Stravinsky" and the "rule-ordained" music of "Schoenberg's group."

that sounds frightening and interesting at the same time. I admit I am very fond of history so "reborn Western Civilization" "Latin reactionaries" and "rule-ordained" clicked my curiosity, considering the story of XX century. Interesting perspective, though paradoxical, considering that Stravinsky was a cosmopolitan russian who spent most his life in Western Civilized world and Schoenberg a jew, banned by the "rule-ordained " Nazis. So where's the place of Scriabin in the stream of History, at the end he spent most of his life in Russia, well, the western cultural part of Russia.

Just a sidenote, might worths some investigation...or Dane Rudhyar said a bullshit.

Sorry, I might have post it in the Coherence is overrated thread.

I beg your pardon, go on with the thread.

Interesting points, but I don't know what to make of them.

You're not supposed to, I'd like to deeping the things if I'd have some skills, like reading sheet music for example.

[7/4]

any thoughts on this one?

Alexander Scriabin: The Complete Piano Sonatas

Ruth Laredo, piano (Nonesuch

)

[Larry Kart]

any thoughts on this one?

Alexander Scriabin: The Complete Piano Sonatas

Ruth Laredo, piano (Nonesuch

)

Avoid at all costs.

[7/4]

any thoughts on this one?

Alexander Scriabin: The Complete Piano Sonatas

Ruth Laredo, piano (Nonesuch

)

Avoid at all costs.

Uh oh...too late for me.

[Larry Kart]

If you're looking for a bargain, there's Szidon, which EDC mentioned. I've been impressed by Bernd Glemser's Vols. 1 & 2 on Naxos, but Vol. 3 hasn't appeared yet, and it's been a while since Vol. 2; maybe Glemser flew the Naxos coop.

[Larry Kart]

oh believe edc, i know the perils of, say, Geoffrey Douglas Madge

& pace someone's Alkan argument, underlining ** every ** harmonic change is no ideal either

Madge's Busoni set is a perfect example.

It was Nicolas Hodges, by way of me, and he didn't say anything about responding to "every" harmonic change but noted that MAH was responsive to none of them in the examples Nic gave, which violated the nature of the music. Nic BTW is excellent both in his modern music areas of speciality and in 19th Century stuff as well. I think his site had a link to a brilliant Schumann Arabesque:

http://www.nicolashodges.com/index2.htm

[7/4]

i would definitely like a Ludus Tonalis also since i no longer have the oop Mustonen (which, if someone can hook an elder up... i'm sure a suitable trade possible, inc. nude ** ACTION ** photos of Madame Blavatsky.)

hooba hooba!!

[Larry Kart]

nude ** ACTION ** photos of Madame Blavatsky.)

I've already seen madame's Blavatsky.