England's Dreaming

[Jazzjet]

Yes, the 'Sospiri' was a very interesting listen.

Actually passed by the Elgar house near Great Malvern (actually, nearer to Worcester) this year as I was doing some work in the area. Lovely part of England and his music is infused with the feel of the place.

I spent some time there about 20 years back and went inside the house. As you say, highly evocative.

Fascinating programn on Elgar's life and music on BBC4 recently. Some of those late choral works (e.g. the one about the owls) sound totally unlike his usual pomp & pagentry stuff - more impressionistic and Holst-like.

Yes, I really enjoyed that.

Like you, 'Owls' really got to me. Never heard it before.

The one that really undid me was 'Sospiri' - I'd heard it before but never really clocked into it. God knows why as it's 5 minutes of utter heartbreak.

The programme gave some idea why!

There's actually less 'pomp & pagentry' in Elgar than you'd imagine - it just get played more often. He was actually a master of the dreamy tributary! Symphony No. 1, scherzo!

I really enjoyed that Elgar programme as well. The kind of thing that BBC 2 used to do back in 'the good old days'.

Have you read 'Electric Eden : Britain's Visionary Music' by Rob Young? It starts in the late 19th century with William Morris, Elgar etc and works through Vaughan Williams to the history of folk music, psychedelia etc. Very wide ranging and a bit wordy in parts but a fascinating read.

I have - read most of it in Cornwall this summer, as it happens! I associate it with mackerel salad and beer!

Enjoyed the unusual unusual leaps he made between the classical and folk world. Nice to see people like Moeran and Warlock get such space. I just found the ending unconvincing - his examples of who he saw as carrying the spirit up to date seemed random and missed almost completely the amazing English folk revival of the last 10-15 years. And how could he leave out XTC?

As I recall he wasn't too keen on Elgar.

By no means a perfect book and, I agree, there are some large gaps and unfeasible leaps and links. However, it has helped re-trigger the inner folkie in me. Any more and I'll have to move to Penzance ( twinned with Narnia ).

[A Lark Ascending]

Yes, the 'Sospiri' was a very interesting listen.

Actually passed by the Elgar house near Great Malvern (actually, nearer to Worcester) this year as I was doing some work in the area. Lovely part of England and his music is infused with the feel of the place.

I spent some time there about 20 years back and went inside the house. As you say, highly evocative.

Fascinating programn on Elgar's life and music on BBC4 recently. Some of those late choral works (e.g. the one about the owls) sound totally unlike his usual pomp & pagentry stuff - more impressionistic and Holst-like.

Yes, I really enjoyed that.

Like you, 'Owls' really got to me. Never heard it before.

The one that really undid me was 'Sospiri' - I'd heard it before but never really clocked into it. God knows why as it's 5 minutes of utter heartbreak.

The programme gave some idea why!

There's actually less 'pomp & pagentry' in Elgar than you'd imagine - it just get played more often. He was actually a master of the dreamy tributary! Symphony No. 1, scherzo!

I really enjoyed that Elgar programme as well. The kind of thing that BBC 2 used to do back in 'the good old days'.

Have you read 'Electric Eden : Britain's Visionary Music' by Rob Young? It starts in the late 19th century with William Morris, Elgar etc and works through Vaughan Williams to the history of folk music, psychedelia etc. Very wide ranging and a bit wordy in parts but a fascinating read.

I have - read most of it in Cornwall this summer, as it happens! I associate it with mackerel salad and beer!

Enjoyed the unusual unusual leaps he made between the classical and folk world. Nice to see people like Moeran and Warlock get such space. I just found the ending unconvincing - his examples of who he saw as carrying the spirit up to date seemed random and missed almost completely the amazing English folk revival of the last 10-15 years. And how could he leave out XTC?

As I recall he wasn't too keen on Elgar.

By no means a perfect book and, I agree, there are some large gaps and unfeasible leaps and links. However, it has helped re-trigger the inner folkie in me. Any more and I'll have to move to Penzance ( twinned with Narnia ).

Despite his enthusiasm, I still don't really get the Incredible String Band.

[Jazzjet]

Yes, the 'Sospiri' was a very interesting listen.

Actually passed by the Elgar house near Great Malvern (actually, nearer to Worcester) this year as I was doing some work in the area. Lovely part of England and his music is infused with the feel of the place.

I spent some time there about 20 years back and went inside the house. As you say, highly evocative.

Fascinating programn on Elgar's life and music on BBC4 recently. Some of those late choral works (e.g. the one about the owls) sound totally unlike his usual pomp & pagentry stuff - more impressionistic and Holst-like.

Yes, I really enjoyed that.

Like you, 'Owls' really got to me. Never heard it before.

The one that really undid me was 'Sospiri' - I'd heard it before but never really clocked into it. God knows why as it's 5 minutes of utter heartbreak.

The programme gave some idea why!

There's actually less 'pomp & pagentry' in Elgar than you'd imagine - it just get played more often. He was actually a master of the dreamy tributary! Symphony No. 1, scherzo!

I really enjoyed that Elgar programme as well. The kind of thing that BBC 2 used to do back in 'the good old days'.

Have you read 'Electric Eden : Britain's Visionary Music' by Rob Young? It starts in the late 19th century with William Morris, Elgar etc and works through Vaughan Williams to the history of folk music, psychedelia etc. Very wide ranging and a bit wordy in parts but a fascinating read.

I have - read most of it in Cornwall this summer, as it happens! I associate it with mackerel salad and beer!

Enjoyed the unusual unusual leaps he made between the classical and folk world. Nice to see people like Moeran and Warlock get such space. I just found the ending unconvincing - his examples of who he saw as carrying the spirit up to date seemed random and missed almost completely the amazing English folk revival of the last 10-15 years. And how could he leave out XTC?

As I recall he wasn't too keen on Elgar.

By no means a perfect book and, I agree, there are some large gaps and unfeasible leaps and links. However, it has helped re-trigger the inner folkie in me. Any more and I'll have to move to Penzance ( twinned with Narnia ).

Despite his enthusiasm, I still don't really get the Incredible String Band.

Nor me, although you couldn't be seen without the '5000 Layers' LP about your person in the 60s. That said, there was a nice clip of them in the recent BBC 4 profile of Jac Holzman and Elektra.

[A Lark Ascending]

Nor me, although you couldn't be seen without the '5000 Layers' LP about your person in the 60s. That said, there was a nice clip of them in the recent BBC 4 profile of Jac Holzman and Elektra.

I was just a bit too young for that. I connected to Fairport first - bought my first folk-related CD from money earned doing a traffic survey in Newquay!

During the Folk Britannia season on BBC4 there was a film shown from the 60s about folky types camping on the Cornish beaches. I think it had that 'mystic' pull. Hilarious interviews with outraged Newquay councillors - today its surf-bums they seem to be hot under the collar about. Nothing much changes.

Seek out Chris Wood's recordings if you don't know them, particularly 'The Lark Descending'. As good as anything from the golden age - great music, steeped in the past but very much of the present in its lyrics.

'Electric Eden' gets a very positive review in this month's 'Gramophone', of all places!

Edited December 1, 2010 by A Lark Ascending

[A Lark Ascending]

Holst's works outside 'The Planets' came up in the 'What are you Listening To' thread a few weeks back.

There's a nice article in this month's Gramophone addressing the perception of Holst as a one work composer. Andrew Davis argues the case for his other works.

Interesting comment towards the end. Imogen Holst said that after hearing a performance of the Schubert Quintet in 1934, just before his death, Holst expressed regret that his own music lacked 'warmth'. Would have been interesting to hear what he might have done next had he lived - his 20s work was very much in that detached neo-classical style of the time.

[A Lark Ascending]

Tony Palmer has just completed a film documentary on Holst, due to be screened in the UK at Easter (Easter Sunday, I think).

Should be good - I loved his RVW doc of a couple of years back.

[Jazzjet]

Tony Palmer has just completed a film documentary on Holst, due to be screened in the UK at Easter (Easter Sunday, I think).

Should be good - I loved his RVW doc of a couple of years back.

Thanks for the advance warning. If it's as good as the Vaughan Williams film it will be a treat.

[A Lark Ascending]

Don't forget the Holst programme - this Sunday, BBC4, 9.00 p.m. Two hours and 20 minutes!

[A Lark Ascending]

Finished watching the programme last night. Enjoyed it thoroughly. It's got a bit of a beating in some quarters:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?1871-Holst-IN-THE-BLEAK-MIDWINTER-film/page6

All the criticisms individually hold, but I didn't feel they took away from the overall success of presenting to a wider audience a composer who outside of 'The Planets' and 'In the Bleak Midwinter' is hardly known. [i have to say I did wonder as I was watching where all those mountains in the Egdon Heath sequence came from!]

The one think I felt was seriously missing was the music from after the Great War. No mention of the big choral pieces (Hymn of Jesus, Choral Symphony, Choral Fantasia) or the neo-classical pieces that give a very different picture of Holst (though we did get a bit of the wonderful Capriccio early on and the Lyric Movement at the end).

[A Lark Ascending]

On the Holst theme:

His birthplace in Cheltenham.

"The Ninth Planet - Budweiser, Bringer of Hangovers"

[A Lark Ascending]

I see Dutton Vocalion have just started putting things on iTunes (both domestically and internationally). Only a few so far but hopefully all will eventually be downloadable.

iTunes available so far:

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.asp?cat=396

The broader British catalogue:

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.asp?cat=366

This label has been doing in recent years what Lyrita used to do - exploring the off-road footpaths of British classical music. Mainly late-19thC to mid 20thC but also some contemporary music (not yet up for download). I'd strongly recommend their David Matthews series - contemporary classical that is neither austerely avant-garde nor orchestral pop. Should appeal to many who like their Mahler or Sibelius.

They also do vintage British jazz (discussed elsewhere) and bucket loads of 'light' music and nostalgia. Hopefully some of the former can come out this way too.

They do delete recordings so maybe this will allow them to do a Chandos and make everything permanently available.

Edited August 16, 2011 by A Lark Ascending

[Jazzjet]

Referring back to Rob Young's excellent book 'Electric Eden : Unearthing Britain's Visionary Music', I've compiled a Spotify playlist to reflect the discography at the end of the book.

It's a big playlist, not surprisingly as it covers over 100 years of music and as it takes in numerous forms of music under its broad definition.

Any suggestions on what else to include - or take out - would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy it.

Electric Eden

[A Lark Ascending]

Black Sabbath!!!!!!!!!?????

Eden!

[Jazzjet]

Black Sabbath!!!!!!!!!?????

Eden!

I know. Reading the book again, they're in there mainly because of the imagery on their first album sleeve, rather than their music.

Eden has been saved because I've just removed it!

Any thoughts on the classical selections?

[A Lark Ascending]

They seem to do the trick - though Bax's imagination was more inspired by Ireland and, later, Scotland.

I'm not sure if your list has to have a reference in the text or just be in the spirit.

If the latter I'd include (as music that has a very 'English' feel):

Bridge - There is a Willow Grows Aslant a Brook

Vaughan Williams - 5th Symphony 3rd Movement

Tippett - Concerto for Double String Orchestra (slow movement)

Holst - A Somerset Rhapsody (and for something much darker, Egdon Heath)

Arnold - Symphony 5 (slow movement)

Butterworth - A Shropshire Lad

Percy Grainger - A Lincolnshire Posey

[Leeway]

Referring back to Rob Young's excellent book 'Electric Eden : Unearthing Britain's Visionary Music', I've compiled a Spotify playlist to reflect the discography at the end of the book.

It's a big playlist, not surprisingly as it covers over 100 years of music and as it takes in numerous forms of music under its broad definition.

Any suggestions on what else to include - or take out - would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy it.

Electric Eden

I don't have Spotify and so cannot check your list. But I do hope that Derek Bailey and John Stevens are represented.

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't have Spotify and so cannot check your list. But I do hope that Derek Bailey and John Stevens are represented.

I suspect Bailey and Stevens were reacting against the tradition mapped out in 'Electric Eden'.

But there's room in these isles for all manner of traditions.

[Jazzjet]

They seem to do the trick - though Bax's imagination was more inspired by Ireland and, later, Scotland.

I'm not sure if your list has to have a reference in the text or just be in the spirit.

If the latter I'd include (as music that has a very 'English' feel):

Bridge - There is a Willow Grows Aslant a Brook

Vaughan Williams - 5th Symphony 3rd Movement

Tippett - Concerto for Double String Orchestra (slow movement)

Holst - A Somerset Rhapsody (and for something much darker, Egdon Heath)

Arnold - Symphony 5 (slow movement)

Butterworth - A Shropshire Lad

Percy Grainger - A Lincolnshire Posey

Thanks, Bev. The Holst pieces were in the text, or in the discography at the back of the book, as was the Butterworth.

I'll search for all these on Spotify and add them if I can.

( The range of music on Spotify is extraordinary but even I still get irrationally frustrated when I can't find something. )

[A Lark Ascending]

Another one worth considering is Britten's late suite 'A Time There Was' - uses folk sources but in a more tart way than the rich, Romanticism of most of the English cowpat school (no criticism intended there of the latter - I'm besotted with the music of cowpatism).

[Leeway]

I don't have Spotify and so cannot check your list. But I do hope that Derek Bailey and John Stevens are represented.

I suspect Bailey and Stevens were reacting against the tradition mapped out in 'Electric Eden'.

But there's room in these isles for all manner of traditions.

Oh, I see what the list was about. I was thrown off by the Black Sabbath reference, but on closer reading I see that Sabbath was itself thrown off. But as you said:

[A Lark Ascending]

A lot of this depends on at what point in history you draw the line.

There's a volume of letters between Vaughan Williams and Holst called 'Heirs and Rebels'.

In their time using English folk music as a source in order to find a way to a vernacular English music was considered highly dangerous to those wedded to the Germanic tradition.

[Jazzjet]

Another one worth considering is Britten's late suite 'A Time There Was' - uses folk sources but in a more tart way than the rich, Romanticism of most of the English cowpat school (no criticism intended there of the latter - I'm besotted with the music of cowpatism).

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, it's not on Spotify.

You can't have everything I guess.

[A Lark Ascending]

Coming up on Friday on BBC 4 (a welcome relief from all of those Top of the Pops reruns):

"The Lark Ascending" (7.30 p.m.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019c9t9

Sadly, celebrity guided.

And then a repeat of 'The Passions of Vaughan Williams':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00bfmt4

Missed that one first time.

For contrast you get REM at the Beeb straight afterwards.

Edited January 8, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[Jazzjet]

Coming up on Friday on BBC 4 (a welcome relief from all of those Top of the Pops reruns):

Thanks for that, Bev. At least the TOTP 1977 reruns are better than the 1976 ones. Makes you appreciate that the 70s weren't such a golden age after all.

[A Lark Ascending]

At least the TOTP 1977 reruns are better than the 1976 ones. Makes you appreciate that the 70s weren't such a golden age after all.

Our usual habit of recalling the past based on the fragments that endured.

Be intriguing to hear TOTPs from 1776. Bet it wasn't all Haydn and Mozart.