mikeweil Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Melvin Rhyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Unless I'm missing something, Peter Brotzmann would qualify. Freddie Redd Sunny Murray (not counting his aborted Columbia record or the Impulse sideman dates) Dizzy Reece Edited February 10, 2008 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 BN is not a "major"? I'm specifically wondering about John Patton being on the list. Well, here's two: Horace Tapscott Billy Harper Blue Note until it was sold to Liberty epitomized the idea of "independent" - small, not always having great distribution, and at the mercy of those distributors to pay for the product. And John Patton recorded several times after his Blue Note years ended - his Nilva album was the focus of one discussion recently as it appears to be set for a reissue, and there were two recordings for the Japanese DIW label. Edit to say D'OH! I got confused and thought I was in the other thread - yes, I'd say Big John qualifies. So would I! In fact, he was in the list I posted at the start of the thread! Al Grey then Jimmy Forrest (naturally comes to mind) Nat Adderley Don Patterson John Patton Hank Crawford Jack McDuff Etta Jones Johnny "Hammond" Smith Richard "Groove" Holmes Red Holloway Harold Mabern Rhoda Scott Red Garland Horace Parlan Now, I'm not sure about either Tapscott of Harper - did they make as many as fifteen albums as leaders? MG PS Yes - now I see that Tapscott & Harper both made at least 15 albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Some other suggestions: George Lewis Jaki Byard Walter Bishop Jr. Kenny Drew Barry Harris Tal Farlow Frank Foster Frank Wess Clifford Jordan Harold Land Howard McGhee Charles McPherson Duke Pearson Art Pepper Red Rodney George Wallington Don Ewell Lu Watters I'm thinking that there must be many trad jazz musicians who qualify. They often recorded quite a bit over the years for smaller labels. Danish Papa Bue may be one example. Some good 'uns in there. But also some who don't qualify - Duke Pearson didn't have a twenty year recording career. Tal Farlow made an album for CBS/Sony in 1976. Jaki made an album for Chant du Monde, which I think is a French subsidiary of EMI. His first album was released by CBS/Sony, though I'm not clear who it was recorded for. Barry Haris recorded for Columbia in 1977. I only know of 13 albums by Harold Land: Land of jazz; Fox; West coast blues; Eastward ho!; Take aim; Folk music; Peacemaker; New shade of blue; Choma; Damisi; Mapenzi; Live at Junk; Xocia's dance; Lazy afternoon. Plus a few odd tracks on compilations. Lord has Art Pepper listed as the leader of a WB soundtrack to "The Gauntlet" - surely a mistake? Or is it? Red Rodney recorded for OheH in 1952. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Now, I'm not sure about either Tapscott of Harper - did they make as many as fifteen albums as leaders? for tapscott i just counted 15 albums on nimbus west http://www.nimbuswest.com/ so as he has four or five albums elsewhere (Flying Dutchman not a major?) he's in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Unless I'm missing something, Peter Brotzmann would qualify. Freddie Redd Sunny Murray (not counting his aborted Columbia record or the Impulse sideman dates) Dizzy Reece Brotzman surprised me - I thought he would have recorded for a Europen subsidiary of a major, but he didn't. Redd only made 11 albums plus about an LP's worth of EPs in Sweden. Reece only made about 12 LPs worth of material (though it's hard to count). Sonny Murray's "Big chief" was recorded for Pathe - French subsidiary of EMI. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Lord has Art Pepper listed as the leader of a WB soundtrack to "The Gauntlet" - surely a mistake? Or is it? MG Lennie Niehaus was the leader, Pepper a soloist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Does it matter, this attention to "the majors"? Benny Golson's one big clam of an album was made for Columbia; Arthur Blythe's music devolved while at that label, and Dexter's music recorded for Steeplechase or Black Lion rates with his best of Columbia, though the smaller labels are more likely to keep his music in print. Something to chew on. If it weren't for independants and the mavericks who run them jazz would be the swing era (in terms of records) and then scraps after that. The majors often just miss the boat on jazz. So maybe this list is more of an honor roll than some "lost to the masses" lament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Does it matter, this attention to "the majors"? Benny Golson's one big clam of an album was made for Columbia; Arthur Blythe's music devolved while at that label, and Dexter's music recorded for Steeplechase or Black Lion rates with his best of Columbia, though the smaller labels are more likely to keep his music in print. Something to chew on. If it weren't for independants and the mavericks who run them jazz would be the swing era (in terms of records) and then scraps after that. The majors often just miss the boat on jazz. So maybe this list is more of an honor roll than some "lost to the masses" lament. It's kind of the other way round. I do agree with you - most of the best music in jazz, blues, R&B, soul, funk, gospel, hip hop, reggae has been made by indies. The general story is that an artist develops while recording for an indie and, when a clear marketability has been attained, a major picks them up and (often) tries to make them even more commercial than they were. This tends to lead to crap, though there are honourable exceptions. This thread is trying to find exceptions to that general story. I've always thought of these musicians, whether I liked them or not, as being the real heroes. And of course, a few people who don't qualify because they happened to make a couple of albums for Verve after MGM bought it - Ammons and Stitt for example. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Melvin Rhyne Mel hasn't (yet) made 15 albums, as far as I know. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Now, I'm not sure about either Tapscott of Harper - did they make as many as fifteen albums as leaders? for tapscott i just counted 15 albums on nimbus west http://www.nimbuswest.com/ so as he has four or five albums elsewhere (Flying Dutchman not a major?) he's in You missed my edit - yes, he's made loads. So has Harper. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 just as I would call Capitol a major before its acquisition by EMI. Capitol is difficult, I agree. The firm recorded a lot of stuff. But it was still a small firm owned by three people: Johnny Mercer, Buddy de Sylva and Glenn Wallichs. And I remember reading, many years ago, in a Nat Cole bio (or autobio) that it was only Nat who kept the firm afloat. Relying on one artist for solvency doesn't match up to my expectations of a major. Perhaps it's appropriate to regard it, in those days, as a wannabe major. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Melvin Rhyne Mel hasn't (yet) made 15 albums, as far as I know. MG Shouldn't be too long, unless something terrible happens: 10 listed on Criss Cross as leader or co-leader 1 on Jazzland 1 on Savant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Melvin Rhyne Mel hasn't (yet) made 15 albums, as far as I know. MG Shouldn't be too long, unless something terrible happens: 10 listed on Criss Cross as leader or co-leader 1 on Jazzland 1 on Savant Indeed! MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 BN is not a "major"? I'm specifically wondering about John Patton being on the list. Well, here's two: Horace Tapscott Billy Harper Blue Note until it was sold to Liberty epitomized the idea of "independent" - small, not always having great distribution, and at the mercy of those distributors to pay for the product. And John Patton recorded several times after his Blue Note years ended - his Nilva album was the focus of one discussion recently as it appears to be set for a reissue, and there were two recordings for the Japanese DIW label. Edit to say D'OH! I got confused and thought I was in the other thread - yes, I'd say Big John qualifies. So would I! In fact, he was in the list I posted at the start of the thread! That's why I mentioned his name. If BN was to be considered a "major" then Big John should NOT be on the list. Sorry for the confusion. Here's more: Hal Galper Ricky Ford George Cables John Hicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Red Rodney recorded for OheH in 1952. Doh! I have the OKeh Jazz CD, and dismissed Arnett Cobb and Johnny Griffin because they are on it, but forgot that Rodney is too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 I only know of 13 albums by Harold Land: Land of jazz; Fox; West coast blues; Eastward ho!; Take aim; Folk music; Peacemaker; New shade of blue; Choma; Damisi; Mapenzi; Live at Junk; Xocia's dance; Lazy afternoon. Plus a few odd tracks on compilations. That's 14! Then there are these also: I was also pondering whether one could count any of the albums by the group he co-led with Hutcherson, like this one, but thankfully he makes the list anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Not fair counting bootlegs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Land makes the list anyway, but this opens up another interesting question, since MG speaks about recordings, not releases. If Blue Note or Uptown had released the Cellar recording in 2007 instead of Lone Hill Jazz, would it have counted as an album he recorded? Or does the session have to have been recorded by the label originally? That clearly excludes Bellson's Impulse album if so. I'm just asking; MG gets to decide the rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 There is/should be a difference if the artists have the performance recorded and then sell it to a recording company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Jaki made an album for Chant du Monde, which I think is a French subsidiary of EMI. His first album was released by CBS/Sony, though I'm not clear who it was recorded for. I think it was recorded for Candid, but not released at the time. But if Chant du Monde is a subsidiary of EMI, he is off the list anyway. And another doh for Duke Pearson. Over 15 albums but not close to 20 years obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Chant du Monde may now be in EMI's control, but I'm not sure it was at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Sonny Murray's "Big chief" was recorded for Pathe - French subsidiary of EMI. MG Indeed, I forgot that one - and I even own it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 I only know of 13 albums by Harold Land: Land of jazz; Fox; West coast blues; Eastward ho!; Take aim; Folk music; Peacemaker; New shade of blue; Choma; Damisi; Mapenzi; Live at Junk; Xocia's dance; Lazy afternoon. Plus a few odd tracks on compilations. That's 14! Then there are these also: but thankfully he makes the list anyway. Damn! And I used to have "Hear ye"! And nice to note that I can't count much better than when I was three. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 There is/should be a difference if the artists have the performance recorded and then sell it to a recording company. I agree with you Chuck. I wouldn't want to count boots but, how would you know? Which of (I guess) the Harold Land albums is a boot? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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