NBC suspends David Shuster

[JSngry]

Oh, I've gotten "pimp" in my face from both my kids for almost 10 years now. Having seen the real deal "in action", I was appalled for years, and still don't cotton to the notion if I think about it too much. But it has become what it has become and it what it is, and all the righteous indignation in the world ain't gonna make it otherwise.

Hell, when I was a teen, if you said "pissed off" in public, you were liable to get cuffed. Now it's routinely said everywhere (including public school classrooms, by instructors and administrators) and nobody bats an eye. Same with "suck" and a bunch of other stuff. "Pimp" is about halfway to the point to non-eyebrow raising status in general culture & "bitch" is past the point of no return.

Don't like it? Can't say that it tickles my jimmy either. But good luck on doing anything about it.

[JSngry]

Really, "pimped out" means nothing more these days than being put on conspicuous display to attract attention & money. Willfulness has nothing to do with it. If Larry did a tour for his book, he'd be "pimping" it, and if Chuck came along, he'd be "pimping out" for Larry. Never mind what you & I think/know/feek it to mean to us, that just ain't it, just as telling somebody they suck doesn't imply that they are fellatiatic in nature. It just doesn't.

Trust me, in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon.

[JSngry]

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...mpin%26%2339%3B

[MoGrubb]

Schuster is just another dumbass that doesn't/didn't know he's a dumbass. I'm glad to see that there are still some standards in NBC News.

[catesta]

Really, "pimped out" means nothing more these days than being put on conspicuous display to attract attention & money. Willfulness has nothing to do with it. If Larry did a tour for his book, he'd be "pimping" it, and if Chuck came along, he'd be "pimping out" for Larry. Never mind what you & I think/know/feek it to mean to us, that just ain't it, just as telling somebody they suck doesn't imply that they are fellatiatic in nature. It just doesn't.

Trust me, in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon.

Exactly.

"you have officially been pimped"

[robviti]

i personally don't like the use of the word "pimpin'." i know some people argue it doesn't mean what it used to, but that's not the whole picture, is it? actually, it does mean the same thing in many situations. to this day, prostitutes continue to be exploited, battered, and even murdered by the men who profit from them. setting that aside for a moment, i'm just not comfortable with the general population using terms that have been used to denigrate groups of people, rationalizing that it's okay because that's not what i meant. i understand the concept of certain groups taking back terms that once were used to put them down, like homosexuals referring to one another as "fags." jim might be right, but i don't look forward to the day when it's acceptable for some kid to say "nigger," "cunt," "kike," etc. because it doesn't mean that anymore.

[Larry Kart]

Really, "pimped out" means nothing more these days than being put on conspicuous display to attract attention & money. Willfulness has nothing to do with it. If Larry did a tour for his book, he'd be "pimping" it, and if Chuck came along, he'd be "pimping out" for Larry. Never mind what you & I think/know/feek it to mean to us, that just ain't it, just as telling somebody they suck doesn't imply that they are fellatiatic in nature. It just doesn't.

Trust me, in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon.

OK -- one more time. "Pimped out" (passive) doesn't mean the same thing as "pimping herself out" (active) or its equivalent; and I think the latter makes much more sense here. To take your example, yes if I did a tour for my book, I'd be "pimping" it, but if Chuck came along only because I told him that he had to and he was spouting lines that I told him he had to say, he'd be being "pimped out." Not at all the same thing. Sure, "in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon." But why has this cropped now, attached to this person?

[JSngry]

i personally don't like the use of the word "pimpin'." i know some people argue it doesn't mean what it used to, but that's not the whole picture, is it? actually, it does mean the same thing in many situations. to this day, prostitutes continue to be exploited, battered, and even murdered by the men who profit from them. setting that aside for a moment, i'm just not comfortable with the general population using terms that have been used to denigrate groups of people, rationalizing that it's okay because that's not what i meant. i understand the concept of certain groups taking back terms that once were used to put them down, like homosexuals referring to one another as "fags." jim might be right, but i don't look forward to the day when it's acceptable for some kid to say "nigger," "cunt," "kike," etc. because it doesn't mean that anymore.

Hey, I hear you, believe me. But a big bunch of other people feel otherwise, that's all I'm saying.

[JSngry]

Really, "pimped out" means nothing more these days than being put on conspicuous display to attract attention & money. Willfulness has nothing to do with it. If Larry did a tour for his book, he'd be "pimping" it, and if Chuck came along, he'd be "pimping out" for Larry. Never mind what you & I think/know/feek it to mean to us, that just ain't it, just as telling somebody they suck doesn't imply that they are fellatiatic in nature. It just doesn't.

Trust me, in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon.

OK -- one more time. "Pimped out" (passive) doesn't mean the same thing as "pimping herself out" (active) or its equivalent; and I think the latter makes much more sense here. To take your example, yes if I did a tour for my book, I'd be "pimping" it, but if Chuck came along only because I told him that he had to and he was spouting lines that I told him he had to say, he'd be being "pimped out." Not at all the same thing. Sure, "in another generation or two, a news personality using Shuster's lingo will not be uncommon." But why has this cropped now, attached to this person?

And yes, I understand your distinction as well. But the way the people who are using it are using it, that's waaaaay too much attention to detail.

Again, my point here is not to argue for or against this, just to point it out.

As to why it's "cropped now, attached to this person", hey - her dad was the First Mack President, remember... That, and shit just happens in its time. Don't ask me why, it just does.

And honestly, Shuster has always struck me as somebody who was "secretly" as much Jimmy Kimmel (who, say what you will about him, apparently more than earns the right to tap Sarah Silverman, an accomplishment that inspires little but awe & respect here...) as he was Irving R Levine. That David Gregory's another one. Hell, MSNBC kinda seems like The Players Lounge just waiting to happen, if you know what I mean, & don't tell me that Nora O'Donnell ain't in on it either... "Clubhouse", sure, but such is life.

[papsrus]

Maybe Schuster should take over Safire's "On Language" column, since he seems to be on the cutting edge of modern usage.

Language evolves. But it does reflect, among other things, our level of civility. I can't see myself using the phrase "pimpin" in serious conversation. But I guess if you're floundering around (or is it "foundering?") trying to find things to rip the Clintons about, this is where you end up.

Tune in next week, when Chris Matthews calls Hillary a "Ho" for taking $$ from Big Pharma. Drug users will react with outrage, and Matthews will be forced to apologize on air and offer that what he really meant to call her was a "pimp." All will be forgiven, and progress marches on.

[JSngry]

I can't see myself using the phrase "pimpin" in serious conversation.

Oh, I can, and have. But only among people I know will "get it" (and golly gee, there are such folks!). I mean, personal resevations aside, if you get as much "youth talk" in your face as I (and some of my peers who also have actively engaged relationships with their older youngsters) do, after awhile, it starts making sense in its own context, and, hey... Dave Chappelle is a funny motherfucker, if you know what I mean... Besides, "street talk" is something I kinda grew up with anyways, so the "attitude" isn't all that "unfamiliar", and if I pretend to be shocked by shit that I myself once indulged in rather freely along the way,, hey, not a good thing, really. But, as related on this board at least once in the past, I have seen real pimps in action, doing their dirty work on a woman or two who displeased them, so the "pimp" metaphor is one that I use very advisedly in general conversation, and even then, if I think about it, I get queasy.

But I digress...

Shuster's error, imo, wasn't one of usage, it was one of judgment. No matter how "cable-y" the MSNBC culture is (and frankly, I watch them a lot for political news/coverage specifically because of their "clubhouse" vibe - politics being the ultimate clubhouse in my mind, so why not?), it's still an annex of the MSM, and as such, only so much "steet cred" - real or posed - is allowed before things get...antsy.

But to turn this another direction, maybe - just as Bill Clinton doing the MTV thing in 1992 was a "positive signal" to that era's "young voters", might not the Clinton's rather...energetic response to Shuster's flippancy send a different signal to this generations' same?

I gotta wonder...

[Patrick]

Count me among those that enjoy Chris Matthews, David Shuster, David Gregory, etc. Not a fan as in fanatic, but I enjoy their attempts to cut through much of the BS (and to my mind, they appear to do this more than several other cable news alternatives), and I enjoy the varying analysts/commentators (even Pat Buchanon...as an analyst, not as a politician).

Shuster's mistake was one of judgment. Plain and simple, he's on the air too much. With MSNBC basically being all politics all the time (until the late hours when it's time for "documentaries" about prison life...different type of pimpin' there...), the MSNBC talent is spending a lot of time talking on the air--much more time than during non-election times. So Shuster is on Morning Joe, and Tucker, and Hardball, and Olbermann etc. And sometimes he's a fill-in host on one of these shows, or hosting coverage from the SC primary on the weekend. So it's more than a 5 minute news segment that gets edited before being broadcast. Shuster made a mistake, and appeared to compound it somewhat by complaining that the daughter was campaigning for her mother, but was not speaking to any reporters. To me, this rationalization seems to have nothing to do with pimping (...but I don't have any youngsters). So punish Shuster for some period of time, and let him return as a reporter (more than a host/talker). I only hope that not everyone at MSNBC ends up in severe self-edit mode if/when HRC ever appears again (Matthews already did this the one time I saw him speak with her on the air).

I also hope that the affected campaign doesn't play the victim card too much. Shuster apologized, a number of times, and is being suspended. Show some dignity and toughness (toughness they claim Obama has not yet proven he has), and turn back to (or toward) campaigning about the issues. While it often appears to be win at all costs (i.e. play every single card), I will hold out hope following this unfortunate event.

[Larry Kart]

And honestly, Shuster has always struck me as somebody who was "secretly" as much Jimmy Kimmel (who, say what you will about him, apparently more than earns the right to tap Sarah Silverman, an accomplishment that inspires little but awe & respect here...

Tapping her would be an accomplishment in one sense -- like breaking into a cave where the world's entire supply of PMS was stored -- but not much fun, I reckon.

[rachel]

And honestly, Shuster has always struck me as somebody who was "secretly" as much Jimmy Kimmel (who, say what you will about him, apparently more than earns the right to tap Sarah Silverman, an accomplishment that inspires little but awe & respect here...

Tapping her would be an accomplishment in one sense -- like breaking into a cave where the world's entire supply of PMS was stored -- but not much fun, I reckon.

Usage of the verb "to tap" someone makes me pissy. Larry's comment made me forget about that for a moment.

[papsrus]

Usage of the verb "to tap" someone makes me pissy. Larry's comment made me forget about that for a moment.

All bets are off when it comes to Silverman, bless her heart.

[The Red Menace]

This is getting absurd. HRC's letter, just released, to the president of NBC News:

Dear Mr. Capus,

Thank you for your call yesterday. I wanted to send you this note to convey the depth of my feeling about David Shuster’s comments.

I know that I am a public figure and that my daughter is playing a public role in my campaign. I am accustomed to criticism, certainly from MSNBC. I know that it goes with the territory.

However, I became Chelsea’s mother long before I ran for any office and I will always be a mom first and a public official second.

Nothing justifies the kind of debasing language that David Shuster used and no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient.

I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language.

There’s a lot at stake for our country in this election. Surely, you can do your jobs as journalists and commentators and still keep the discourse civil and appropriate.

Sincerely,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

One thing to argue over what sort of indignation the original comment deserved--quite another to keep whining about it in the manner above. Fine with me, I think continuing to carry on like this (the above reads to me as "your apologies aren't enough, I want him fired") makes her look bad, and I'm an enthusiastic supporter of her Democratic opponent.

Edited February 9, 2008 by The Red Menace

[The Red Menace]

Might have been nice if she'd sent a similar note to her buddy Andrew Cuomo after he stated that Obama wouldn't be able to keep getting away with his "shuck and jive" in the electoral season.

[Chuck Nessa]

A stupid and self destructive response.

[Brownian Motion]

A stupid and self destructive response.

I disagree. It's a smart and politically astute response.

[papsrus]

A stupid and self destructive response.

I disagree. It's a smart and politically astute response.

Yeah, it's not the first time a politician has twisted the knife just a little after they've got someone down. She's basically playing to the moms of America (of which there seem to be very few here), me thinks, and maybe people who are generally hostile toward the MSM (whatever that is) to begin with.

Next week we won't even remember this. There'll be some new skirmish to divert our attention. But the battle is won in small increments. And so it goes ....

[Chuck Nessa]

A stupid and self destructive response.

I disagree. It's a smart and politically astute response.

Yeah, it's not the first time a politician has twisted the knife just a little after they've got someone down. She's basically playing to the moms of America (of which there seem to be very few here), me thinks, and maybe people who are generally hostile toward the MSM (whatever that is) to begin with.

Next week we won't even remember this. There'll be some new skirmish to divert our attention. But the battle is won in small increments. And so it goes ....

She lost my vote, nomatter what.

[BruceH]

This clubhouse is definitely better than the original.

That's my kind of clubhouse.

[Christiern]

Very dumb response from Hillary--it strengthens my decision to not give her another vote--a decision I made a long time ago, the first time she voted in support of Bush's war.

[Larry Kart]

A stupid and self destructive response.

Agreed. She should have adopted a Bre'r Rabbit posture.

[papsrus]

Very dumb response from Hillary--it strengthens my decision to not give her another vote--a decision I made a long time ago, the first time she voted in support of Bush's war.

Given Obama's great, great showing Saturday night, that might be a moot point, with any luck.