NCAA Hoops 2007-2008

[Soulstation1]

my boy tom-cat had a final of

Arizona vs USC

he's sheet is at the bottom of the stack

[papsrus]

Entering the evening games Friday, I'm perfect in the East, have two losses in the Midwest (USC%&*@), just one in the South, but my West bracket is a pretty shaky with three opening-round losses. Still have UCLA and Duke playing the final game in that bracket, with UCLA emerging. ... Overall, a not too bad start, considering some of the upsets (WKU and San Diego???).

[Soulstation1]

nice dye job on greg gumbel

his fro looks like it was dipped in some ink

[Edward]

Whew! That game was far too close if you are a Bruins fan. I knew that Texas A&M would pose a challenge, but I didn't think that they could play that well after the departure of Acie Law.

I am sorry, Aggie87. I am sure that is a tough loss to have to swallow - I would not have been consolable if the Bruins had lost. Looking to next year, how many key players does A&M stand to gain and lose?

Edited March 23, 2008 by Edward

[Aggie87]

Thanks, Edward. Very nice comeback by the Bruins. A&M basically stopped scoring for a while there in the 2nd half. Credit to the Bruin defense.

I think that Sloan got fouled on that final drive to the basket, but I'm seeing it through biased eyes right now. The Bruins coach emphatically said it was a clean block, but I don't know.

A&M will probably lose Deandre Jordan, the big 7 foot freshman who's mostly lost out there. He's a dunker and that's about it, but he'll be a top 5 draft pick anyway, because he's big. They're also losing seniors Joe Jones, Dominique Kirk, and backup Beau Muhlbach. They've got a good core coming back though (Sloan, Roland, Carter, Davis, Elonu), so I think they'll be ok next year.

[jlhoots]

Wisconsin to the Sweet 16.

Still getting no respect.

[Edward]

Wisconsin to the Sweet 16.

Still getting no respect.

Wisconsin should have received a 2-seed, and I thought as much when the tournament seedings were announced.

[Bright Moments]

ahem.... lets co CANES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noj]

I knew the Aggs would be a tough matchup for the Bruins. Again, a few friendly non-calls and a few buckets from losing. UCLA can't expect to keep landing butter side up, they need to find some sort of fluidity on offense. Love and Collison accounted for nearly all of the Bruins' points, and Shipp scored not one bucket.

[Edward]

I knew the Aggs would be a tough matchup for the Bruins. Again, a few friendly non-calls and a few buckets from losing. UCLA can't expect to keep landing butter side up, they need to find some sort of fluidity on offense. Love and Collison accounted for nearly all of the Bruins' points, and Shipp scored not one bucket.

Overall, I have no complaints about the refereeing. Of course, I thought that there were a few calls and non-calls (benefiting both teams) that should have been called otherwise.

As for the Bruins' play, I completely agree. Westbrook will need to play much better offensively and Shipp will have to contribute SOMETHING on offense if the Bruins are to proceed any further. Luc was totally out of sync offensively, but let's hope that that was just a result of his brief layoff and that he will play much better here on out.

It is, perhaps, a bit surprising that the Bruins fared much better shooting from behind the arc than the Aggies. Three-point shooting is definitely an area of concern for the Bruins with Shipp's play as of late and Michael Roll being out (for the duration?)

[Bright Moments]

ahem.... lets co CANES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dang

[Aggie87]

I think that Sloan got fouled on that final drive to the basket, but I'm seeing it through biased eyes right now. The Bruins coach emphatically said it was a clean block, but I don't know.

Not that it changes anything, but it does appear that Sloan was fouled on that last drive. Maybe the resulting free throws would have tied the game and forced overtime, but it doesn't matter I guess. The first picture below is from the LA Times, who also acknowledge that it looked like a clear foul.

edit - I've read that the NCAA took away that last slam dunk bucket from UCLA today. So the final was 51-49.

Good luck to the Bruins the rest of the way. I think this may turn out to have been their toughest test.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Aggie87

[Edward]

I think that Sloan got fouled on that final drive to the basket, but I'm seeing it through biased eyes right now. The Bruins coach emphatically said it was a clean block, but I don't know.

Not that it changes anything, but it does appear that Sloan was fouled on that last drive. Maybe the resulting free throws would have tied the game and forced overtime, but it doesn't matter I guess. The first picture below is from the LA Times, who also acknowledge that it looked like a clear foul.

edit - I've read that the NCAA took away that last slam dunk bucket from UCLA today. So the final was 51-49.

Good luck to the Bruins the rest of the way. I think this may turn out to have been their toughest test.

It would be hard to argue with those photos. I hate when games are potentially decided by bad calls/non-calls down the stretch. Sloan was not a terribly good free-throw shooter for the season (about 67.3%), but that should not placate A&M fans (and rightly so). Maybe Sloan would have missed one and the Bruins would have still won in regulation. Maybe Sloan would have hit both from the charity stripe, and the teams would have headed to overtime. Or maybe Sloan would have hit the first, and an Aggie rebounded the missed second, giving Texas A&M a shot to win in regulation. We will never know.

Thanks for the well wishes.

[papsrus]

My Midwest bracket's blown -- had Georgetown vs. Vandy

Still looking good in the East, with Tennessee and UNC.

As long as Texas and UCLA (gulp) keep winning, the other side of the bracket should be OK. Stanford is looking pretty solid though and could give Texas trouble. ... Lots 'o' trouble.

Davidson ... wow!

[Aggie87]

I moved on already from the A&M/UCLA ending, but it's still getting a bit of ink around the country, surprisingly. I thought it would die fairly quickly, outside of A&M circles. Luke Winn comments on the non-call at SI, and Jay Bilas has blasted the non call a couple of times on espn.com:

Toughest Team: Texas A&M. The Aggies had to play Kansas State and Kansas in the Big 12 tournament in Kansas City, and they had to play UCLA in Anaheim. If the officials had the guts to call a foul at the end of the game, what was next? The Lakers at the Staples Center?

Worst No Call: At the end of the UCLA-Texas A&M game, Donald Sloan drove the lane for a potential game winning shot. Sloan was fouled. There is no question about it. A foul should have been called by the officials, and the shooter should have been protected. UCLA's Josh Shipp clearly hit Sloan on the arm on the shot, and the officials either missed it or chose not to call it because it was a late-game situation. Either way, the no call was unacceptable. The contact on the play was not incidental. No reasonable official can look at that play and suggest otherwise.

And this guy in Milwaukee has a novel approach for situations like this:

Upon further review ...

Seeing as how Bobby Knight manages to uncork a new, absolutely stupid idea about how to change college basketball once a week, I figured I might as well join in the fun.

My idea may be brilliant.

As they say, it's a fine line between the two.

I say let's introduce an instant replay challenge in the tournament. That's right. A "challenge." Each team gets to challenge a call, once per game.

That's it. Any call you want, including NON-CALLS.

How can that be?

Well, take for example the finish in the Texas A&M vs. UCLA game. When A&M's Donald Sloan drove past his man and rose up for a shot to tie the game, a pair of Bruins defenders rose with him to (seemingly) BLOCK the shot and send the ball careening into the backcourt where time would expire.

Seemingly.

Now, you can see these two photos (and I'm sure there are more) which show CONCLUSIVELY that Sloan was in fact, HAMMERED on the play!

Of course, when I saw the play live, I screamed "FOUL!" instinctively from my recliner.

(I do this often, usually followed by: "Ho ... ho ... Hold up! Ball!" This is met with confused looks of insanity from my wife and kids. Obviously, THEY have never had to wait 45 minutes to get in a "run" at the local Y.)

How did I know it was a foul? Well, a few ways. One, I was once a certified Virginia State High School basketball referee (Hey, how 'bout that ...). I had refereed all four years in college for intramurals, and prided myself on doing some of the most intense frat league games where you get hazed all game long by the pledges who have been sent for JUST that reason -- to make your life miserable. I also did any number of A-League games in college where it was not uncommon at all to see reverse dunks and alley-oops.

Having worn "the lanyard of shame" as we refs like to sometimes call it, I developed that unscientific art of determining what is usually a foul and what is not.

On a play like Sloan's, it happened so fast that it was not an easy call to make, but not impossible. While the refs may not have seen with clarity both Shipp's arm raked across Sloan's shooting arm, and Collison's hand on his elbow, the first thing you needed to access as a ref is this: "Was a clean block in that circumstance likely?"

Answer: No, not really. Especially not when you saw Shipp's body in relation to Sloan's.

Furthermore, Sloan almost was knocked flat on his back, another sign that the ball was not poked away cleanly.

Alas, being a virtual home game for UCLA, with the crowd in full roar, and the misguided cliché of "let the players determine the game" being so prevalent today, the refs swallowed their whistles.

And the Aggies had to sulk home in defeat.

Had instant replay been in effect, A&M could have challenged the non-call. If replays were conclusive -- and I think they would have been -- then it's easy to ignore what followed and stop the clock at the moment of the foul and award the free throws.

Would this lead to "chaos" and "four-hour games" as some have derided me for suggesting?

Not in the least.

I said: ONE challenge per game. Period!

OK, what if a foul is called, a team challenges it and they are correct, what then?

Easy: jump ball. You can't assume possession on a foul that was reversed to be "not a foul," so you do the next best thing. Jump it up. It would discourage using your one challenge on a foul call anyway, since the best outcome is not nearly what using it on a non-call would be -- two free throws.

Plus, think of all the other worthy plays that might benefit from having this ONE challenge in your pocket. A ball knocked out of bounds on a late, key possession or guy stepping on the end line or sideline ...

How about the hardest call of them all: a block / charge?

Even with replay, you will still get controversy about calls NOT overturned when you swear they should be. But again, it's just ONE call per game. What is the harm in that?

The NCAA already uses replay for three-point attempts and shot clock violations. Why not expand it just a little? Even on a trial basis, what could it hurt?

As it stands, Texas A&M has no standing in the halls of college basketball royalty. Thus, the outrage on this is very mild, if it even exists at all.

But can you imagine if North Carolina got a non-call like this in the final against UCLA? Ty Lawson getting hammered like this to deny Roy Williams another championship would create a media firestorm like you've never seen.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the NCAA hasn't had a refereeing disaster of this order yet. Call me nuts, but I think a one-challenge per game replay rule would be worthy insurance against it.

If nothing else, see what Bobby Knight thinks of my idea.

[Soulstation1]

1st sheet

elite eight

unc

tenn

kansas

g-town XXX

memphis

stanford

ucla

xavier

final four

unc vs kansas

memphis vs ucla

final

kansas over memphis

2nd sheet

elite eight

unc

louisville

kansas

wisconsin

pitts XXX

stanford

ucla

baylor XXX

final four

unc vs kansas

stanford vs ucla

final

unc over stanford

[Soulstation1]

I need Stanford to beat

Texas

Memphis

UCLA

I won $5 on Xavier vs West Virginia

[Soulstation1]

Gotta give it up

Texas kicked stanford's ass

[Soulstation1]

There are gonna be some good games today

I'd like to see Memphis vs Kansas in the final

That way I could win the pool

[Soulstation1]

Memphis looked good in the first half

[Edward]

Memphis looked good in the first half

They looked better in the second (or did UCLA just look worse?)

Congratulations to Memphis. I hope that you win your pool, Soulstation1.

[clifford_thornton]

There are gonna be some good games today

I'd like to see Memphis vs Kansas in the final

That way I could win the pool

As a Kansan, I am curious to see the results of this. Tonight was an interesting game for the Jayhawks.

[Soulstation1]

Looks like I have the pool wrapped up by a single point

I have Kansas winning and so does the person in 2nd place

I'll get about $112

I beleve both underdawgs won

I got lucky out of 30 sheets UNC and UCLA were on 21/22 sheets for 1st or 2nd place

[clifford_thornton]

Kansas!

[Edward]

Kansas!

Congratulations to Kansas and its fans. (I am certainly not a Jayhawks fan, but I do not like Calipari.)