Death of CDs?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I recently bought the Jutta Hipp album with Zoot Sims from Amazon UK as a download and a part of the download was a pdf file containing all the sleeve art and notes. Why can't everyone do it.

I asked Amazon UK about this a couple of years ago - actually phoned them up! They said they could only do what the record companies allowed them to do. I said they ought to be proactive and push for this stuff when doing deals with the record companies. Maybe someone listened?

MG

[gmonahan]

Yes, used cd stores are doing ok, but without new cds, they'll become increasingly antiquarian. I guess I could live with lossless downloads if there were more of them AND if one could always get personnels and liner notes, but the whole point of shifting to downloads is to make the process cheaper, and the accompanying materials cost money. Grrrrrrrr.

gregmo

So, what you're saying is that, were FLACs to become a regular alternative medium available by consumer choice from firms like iTunes or Amazon or whoever (I've recently seen a Spanish download firm with very interesting material, but only available to people on Spanish ISPs) there'd be an economic opportunity for someone to open up a business alongside iTunes & Amazon, flogging discographical info and the like to people purchasing downloads from the DL companies.

Over to Mike Fitzgerald

MG

Oops--my ignorance is showing. Mike, do you do that?!

gregmo

[ejp626]

Yes, used cd stores are doing ok, but without new cds, they'll become increasingly antiquarian. I guess I could live with lossless downloads if there were more of them AND if one could always get personnels and liner notes, but the whole point of shifting to downloads is to make the process cheaper, and the accompanying materials cost money. Grrrrrrrr.

gregmo

So, what you're saying is that, were FLACs to become a regular alternative medium available by consumer choice from firms like iTunes or Amazon or whoever (I've recently seen a Spanish download firm with very interesting material, but only available to people on Spanish ISPs) there'd be an economic opportunity for someone to open up a business alongside iTunes & Amazon, flogging discographical info and the like to people purchasing downloads from the DL companies.

Over to Mike Fitzgerald

MG

Oops--my ignorance is showing. Mike, do you do that?!

gregmo

I'm sure they don't now, and probably have 0 interest in doing this. I can't really imagine the labels they license material from would go for FLAC downloads rather than a physical product that theoretically can be kept to a limited offering.

But they may go in this direction at the bitter end.

[paul secor]

The anti-"pop" thing on this board misses the mark. Pop in general has created more that is absolutely memorable than jazz by miles,and much more that speaks to people's lives and feelings.

Pretty big statement to make. Depends on whose memories you're talking about, David. Also whose lives and feelings you're talking about, and exactly how those lives and feelings have been spoken to.

Speaking for myself, pop in general has created a higher percentage of crap than jazz has, and much of the crap in the jazz world has come when jazz has tried to enter the pop world at the expense of the music.

All of this is a matter of opinion. You have yours and I have mine. I just wanted to weigh in and say that the statement you've made is a big one and open to a lot of discussion. More than I want to take on in detail.

Edited September 12, 2012 by paul secor

[skeith]

I was just in J&R Music World in Manhattan for the first time in a couple of weeks and was shocked to see that the Jazz section, as well as the Country, Blues, World Music, Classical... all of these sections are about one half the size they used to be.

Apparently, the very large DVD section that was in the basement was brought up to the 2nd floor and also reduced in size. To make room for DVDs, the jazz and other section were severely reduced.

I walked by Norman's Sound and Vision and it is closed - maybe moved to Brooklyn - and Rockit Scientist closed completely.

[A Lark Ascending]

Worth remembering that the desire for 'the best possible sound' and extensive liner information is probably limited to a small part of the marketplace. Not enough to make it a priority for the music industry as a whole.

Many of us musical obsessives are content with very good sound and just need access to the basics of who is playing, date of recording etc (though I do like a pretty, iconographic picture for a sleeve).

In terms of documentation many classical site are miles ahead already - you can download all the artwork, librettos, details etc from the site, even without purchasing the recording. Makes sense to me as it makes possible updating the information and removing errors. I tend to grap the front cover and the basic track/personnel info and leave the rest.

[Jazzmoose]

The anti-"pop" thing on this board misses the mark. Pop in general has created more that is absolutely memorable than jazz by miles,and much more that speaks to people's lives and feelings.

[JohnJ]

The anti-"pop" thing on this board misses the mark. Pop in general has created more that is absolutely memorable than jazz by miles,and much more that speaks to people's lives and feelings.

Damn straight. The whole jazz snobbery thing is just so damn predictable...and diehard jazz fans wonder why outsiders see them as elitist pricks.

Well, to be fair, it is a jazz board!

Surely, John, you're not arguing that the fact that this is a jazz board is a half decent reason to be contemptuous of others who like other kinds of music?

I don't imagine there are many people on this board for whom jazz is their sole musical diet.

MG

Not at all, I buy a lot of different types of music myself. Just pointing out that a lot of people here are quite passionate about their love for jazz.

[Big Beat Steve]

About where the dross is in music: I do think there is a point to downloading being pushed immensely by the desire of many music buyers to buy single tracks only and not entire albums.

And although some may sneer at this "high brow" attitude again, I do think that jazz all in all is one of those styles of music where the majority of the listeners and buyers of the music treasure what they buy and whatever they buy is bought for keeps. Because they are not only "consumers" of the music but rather collectors and they do listen more intensely on a permanent basis.

Now is this also the case with mainstrean/pop/chart etc. music churned out today? And has this been the case with mainstream/pop/chart music of past decades? Of course there were/are those who do treasure these popular styles of music and hang on for a long time, no matter what the current trends are. But are they the majority? Or is the majority of mainstream/pop/chart/music consumers made up of those who often go after todays' trends today and after tomorrow's trends tomorrow? With the result that what they download is of interest today but not in 1, 2 or 3 years from now and can and will be erased again. Expendable, consumed music.

Though IMO the "fault" lies not with the music (because any style of music, no matter how mainstream-ish it was in its day, has its core of lovers and collectors so there is some intrinsic value in ANY style of music to those who love that music beyond its fad-ish or trendy short-term appeal) but rather lies with the buyers, i.e. the majority of the buyers, those who account for the BULK of the sales. And it is for them that formats that appeal are adopted and provided. Hence the download trend IMHO.

And this is where jazz remains a special case (like other "special-interest" styles of music). Beause there the proportion of the long-term music lovers/collectors (who want to keep their music in a tangible form) vs short-term music consumers is totally different from most mainstream/pop/chart music. This doesn't prevent anybody from downloading even in jazz but this may be why downloads are not nearly as much appreciated and welcome - as shown in earlier posts.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yes, used cd stores are doing ok, but without new cds, they'll become increasingly antiquarian. I guess I could live with lossless downloads if there were more of them AND if one could always get personnels and liner notes, but the whole point of shifting to downloads is to make the process cheaper, and the accompanying materials cost money. Grrrrrrrr.

gregmo

So, what you're saying is that, were FLACs to become a regular alternative medium available by consumer choice from firms like iTunes or Amazon or whoever (I've recently seen a Spanish download firm with very interesting material, but only available to people on Spanish ISPs) there'd be an economic opportunity for someone to open up a business alongside iTunes & Amazon, flogging discographical info and the like to people purchasing downloads from the DL companies.

Over to Mike Fitzgerald

MG

Oops--my ignorance is showing. Mike, do you do that?!

gregmo

I'm sure they don't now, and probably have 0 interest in doing this. I can't really imagine the labels they license material from would go for FLAC downloads rather than a physical product that theoretically can be kept to a limited offering.

But they may go in this direction at the bitter end.

It was a joke.

MG

[ejp626]

It was a joke.

MG

Sometimes a joke is just a cigar.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

In the US, I get all my cds on-line, with the exception of an occasional visit to a used cd store. 'Course, I don't live close enough to go to Jack's!

Jack's is very close to being a vinyl shop too. The new CD section is only a few feet long and the used bins aren't nearly as full as they were during CD's heyday. I've been buying more and more vinyl these anyway so I appreciate the change. I imagine if people were still buying CDs, his stock would reflect that. He stocks what sells.

[gmonahan]

Re: MG's joke. Mike SHOULD do it!!

gregmo

Edited September 13, 2012 by Greg M.

[Face of the Bass]

What is happening to the music industry is the problem with capitalism. What I would like to do is have a revolution in this country, the main purpose of which would be to provide obscene levels of funding for the art that I think is great. If I don't think it's great, I don't care. If it is great, then I make sure that it has the best recording facilities, the best recording technology, and a wide range of cheap, readily available formats in which to listen to it. If we can subsidize corn to the point where everything we buy has high fructose corn syrup in it, we can do this.

[Pete C]

Work up a 5-year plan and present it for our perusal.

[A Lark Ascending]

What is happening to the music industry is the problem with capitalism. What I would like to do is have a revolution in this country, the main purpose of which would be to provide obscene levels of funding for the art that I think is great. If I don't think it's great, I don't care. If it is great, then I make sure that it has the best recording facilities, the best recording technology, and a wide range of cheap, readily available formats in which to listen to it. If we can subsidize corn to the point where everything we buy has high fructose corn syrup in it, we can do this.

"Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your lack of taste."