Miroslav Vitous - Universal syncopations (ECM)

[Claude]

... and Garbarek.

http://www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/recordings/1863.html

Release date September 30.

This is not (yet) a recommendation, only news. It looks amazing on paper, Infinite Search from 1969, with a comparable line up, is one of my favourite fusion records. I hope the music is fresher than the cover

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Very high potential. I think I am encouraged by the fact that the pieces are by Vitous and that it's on ECM.

Mike

[GA Russell]

Infinite Search is one of my desert island discs.

I hope this one comes close!

[Shrdlu]

Merci du "head's up", Claude!

I also love "Infinite Search". A friend of mine got the LP in the early 70s and thrashed it to death. I have heard very few other albums more than that one. Recently, I tracked down the complete session on CD. To do this, I had to get TWO CDs, each missing one track! I made a CDr in the original LP order. It still sounds absolutely fresh, and it still holds my attention all the way through. What a creative musician Miros is!

This should be a great reunion.

[Guy Berger]

Here's a review of the album.

Guy

Edited September 21, 2003 by Guy Berger

[A Lark Ascending]

Very much looking forward to this one.

[Shrdlu]

Thanks for the link to the review, Guy! Sessions that are theoretically good are sometimes a big disappointment, but, judging by this review, this album will be every bit as good as we could hope it to be. That is: one to grab as soon as funds allow.

[A Lark Ascending]

Two observations:

1. 'Infinite Search' is a wonderful album that I'm sure is a long time favourite of many. But it was made a long time ago. I'm not sure we'll be doing the new album justice by comparing it with that one right from the start. Maybe once we've got the measure of the new one, but... I'd hate to think that everything I did today would be immediately scrutinised in regard to how I did the same thing 30 years ago (no lewd comments please!).

Personally I hope its very different (though just as good). These chaps (those involved on the original, that is, and in similar music of that time period) have all moved on a long way since then. I hope it won't be one of those 'Let's recreate our glory days' outings.

2. Nice positive review linked above. I found this interesting "For many listeners who have grown tired of Garbarek’s recent solo work, his playing on Universal Syncopations will signal a return to form, yet this is not a look back; rather, it is a consolidation and move forward." Now I'd have been one of those listeners a bit weary of Garbareks recent direction up to a few months back. However, immersing myself in Scandanavian folk music of late has made me much more appreciative of the recent Garbarek. I don't think Garbarek's been 'off form'...I do think he's been doing things that are not part of the jazz norm.

Maybe 'will signal a return closer to the contemporary jazz mainstream' might be more accurate.

[Shrdlu]

I don't think any of us were expecting or requiring that the new album be just like the 1969 effort. We are just keen to hear more by these master musicians, and it's so good that this lineup has been assembled.

[A Lark Ascending]

I'm sure your right, Shrdlu.

It's just that evaluations of new discs can often be couched (quite naturally) by reference to earlier ones. Where you have a disc that has an enormous reputation followed 30 years later by a similar line-up then there's a tendency to evaluate the new by the old.

I just know we're going to read (not necessarily here) comments on the lines of 'This really isn't up to the standard of Infinite Search.' I recall similar things being said about the Remembering Shakti discs, finding them wanting by the comparison with the original Shakti. I've never really got that - the Remembering Shakti discs have obvious links of personel and style with the original group but also go off in different directions, a result of the changes the musicians have been through and the way the music world and the world in general have changed.

All I'm saying is that its probably best to leave 'Infinite Search' to one side when listening to the new disc. It might build up expections that cannot be realised.

[Joe G]

No problem for me; until this thread I had never heard of Infinite Search. I'm looking forward to aquiring both albums.

BTW Bev, I enjoy those Remember Shakti cds a lot. The Wish, from the first set, is probably my favorite Mclaughlin solo of all time.

[sal]

Joe G - my sentiments exactly on "The Wish". One of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard. If I ever get married, that one will be in the wedding!

I'm seeing Remember Shakti next Wednesday here in Chicago. The lineup from the album "The Believer" will be in the house. I saw them a couple years ago and it was a mesmerizing show.

Anyways, back to the topic, I'm greatly looking forward to "Universal Syncopations". Should be a great one.

[Free For All]

One more brief tangent- anyone ever notice that the McLaughlin recording "The Promise" has one of those "magic eye" optical illusions on the front cover?

[Joe G]

Hold on there! I didn't even know those guys were on tour! Jim and I saw them when they were at the Chicago Theater a couple of years ago. It must have been the same show you saw (if indeed it was in Chicago where you saw them). Yeah man -- we were blown away. That's a beautiful theater too. We came back the next year to see Alison Krauss, another great show.

[Joe G]

One more brief tangent- anyone ever notice that the McLaughlin recording "The Promise" has one of those "magic eye" optical illusions on the front cover?

Is it? I know it looks like one, but I never tried to see it. Interesting.

[Free For All]

Can you get in the "zone" to see those? I know some people have a hard time. There is something there, though- I thought it looked suspicious, so I did the "thing" and it worked.

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't know about the cover but 'The Promise' is probably my favourite solo McLaughlin disc of recent years. An occasion when the use of totally different line-ups playing very different styles still produces an album that hangs beautifully together.

Remembering Shakti are a marvellous live experience. I've seen them twice - once with Hariprasad Chaurasia (one of the gigs that made up some of the first RS 2CD)and once with U Shrinivas. Two superb plauers though I must express a particular liking for the flautist.

[Joe G]

Remembering Shakti are a marvellous live experience. I've seen them twice - once with Hariprasad Chaurasia (one of the gigs that made up some of the first RS 2CD)and once with U Shrinivas. Two superb plauers though I must express a particular liking for the flautist.

Then you must have this! One of my favorite albums.

[A Lark Ascending]

I've seen that one in London and nearly bought it! Next time I definitely will!

[sal]

Thanks for that recommendation Joe G. Here's another one I like as well: Making Music

Don't listen to what AMG says...they know not of what they speak.

Yeah, they are playing at the Chicago Theater again, site of the amazing show two years ago! Shakti doesn't promote its tours very well....I guess I've just been lucky to find out about them when they do take place. Tickets should still be availiable if you want to go.

[A Lark Ascending]

'Making Music' is my perfect Sunday morning record.

[Joe M]

BTW, Jan (and everyone else) sounds great, wait, make that GREAT on this new cd. Bev is right it is more mainstream than what Jan has been doing for some time now, but it's very good, and I think all fans of Jan's playing, old or new would really enjoy this, and perhaps even be a bit surprised at times.

[A Lark Ascending]

There's an interview with Vitous in this months Jazzwise. I wasn't all that aware of his history (despite knowing quite a few of his records) and it made interesting reading.

He's not one to undervalue himself. Commenting on how he is trying to bring jazz and classical music together he says:

"I am both classical and jazz musician - I actually play jazz with a classical approach - but now it has crystalised to a point it is really obvious, I am a bridge between the two musics. I am the key to these two worlds to join them..."

Now maybe the self-regard that comes across here might be a result of not speaking in his native language. But it reminded me of John Surman's comments about playing with Vitous, recorded in Jazz Review earlier this year:

"Well, first of all he's about the only guy who really can play great arco solos. And he's got a fantastic ear. Unfortunately he's got a fantastic ego as well and that's one of the things that really is difficult. It never was easy to work with Miroslav. I don't want to risk a lawsuit here but he was quite stubborn. He would go forward, his own way and sometimes he wasn't paying enough attention to Jon Christensen, John Taylor, Kenny [Kirkland] or myself in the music. He found it quite difficult if he wasn't the star. He liked to be the star, whereas we were very much more democratic. He was a fantastic player but had his own agenda about things and he wasn't an easy person to get on with. He had strong ideas about what he wanted for himself. He wasn't a team player. He had a goal and he wanted to follow that goal. But what a great talent. He had great time - just listen to "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs" with Chick and Roy. It's amazing."

Edited September 27, 2003 by Bev Stapleton

[mikeweil]

Got it today but want to give it some spins before I comment on it. Does the interview or any other source say anything about these three brass players on the CD? Were they overdubbed, "added as an afterthought", as Al Kooper put it with his Super Session horn overdubs?

Edited September 28, 2003 by mikeweil

[A Lark Ascending]

Not that I can remember. He does say that the album was originally conceived for group with orchestra but he then decided that one note from Garbarek was more powerful than the symphony orchestra. So maybe that's where some of the voicings come from.

He also mentions that the reason he as been MIA in recent years is because he has been working on his own company 'Miroslav Vitous Symphonic Orchestra Samples', making samples for synths I presume but ones that will allow a much more real approximation of a symphony orchestra. "It has been on top of the market for the last ten years," he tells us! Apparently the work he did on that led to Universal Syncopations.

He's planning to take the group - or one as close to it as possible - on the road next year; and also has plans for a quartet with Danny Gottlieb.