Teasing the Korean Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Most of us have been raised in the tradition of tin pan alley, where the songs, beautiful or not, were meant to amuse or beguile, but that's all. They were embellishments on life. What these young people seem to say is that their music isn't just decorative. And that's the pop music scene today, serious and silly, sweet and grandiose, but all of it coming out of the kids themselves. They are trying hard, but whatever young people do, they tend to overdo. The jury is still out on their social ideas, but the verdict is in on their music. A great deal of it is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Allow me to take the opposite side. My thoughts on today's popular music: ... to infinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I am close to completely out of touch with today's hits. I read this morning the list of the week's top ten, and I had never heard of any of them or the singers either. But I will say this. When I was in high school in the 60s, all of the kids on American Bandstand agreed that what they were looking for in a rock 'n' roll record was that "it had a good beat and was easy to dance to". I have heard only a few of Britney Spears' hits, but every one of them fit that bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I played a corporate "party band" gig last night, and for once,the DJ who played during our breaks actually had a feel for dance music (usually they just spin the hits and the corporate drones reflexively respond). But this cat was spinning a mix of deep hip-hop & house that had the dancefloor packed. And why not? The bass lines were viscerally throbbing, deep in the pocket, drum beats were crisp and swinging, and vocals were mixed with an ear for maximum tonal/rhythmic effectiveness. In short, the "songs" weren't anything to brag about, but the "songs" were decidedly not the object of the game. What ws the object of the game was getting people's minds and bodies in the mood to move, and the music was succeeding splendidly. So the guitar player in the band, a really nice guy about my age with first-hand tastes in popular music that go up to about the mid-70s, looks out, sees the packed floor full of youngish people all getting there groove on, and says to me, "Whatever you call this music, I don't get it, but they sure do!" His tone was actually benevolent, as if he knew there was something there, he just didn't have a clue as to what it was. Debating whether or not "popular music" is "good music" is somwhat like decidng whether or not a car is what you want based solely on looks. There's definitely cases to be made one way or the other, but really, the main object of a car is transportation, and can you find fault with people and cars who just want something that runs really well? We might want "more" (and/or "different") but if the masses just want a good, steady ride that's not a total piece of shit, hey, that doesn't mean that it's not good. Arguing the esthetics of esthetics while ignoring the fuctionality of functionality is kinda....dumb. But quite common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) I'm not really in touch with pop culture (and not just music), so won't/can't comment. I will say: (1) as the cliche goes, there's no arguing with taste; (2) it seems dangerous and even unsound to declare, as so many oldsters of my age do, that "all pop music is shit"; (3) there are so many genres/subgenres of modern pop music that generalization appears difficult. Edited January 13, 2008 by T.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm getting old, I'm out of touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm one of those old-timers (just turned 37) who likes to keep up wth what the "kids" are listening to. There is a great deal of excellent music being made today in any number of genres. We ignore it at our peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Basten II Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm one of those old-timers (just turned 37) who likes to keep up wth what the "kids" are listening to. There is a great deal of excellent music being made today in any number of genres. We ignore it at our peril. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I'm one of those old-timers (just turned 37) who likes to keep up wth what the "kids" are listening to. There is a great deal of excellent music being made today in any number of genres. We ignore it at our peril. Agreed. +1 (as the kids seem wont to do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I stopped trying to keep up with current-day pop music in about 1982 (if I ever DID try to "keep up," which is doubtful.) I will say that it seems most of the current day pop-rock (or alt-rock, or whatever you want to call it) bands that do something for me are heavily influenced by/referring to older pop styles---Fountains of Wayne, Sloan, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Most of us have been raised in the tradition of tin pan alley, where the songs, beautiful or not, were meant to amuse or beguile, but that's all. They were embellishments on life. What these young people seem to say is that their music isn't just decorative. And that's the pop music scene today, serious and silly, sweet and grandiose, but all of it coming out of the kids themselves. They are trying hard, but whatever young people do, they tend to overdo. The jury is still out on their social ideas, but the verdict is in on their music. A great deal of it is good. Well, you guys have all said how out of touch you are, and you've proven it. Aside from the embarrassingly dated nature of the words above, most of them don't even apply to pop music today. These are Leonard Bernstein's words from his 1967 TV special about "today's pop music." He was talking about songs such as "No Man Can Find the War" by Tim Buckley and "Surf's Up" by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGrubb Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 My Thoughts on Today's Popular Music? Well, I dunno, but I'm agin' it. Anyhow, if I liked to dance and/or play for pop dancers I'd like some pop stuff. Since I don't and don't, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 At 31, barely got it then and really don't now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Totally dig this new band...Paramore. Here's the title track from their 2005 debut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk09OSHnuio their second album came out last year. Not a bad cut on it. Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sApyi41SoVM&NR=1 In concert they rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-9qm0uL7fU Very melodic hard rock. She's got a fantastic voice...not the usual studio trickery...auto-tuned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Most of us have been raised in the tradition of tin pan alley, where the songs, beautiful or not, were meant to amuse or beguile, but that's all. They were embellishments on life. What these young people seem to say is that their music isn't just decorative. And that's the pop music scene today, serious and silly, sweet and grandiose, but all of it coming out of the kids themselves. They are trying hard, but whatever young people do, they tend to overdo. The jury is still out on their social ideas, but the verdict is in on their music. A great deal of it is good. Well, you guys have all said how out of touch you are, and you've proven it. Aside from the embarrassingly dated nature of the words above, most of them don't even apply to pop music today. These are Leonard Bernstein's words from his 1967 TV special about "today's pop music." He was talking about songs such as "No Man Can Find the War" by Tim Buckley and "Surf's Up" by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks. Those darn kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I don't really think of Tim Buckley as "pop" (except maybe his later, crappier recordings) but that's just me. No sympathy for Van Dyke Parks here, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexk Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I don't really think of Tim Buckley as "pop" (except maybe his later, crappier recordings) but that's just me. No sympathy for Van Dyke Parks here, either. I wouldn't call them "pop" exactly, but... Tim Buckley's last 3 albums are amazing! OK, "Sefronia" is maybe a bit patchy, but both "Greetings From L.A." and "Look At The Fool" are dirty, sleazy and pretty damn funky records. What's not to like? Van Dyke Parks' trilogy of "Song Cycle", "Discover America" and "Clang Of The Yankee Reaper" is also great, but I can sort of understand why some people seem to REALLY dislike him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Take your complaints to Leonard Bernstein, if you can find him. I was simply quoting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Debating whether or not "popular music" is "good music" is somwhat like decidng whether or not a car is what you want based solely on looks. There's definitely cases to be made one way or the other, but really, the main object of a car is transportation, and can you find fault with people and cars who just want something that runs really well? We might want "more" (and/or "different") but if the masses just want a good, steady ride that's not a total piece of shit, hey, that doesn't mean that it's not good. Arguing the esthetics of esthetics while ignoring the fuctionality of functionality is kinda....dumb. I think of it this way : When someone says , " Today's pop music is awful " , they should be understood not as asserting that aesthetic appreciation is the sole function of music , but rather as asserting that pop music has other functions which they don't value as highly or at all . Among these functions are the promotion of group identification , facilitation of courtship , expression of aggression or anxiety and the enablement of the release of physical tension through dancing . In this way , older people who say they have no use for pop music mean it literally . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Just shows that the classics never go out of style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 In this way , older people who say they have no use for pop music mean it literally . And they are correct. Wannabes cling to their sometimes imagined affinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 ...pop music has other functions which they don't value as highly or at all . Among these functions are the promotion of group identification , facilitation of courtship , expression of aggression or anxiety and the enablement of the release of physical tension through dancing . In this way , older people who say they have no use for pop music mean it literally . Geez, what about just having a simple song in your heart because you really are happy? Oh wait, I guess there are plenty of people who don't have use for that. Anything that simple can't be real, can it. Life is nothing if not a series of psychologically motivated "events". Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 ...pop music has other functions which they don't value as highly or at all . Among these functions are the promotion of group identification , facilitation of courtship , expression of aggression or anxiety and the enablement of the release of physical tension through dancing . In this way , older people who say they have no use for pop music mean it literally . That's right, they graduate to politics and business as their preferred venue for all that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 ...pop music has other functions which they don't value as highly or at all . Among these functions are the promotion of group identification , facilitation of courtship , expression of aggression or anxiety and the enablement of the release of physical tension through dancing . In this way , older people who say they have no use for pop music mean it literally . Geez, what about just having a simple song in your heart because you really are happy? Oh wait, I guess there are plenty of people who don't have use for that. Anything that simple can't be real, can it. Life is nothing if not a series of psychologically motivated "events". Never mind. The fact that I wrote , "among these functions..." , should tell you that I didn't intend my list to be exhaustive . In the most general sense , emotional expression is obviously a universal musical function . With that in mind , one might ask whether or to what extent pop music is capable of expressing the full range and nuance of emotional life . Can this full range and nuance be expressed through the simple musical structures of pop music or can it only find expression in more complicated 'art' musics ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Totally dig this new band...Paramore. Here's the title track from their 2005 debut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk09OSHnuio their second album came out last year. Not a bad cut on it. Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sApyi41SoVM&NR=1 In concert they rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-9qm0uL7fU Very melodic hard rock. She's got a fantastic voice...not the usual studio trickery...auto-tuned... Nice songs but it certainly sounds auto-tuned to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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