Muhal/R. Mitchell/G. Lewis's "Streaming"

[Larry Kart]

Listened hard (as in "paid close attention") to this when it came out in IIRC late 2006, and to some extent it threw me, despite my familiarity and fondness for a great deal of the music these men have made over the years. Put the album aside, and tonight I listened hard to it again. My thoughts on it are a bit clearer, but a good deal of confusion and doubt remain. First, IMO Muhal and Roscoe have never been on quite the same page (or perhaps even similar pages) musically, but that can work out just fine as long as the distance between them is acknowledged and accepted by both in the act -- then what one has, in effect, is two powerful different discourses going on at once, contrapuntally (not contrapuntally in literal musical terms, but in dramatic terms). I also believe that Roscoe can hear and respond (both on saxophones and here on personal percussion instruments) to anything that Muhal is doing, should that be what Roscoe wants to do, while Muhal for any number of reasons does not (or tends not) to respond to Roscoe that way. But again that can be fine, and it is mostly fine here -- though what's going on here between them is significantly colored by the fact that Muhal is in very fine, aggressive, and aggressively independent form, and that his instrument benefits from perhaps the most startlingly realistic (even super-realistic, in terms of presence and spatial breadth/depth) recording of a piano I've ever heard. Roscoe (and G. Lewis) are very well-recorded too, but one has heard them recorded this well before -- Muhal never before, not in my experience. Now on to Lewis, which is where the problems begin for me. On trombone, this time, he sounds quite empty and/or detached to me -- detached from the others and also detached from his instrument; certainly he's in full virtuoso control of his horn, but much that he plays has an etude-like feel to me, alternately flibberty and blatant (a la Milt Bernhart), sometimes both at once. On the other hand (and this may be a clue), there's a lot of laptop work from Lewis here, and this (aside from the bird imitations, which I can't stand) is IMO mostly quite effective in itself, though I believe that in part by nature (of the instrument or the medium, call the laptop what you will) and in part by intent, most of Lewis's laptop contributions here are meant to play an orchestral/suffusing-background role. The possible clue (or what I wonder is), when Muhal and Roscoe play, one knows or senses the relationship between what one hears and what they're thinking and making their bodies do in real time, as is the case with every improvising instrumentalist. With Lewis's laptop (or anyone's laptop), that relationship is, I think, inevitably altered, maybe even no longer present. That is, the laptop (in part -- it also may do many other things) stores sounds, whatever their origins and how much in what ways they've been worked over, and then produces/releases them in real time at the command of the operator, though I would assume that the release of stored sounds also can be randomized and/or be subject to random, semi-random, or fully controlled further modifications before or while they emerge as sounds that we (and the instrumentalists involved) can hear. Now there's no particular reason why a skilled instrumentalist who's also heavily involved in the things a laptop can do couldn't retain his prior fruitful relationship to his instrument, or even develop a significantly new relationship to his instrument that also would be fruitful. But Lewis sounds to me like a trombonist whose bond to that instrument has been broken -- probably, if so, because it's the orchestral implications (especially the enveloping aspects) of the laptop that have captured his imagination. In any case, while I can to some extent screen out Lewis's contributions to this album when he's playing trombone (don't need to do that when he's on laptop), I'm left then, for the portions of the album where he is playing trombone, with a two- or three-part music where one of the parts isn't working.

My opinion, obviously. What does anyone else think?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Really interesting to read that Larry - I've been 'grappling' with this one a lot too. I share a lot of your opinions on this. I really love the work of all three musicians in almost all of the other contexts in which I've heard them, but I find this trio quite difficult.

Perhaps because I'm young (26) and so relatively very new to these players (probably first heard them when I was 18), I still have something of an uncritical reaction, especially to what Roscoe and Muhal do (the latter, I think, because I'm a piano player, so really in awe from a number of angles). I agree with your assessment - I don't think these two are necessarily on the same page (and are probably on increasingly divergent pages?), but that isn't necessarily an issue for me, for similar reasons to those you cite: Mitchell has such an overwhelming musical ability and control that he can probably make music on any/anyone's turf, and Abrams for something of the opposite reason - that through the bloody-mindedness of his approach, he'll hold his own and sound fascinating whatever the musical relief.

Lewis - even that Lewis that I really love - is slightly difficult for me. I have to listen the same way as Tatum. Tatum is my favourite piano player, period; and one of my favourite musicians, period; but I think this only came when I was able to 'get over it', technically. This didn't quite mean ignoring that what he was doing was instrumentally so stunning (like Roland Kirk for me as well, it's too integral to the concept), but somehow learning that this element of his concept was really some way back in what was going on musically, compared e.g. to harmonic/rhythmic ingenuity. Now, Tatum I've cracked from my personal listening point of view(!); but Lewis - well, I listen to him play on 40B from Basel (1977), a tune that is hard enough for me to get around on piano, and *still* there's a large part of my brain (doubtless the conservative part) saying - 'but that's a *trombone*!?!'

So I suppose my take on it is that I find Lewis' instrumental concept to be quite difficult in the first place - like Tatum, there is a risk to the casual listener of finding it a bit meretricious (whereas what's also so beguiling about it is that it's so deep at the same time to the sincere listener). And that introducing the laptop as well really puts me in jeopardy - after all, here's another layer of 'stuff' to get through on the way to the music. Now, I'm simply not familiar enough with Lewis' trombone or (especially) electronics to draw any conclusions about his relationship with the horn as a result of his relationship with the electronics.

What I do find fascinating about this record is how I listen to it. Given that I'm more than a little unable to be critical about Roscoe or Muhal, and that I'm very fond of Lewis' work, there's a large part of me which really just *wants* to like it, and to leave it at that. But listening to it, I do find it difficult to like in this way, despite flashes of absolute brilliance from each. My solace at the moment(!) is that I seem to 'get' a little bit more of what's going on each time, so at least as the 'friendly experiencer' I'm being rewarded..!

I find the question of electronics very interesting, especially the question of how they react with 'acoustic' instruments. On our scene in the UK, there's some extremely gifted electronics players. Personally, I just don't enjoy working with them as much unless they have the same facilities as an 'acoustic' musician, in terms of ability to lead, respond, otherwise interact etc. (granted that this may be a somewhat 'old-school' approach)!. That said, there are some phenomenally gifted electronics guys around, who are absolutely the equal of other 'traditional' players (e.g. Pat Thomas - an unbelievable electronic musician as well as pianist), and, more pertinently to the discussion here, guys who integrate electronic manipulations into their 'acoustic' concept (e.g. Philipp Wachsmann, Marcio Mattos, etc.)

On a related note, I'm very interested to hear Braxton's approach to 'laptopping' in his new(ish) 'Diamond Curtain Wall' trio - there's already a few examples on record, but I've yet to hear them.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Red

[Larry Kart]

Many thanks, Red. Seems we've been listening to the very same record, which is what I'd hoped to hear from someone but didn't expect I would. I also got it a bit more this time, after a gap of many months away from it, but it could also be that my sense that I got it better was connected to my growing "better" understanding of what were and where were the problems I'd encountered the first time through. I'm pussy-footing here because I'm still prepared for someone to explain convincingly what it is that I'm not getting here and also because, for me, thinking that I've understood something that I didn't understand before can be a satisfying but delusive state of mind.

About laptops and instrumentalists, my in-person experience is limited, but I know at least one excellent player, reedman Aram Shelton (priginally from Jacksonsville, Fl., to Chicago in 2001, then to Mills College in or near Oakland a year or two ago, to work on electro-acoustic things), who does some things with instruments and laptops that sounded very convincing to me -- Aram on alto and laptop with bassist Jason Ajemian on one concert and with drummer Johnathan Crawford on another. The strategy was the same in both cases and orobably fairly common -- both parties play acoustically at first, the laptop takes in what is played, then the laptop operator begins to in real time to release modified (looped, etc.) versions of what has been played while the players respond in real time to that -- and on and on. To me, whatever else might be going on in the realm of technology and with the belief that new techniques will generate significantly new art, it all resolves on the level of ear and taste. That, for example, is why I'm bewildered by the fact that George Lewis has stored chirpy bird sounds on his laptop and thinks it's a good idea to release them from the cage.

Link to Shelton/Crawford album, which may still be available:

http://www.482music.com/albums/482-1022.html

[Larry Kart]

Shelton's website (lots to hear there):

http://www.aramshelton.com/about.html

I see that he grew up in Gainesville, not Jacksonville.

[Lazaro Vega]

With that Voyager program Lewis has interfaced his trombone with the computer, and there was a lot of that at the performance in Ann Arbor, as well as the more orchestral wash of sounds from "just" the lap top. He's found a way of using one of those Yamaha silent practice mutes, the ones that attach to headphones so you can hear your full sound but it is quiet in the room, as a midi interface between trombone and computer.

Having heard Lewis and Abrams improvise as a duo during the AACM's 25th Anniversary concert at the Getz Theater (and the long mostly duo piece "Dramaturns" on "Streaming,") I went to Ann Arbor expecting that, and was suprised in a Homer Simpson sense that what transpired was much more akin to or evolved from "L-R-G" than anything else. The interplay between Lewis and Roscoe was far, far along a personal musical understanding -- there was nothing tentative about it. Muhal was often silent in the concert. Since I stayed for both "sets" and heard up to two hours of this it was easier to hear how Muhal found his way in. The concert was one of the finest experiences in music I'd ever heard -- so mature now. Going out later to hear other bands was a complete let down. Having hear this, too, while reading Konitz's book made it that much more vivid and clear.

I'd like to write more about the performance but my daughter just walked in, hollered "Good morning 'bazzooes'" lifted her skirt over hear head, ran full blast at me and without slowing down jumped into my lap and is now pointing at the emoticons on the screen and laughing.

[Larry Kart]

Interfacing the computer with the trombone sounds like it would be a good answer for Lewis. Glad to hear that he and Roscoe and were interacting so well in Ann Arbor. Good luck with the little one; she sounds like a handful.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Larry - thanks for the link to Shelton's site. I heard him recently on something - just can't place what! - and really enjoyed his playing. Although, IIRC, that was entirely acoustic, so I'll be interested to hear his 'laptopping'.

Thinking of 482 Music, one album I do remember enjoying a great deal (haven't listened in a bit, though) was

http://www.482music.com/albums/482-1031.html

this. Jim Baker plays analog synthesiser, although to me what he did on that was reminiscent of some of the electronics players I enjoy.

I suppose a distinction I've been sloppy with is that between those who play electronics as a primary 'instrument', and those who use it as a processing tool. And then as well, those who use live samples, and those with a prerecorded library...I'm generally a little more wary of the prerecorded library (hence perhaps also Lewis' birds..!) - it's obviously different, but does seem in some ways like an acoustic player just unloading their bag of licks...

That said - and Nate may back me up on this! - a really great band over in these parts is 'Bruise' (Tony Bevan, Orphy Robinson, John Edwards, Ashley Wales, Mark Sanders), where Ashley uses a great deal of 'library' samples (although uses real-time processing as well).

[Nate Dorward]

Yeah, Bruise is marvellous--I wish they were better known here in North America, but the fact that their 3 releases are on a small UK label (Tony Bevan's Foghorn) has meant that they're not getting a lot of press here. We Packed Are Bags was my pick for Exclaim! magazine's best-of-year writeup for this year. I find it very hard to pick out where Ashley Wales's contributions begin & end, they're so closely integrated into the music's fabric. (That's not the case on the debut album, which makes more obvious use of loops & samples.)

I found Streaming mostly perplexing & didn't initially like it at all; after a few spins I thought better of it & wrote it up for Paris Transatlantic in a more or less positive if rather cagey review, but haven't gone back to it since then. I was more taken with Lewis's trombone work on the album than either of you, I think.

Incidentally, anyone have an opinion on the new Abrams solo disc on Pi?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Yeah, Bruise is marvellous--I wish they were better known here in North America, but the fact that their 3 releases are on a small UK label (Tony Bevan's Foghorn) has meant that they're not getting a lot of press here. We Packed Are Bags was my pick for Exclaim! magazine's best-of-year writeup for this year. I find it very hard to pick out where Ashley Wales's contributions begin & end, they're so closely integrated into the music's fabric. (That's not the case on the debut album, which makes more obvious use of loops & samples.)

I found Streaming mostly perplexing & didn't initially like it at all; after a few spins I thought better of it & wrote it up for Paris Transatlantic in a more or less positive if rather cagey review, but haven't gone back to it since then. I was more taken with Lewis's trombone work on the album than either of you, I think.

Incidentally, anyone have an opinion on the new Abrams solo disc on Pi?

In my experience of him in numerous contexts, Ashley is almost always very subtle indeed. Saw him a couple of months ago do a great set with a pianist (I forget who), and he was wonderful.

Collecting my thoughts on the Abrams at the moment

[Alexander Hawkins]

Just had my first couple of listens to the Abrams solo disc, 'Vision Towards Essence'...

A really interesting record! It's very 'hard work'. Abrams seems to have much more of a 'thinking out loud' quality than (say) Cecil Taylor. Whereas Taylor's solo performances seem to unfold with a very obvious compositional logic, I don't get the same impression listening to Abrams (granted that there are quasi-compositional things going on...I'd have to listen more closely, but I think this performance is vaguely palindromic in the order in which it uses certain ideas). But the whole thing is more stream of consciousness than anything else...he finds a certain idea, worries it for a while, then moves on. In some ways, the approach reminds me of 'Mingus Plays Piano'. And whereas Taylor always seems to be presenting a predetermined compositional logic, because Abrams seems to be more introspective, it's in some ways much more challenging listening than Taylor. Abrams seems to be playing to himself as much as playing to the audience, and as a result the contours of the performance aren't necessarily as obvious as they might be in the case of other pianists. Obviously there are dynamic/tempo peaks and troughs, but the whole thing feels quite 'samey' unless you really listen hard!

A couple of things. Muhal gets phenomenal sounds from the piano. Really stunning sonorities! I absolutely know what you mean about the piano being in some ways 'super-real' on 'Streaming', Larry. Here, I think it's just very 'real', although I'm surprised it's not a slightly better instrument...the bottom end is really quite thin.

I read a couple of things about this performance being totally 'unreferential' to earlier styles, as opposed to e.g. 'Young at Heart'. I don't think this is true - there's an off-kilter boogie thing towards the end; two different stride figurations; etc. Most beautiful IMHO, however, are the sections where Muhal walks a bass, and runs boppy lines against it. Really great!

[Nate Dorward]

Thanks for the comments--yes, the closing moments of the performance do find Abrams bringing it full circle by returning to the opening motif. I find this one a tough go, really: it does have that stuck-in-the-same-place feel to it often!

[jimi089]

Incidentally, anyone have an opinion on the new Abrams solo disc on Pi?

I think it's brilliant. I also had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Abrams do a solo set this past summer at Millennium Park so I had that as a context and means of comparison, and I find the Vision Towards Essence rewarding because I can listen to it multiple times. It was a bit overwhelming live to be honest, and I also wasn't in the best listening head space at the time, so I'm grateful for a chance to hear him do a very similar thing on record. Having heard him do it live and on record, it's clear to me that he's developed his own solo piano language and approach. I'll go ahead with the review cliche and say it "rewards repeated listens."

As for Streaming, it also took a while to sink in, but faith in the members of the group kept me coming back. They have an incredible rapport, in their various duos and as a trio. I don't have much in the way of specific praise, but I think my initial response was that I found it overwhelming. If anything, I'm most impressed by the various areas where all members show restraint since they can each be dominating in their own ways in different contexts.