BYG Actuel Series

[StarThrower]

If they're needle drops, they cleaned up the noise pretty good. Anyway, they're packaged handsomely with nice photo and notes.

I'm enjoying the music, especially Message To Our Folks, and Shepp's passionate tenor playing. I haven't listened to all of the

music yet.

[Chuck Nessa]

Our friend Brownie is the expert on these matters. I hope he jumps in again.

[Steve Reynolds]

Fwiw, I think Jump Up is as great a sax-bass-drums trio recording that ANYONE could have wished to have made.

[Steve Reynolds]

Fwiw, I think Jump Up is as great a sax-bass-drums trio recording that ANYONE could have wished to have made.

[clifford_thornton]

Pretty sure Seasons is not a needle-drop. LPs of that are pretty distorted in one channel, CDs sound fine.

[Chuck Nessa]

But that one was a radio broadcast. I am sure another source was found.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, good point - ORTF indeed.

[brownie]

ORTF source might indeed be true. The ORTF sound archives were 'explored' by several avid and unscrupulous fans in the late '60s.

As for the BYG Actuel original material, the late Jacques Bisceglia who helped produce many of the sessions told me that as far as he knew the original tapes were lost in the chaotic saga that followed the label's disappearance.

[maldororrr]

Hi guys

as many of you, I'm in love with this label so I've in plan to buy a lot of Actuel records on vinyl, then I need to understand what's the best edition (sound quality, sleeve quality, ...) in relation to prices. I obviously can not afford original issues 

So I need to clarify the actual situation of the reissues (and correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Original BYG editions (early 70s)
2. Affinity reissues (late 70s)
3. Get Back (early 2000s, Italy)
4. "mysterious" gatefold reissues by the original BYG(?!) from US and France with unknown release year.

Have you information on these last ones reissues? I discovered these ones on Discogs, like this one but these reissues exist for almost all the series LPs, and all the reissues are surprisingly in gatefold (replicating the original ones, I suppose)! You know where they came from, are really a BYG reissues? Why year is not reported? Sound quality is same/better/worst compared to others editions like Get Back? I really cannot find informations about these reissues, so I hope you could help me to clarify.

Finally, excluding the original ones (too expensive) and the Affinity ones (I don't like their cover design), as today what vinyl reissue you suggest?

Waiting for your precious advices! Thanks

Edited March 30, 2020 by maldororrr

[mjzee]

2 hours ago, maldororrr said:

Hi guys

as many of you, I'm in love with this label so I've in plan to buy a lot of Actuel records on vinyl, then I need to understand what's the best edition (sound quality, sleeve quality, ...) in relation to prices. I obviously can not afford original issues 

So I need to clarify the actual situation of the reissues (and correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Original BYG editions (early 70s)
2. Affinity reissues (late 70s)
3. Get Back (early 2000s, Italy)
4. "mysterious" gatefold reissues by the original BYG(?!) from US and France with unknown release year.

Have you information on these last ones reissues? I discovered these ones on Discogs, like this one but these reissues exist for almost all the series LPs, and all the reissues are surprisingly in gatefold (replicating the original ones, I suppose)! You know where they came from, are really a BYG reissues? Why year is not reported? Sound quality is same/better/worst compared to others editions like Get Back? I really cannot find informations about these reissues, so I hope you could help me to clarify.

Finally, excluding the original ones (too expensive) and the Affinity ones (I don't like their cover design), as today what vinyl reissue you suggest?

Waiting for your precious advices! Thanks

I have the recent reissue of Sonny Sharrock's "Monkey-Pockie-Boo."  The cover is a gatefold, identical to the original release (except it's not a digi-pak, but a straight gatefold).  No additional verbiage as to provenance.  The labels are identical to the original release (comparison with photo on Discogs); again, no additional info.  Nothing revealing written in the lead-out grooves.  Nice heavy vinyl.  I recall there being a sticker on the shrink-wrap, but I didn't save it.

[clifford_thornton]

Scorpio boots most likely.

[maldororrr]

2 hours ago, mjzee said:

I have the recent reissue of Sonny Sharrock's "Monkey-Pockie-Boo."  The cover is a gatefold, identical to the original release (except it's not a digi-pak, but a straight gatefold).  No additional verbiage as to provenance.  The labels are identical to the original release (comparison with photo on Discogs); again, no additional info.  Nothing revealing written in the lead-out grooves.  Nice heavy vinyl.  I recall there being a sticker on the shrink-wrap, but I didn't save it.

Hi @mjazzg

very thanks for your message, it's going to help me. So they seem completely unknown editions. 

The sticker could be like the one you see on this

What you mean for "except it's not a digi-pak, but a straight gatefold", sorry but never heard of digipack about vinyl, I thought it was a CD thing. Eventually sorry for my ignorance.

Most important: how is the sound quality? Have you any chance to compare it with original issue or Get Back reissue?

 

24 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Scorpio boots most likely.

Hi @clifford_thornton

you mean they are like unauthorized Actuel bootlegs LPs?

Never heard of Scorpio label. At this point I analyzed almost all Actuel records on Discogs and between the various issues Scorpio never appears!

How you can know that? And in case it was Scorpio, is it a good label to buy LPs from?

Edited March 30, 2020 by maldororrr

[clifford_thornton]

Scorpio is a bootleg operation out of New Jersey with massive distribution and reach. They've done everything from Sun Ra Saturns to Blue Notes and Atlantics. Truly shameless. I have seen the records you mention in stores and they aren't Get Back bootlegs. Scorpio is a likely culprit since they're so plentiful around the US. I'm sure they are needle drops from Get Back reissues, whatever they are. Pirate editions are worth avoiding if you can (even if BYG didn't pay the musicians either).

[maldororrr]

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

Scorpio is a bootleg operation out of New Jersey with massive distribution and reach. They've done everything from Sun Ra Saturns to Blue Notes and Atlantics. Truly shameless. I have seen the records you mention in stores and they aren't Get Back bootlegs. Scorpio is a likely culprit since they're so plentiful around the US. I'm sure they are needle drops from Get Back reissues, whatever they are. Pirate editions are worth avoiding if you can (even if BYG didn't pay the musicians either).

Ok, if they are really needledrops from Get Back (that I read are needledrop too!!), the sound quality is worst for sure or it's the same from the original? Sorry for the eventually stupid question.

Cause what I like of them is that they're gatefold as the original issues, while Get Back ones not.

 

I found some interesting infos on Scorpio:

https://www.discogs.com/label/156370-Scorpio-Music-Inc

https://www.discogs.com/label/156370-Scorpio-Music-Inc/reviews#c1157445

@mjazzg @mjzee the descriptions above match with your reissue? So we finally find out if these reissues are by Scorpio

 

They say these Scorpio reissue are the worst things ever. But it could be the same for Get Back ones, which maybe are needle drops too.

Edited March 30, 2020 by maldororrr

[maldororrr]

Thi is the sticker:

I transcribed the text:

180 gram

Limited edition Classic LP

High Definition Premium Virgin Vinyl Pressing for Super Fidelity

The Niceest thing you can do for your stylus and your Ears(?)

The ultimate record. The way music was meant to be heard and great enough for an audiophile

 

Well, just basing on what they say, they seem super quality reissues!

[mjazzg]

20 minutes ago, maldororrr said:

Ok, if they are really needledrops from Get Back (that I read are needledrop too!!), the sound quality is worst for sure or it's the same from the original? Sorry for the eventually stupid question.

Cause what I like of them is that they're gatefold as the original issues, while Get Back ones not.

 

I found some interesting infos on Scorpio:

https://www.discogs.com/label/156370-Scorpio-Music-Inc

https://www.discogs.com/label/156370-Scorpio-Music-Inc/reviews#c1157445

@mjazzg the descriptions above match with your reissue? So we finally find out if these reissues are by Scorpio

 

They say these Scorpio reissue are the worst things ever. But it could be the same for Get Back ones, which maybe are needle drops too.

It was mjzee who posted about the Sharrock not me.

Coincidentally I do have two of the reissues you're looking at and have seen plenty for sale.

The ones I bought, a Braxton and a Moncur III sound ok compared to a good number of original BYGs I have. Nothing better. I'll go with Clifford and call them as bootlegs

The few Affinity reissues I have sound as good as the originals but the covers are nowhere near as nice.

As others have said the originals aren't known for their quality but none I have heard are the lesser for it as the music is generally fantastic Coursil, Arthur Jones, Terroade all worth looking for of the less well known artists.

[maldororrr]

6 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

It was mjzee who posted about the Sharrock not me.

Coincidentally I do have two of the reissues you're looking at and have seen plenty for sale.

The ones I bought, a Braxton and a Moncur III sound ok compared to a good number of original BYGs I have. Nothing better. I'll go with Clifford and call them as bootlegs

The few Affinity reissues I have sound as good as the originals but the covers are nowhere near as nice.

As others have said the originals aren't known for their quality but none I have heard are the lesser for it as the music is generally fantastic Coursil, Arthur Jones, Terroade all worth looking for of the less well known artists.

Wow @mjazzg, what a luck for me! 

The two reissue you're talk about have that gold/black sticker, posted before? Also they should be very recent, when you bought them?

About the sound quality, you said "sound ok, nothing better", so they're not so horrible. I just read how the Scorpio reissues suck in anyway (from sleeve, to vinyl, to sound). Is it true that the artwork has blurry text and images, low quality print on cover?

17€ for this reissue, in your opinion, it's ok for what it is? For the same price I can get the Get Back. 

[mjzee]

That was the sticker on my copy of the Sharrock.  I saw no evidence that this was a boot.  Vinyl was quiet, sound was what I expected (the original wasn't great).  The cover looked like original artwork, not a reproduction; same for the label.  My advice is: if you want the music, go for this edition.

[mjazzg]

14 minutes ago, maldororrr said:

Wow @mjazzg, what a luck for me! 

The two reissue you're talk about have that gold/black sticker, posted before? Also they should be very recent, when you bought them?

About the sound quality, you said "sound ok, nothing better", so they're not so horrible. I just read how the Scorpio reissues suck in anyway (from sleeve, to vinyl, to sound). Is it true that the artwork has blurry text and images, low quality print on cover?

17€ for this reissue, in your opinion, it's ok for what it is? For the same price I can get the Get Back. 

 

Yes both had that sticker, bought in the last three years or so. The cover quality is good.

I agree with mjzee above - similar names, different continents, same opinion .  If you want the music, don't want to spend on the originals then buy these at that price.

Why not buy one title on Get Back and another on this reissue series and then you can compare yourself?

And, welcome to the board!

 

[maldororrr]

28 minutes ago, mjzee said:

That was the sticker on my copy of the Sharrock.  I saw no evidence that this was a boot.  Vinyl was quiet, sound was what I expected (the original wasn't great).  The cover looked like original artwork, not a reproduction; same for the label.  My advice is: if you want the music, go for this edition.

 

14 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

 

Yes both had that sticker, bought in the last three years or so. The cover quality is good.

I agree with mjzee above - similar names, different continents, same opinion .  If you want the music, don't want to spend on the originals then buy these at that price.

Why not buy one title on Get Back and another on this reissue series and then you can compare yourself?

And, welcome to the board!

 

Thanks guys for your very useful answers and advices! 👏

Yes I'd like to compare the reissues myself but I've to buy them on Discogs and buying one single LP is too expensive because of the shipping  so for that I'm going to buy a bulk

Anyway, @clifford_thornton just said "I'm sure they are needle drops from Get Back reissues", so I was asking if a needle drop of a needle drop will deteriorates further the quality

Edited March 30, 2020 by maldororrr

[clifford_thornton]

Not a mastering engineer, but I suppose it depends on how good the transfer & remastering is. If it is indeed true that the tapes are long gone, these are probably done from MP3s ripped from other reissue copies. For what it is worth I have only owned original Actuel pressings (other than the Sunspots CD of Seasons) and they are extremely variable in sound quality. 

[maldororrr]

Sure that thinking about a vinyl done from MP3s make you shiver! 

[clifford_thornton]

not ideal, no. 

[mjazzg]

all depends on how much you want to hear the music, I guess. we can't decide that for you 

Have you checked streaming sites to see if the ones you want are available to try? Another, cheaper route to see if you like the music enough to invest in an original.

As Clifford says the originals' quality are variable, extremely, We're not talking audiophile releases here.  

[clifford_thornton]

Indeed. In terms of audio quality, I'd argue that some of the best sounding BYGs aren't jazz releases.