Baseball Steroid Thread

[T.D.]

yes, it will run third in the rotation, so about 35 minutes or so after the football game ends. Might be as late as after 8:30 tonight. There is a terrific column about the art of being a tough interviewer and why Wallace is unlikely to even make Roger squirm a bit here.. Must read column, imo.

Thanks. I'll probably tune in some of the football (with the sound off), to be sure of the start time.

I agree, it won't be a hard-hitting interview. My subjective probability of Wallace pursuing my (and NY Post's) suggested Why was McNamee even injecting you? line of questioning is less than 5%.

I assume the interview will have been previously taped, and edited prior to broadcast (could it possibly be live? Hard for me to imagine). IMO, this makes it even less likely to be revealing; I wouldn't be surprised if Clemens's reps were allowed to screen the edited tape to make sure that Roger isn't "slandered"...

[Dan Gould]

Correct, the interview was pre-recorded, last weekend at his mansion in Texas, I believe. Then CBS put out a press release about denying PED use ("Swear?" "Swear." ) but acknowledging being injected with "lidocaine and B-12" and that got picked up and has been driving news coverage until the House Oversight committee made its announcement.

[Dan Gould]

Not to ruin the suspense, but CBS has released the transcript of tonight's interview:

Clemens on 60 minutes

Email|Link By Gary Dzen, Boston.com Staff January 6, 2008 07:00 PM

Below is the complete transcript of Mike Wallace's interview with Roger Clemens, which aired this evening on the Jan. 6 edition of '60 Minutes'. The transcript is courtesy of CBS:

STUDIO OPEN: WITH 354 WINS, ROGER CLEMENS IS ONE OF THE BEST PITCHERS IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. BUT THERE ARE QUESTIONS NOW ABOUT WHETHER ROGER CLEMENS CHEATED TO ENHANCE HIS RECORD AND PROLONG HIS CAREER. ONE OF HIS FORMER TRAINERS, BRIAN MCNAMEE SAYS THAT HE HIMSELF INJECTED CLEMENS WITH STEROIDS AND HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE. MCNAMEE'S ACCUSATIONS WERE THE BIGGEST REVELATIONS IN GEORGE MITCHELL'S REPORT ON STEROID ABUSE FOR MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. BUT CLEMENS INSISTS THE CHARGES ARE PHONY--THAT HE NEVER USED STEROIDS OR ANY OTHER BANNED SUBSTANCE. CLEMENS AGREED TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS AT HIS HOME OUTSIDE HOUSTON WHERE WE FOUND HIM TO BE FRUSTRATED, EVEN FURIOUS, THAT SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SO QUICK TO BELIEVE HE CHEATED.

CLEMENS: I'm angry that that what I've done for the game of baseball and the personal, in my private life, what I've done that I I don't get the benefit of the doubt The stuff that's being said, it's ridiculous. It's hogwash for people to even assume this. 24, 25 years Mike. You'd think I'd get an inch of respect. An inch. How, how can you prove your innocence?

WALLACE Apparently you haven't done it yet. People I talk to say, "Come on. 45 years old? How does he still throw a ball and compete and so forth? Impossible."

CLEMENS Not impossible. You do it with hard work. Ask any of my teammates. Ask anybody that's come here and and done the work with me.

WALLACE I was down here in 2001. You were pitching to a guy by the name of…

CLEMENS Brian McNamee, that's right.

TRACK: MCNAMEE HELPED CLEMENS WORK OUT--ON AND OFF--FOR TEN YEARS. CLEMENS IS FAMOUS FOR HIS EXHAUSTING WORKOUTS. HE'S BEEN CALLED THE HARDEST WORKING MAN IN THROW-BUSINESS. BUT NOW HE'S BEEN THROWN BY WHAT MCNAMEE TOLD GEORGE MITCHELL.

WALLACE He gave very specific examples of times he says that he injected you with steroids. During the '98 season, you were pitching for the Blue Jays. McNamee was their strength and conditioning coach. From the Mitchell Report, quote: "Clemens approached McNamee, and for the first time, brought up the subject of using steroids. Clemens said that he was not able to inject himself and he asked for McNamee's help. McNamee injected Clemens approximately four times in the buttocks over a several week period, with needles that Clemens provided. Each incident took place in Clemens apartment.

CLEMENS Never happened. Never happened. And if if if I have these needles and these steroids and all these drugs, what, where did I get ‘em. Where is the person out there gave ‘em to me? Please, please come forward.

WALLACE Mitchell Report, quote: "According to McNamee, from the time McNamee injected Clemens with Winstrol, a steroid, through the end of the '98 season, Clemens performance showed remarkable improvement. Clemens told McNamee that the steroids, quote, had a pretty good effect on him. McNamee said Clemens was also training harder and dieting better during this time."

CLEMENS Never. I trained hard my entire career. It just didn't happen.

WALLACE Why would Brian McNamee want to betray you?

CLEMENS I don't know. I'm so upset about it, how I treated this man and took care of him.

WALLACE I imagine he's watching the two of us right now, wouldn't you?

CLEMENS I hope he is.

WALLACE Okay. Anything you want to tell him.

CLEMENS Yeah. I treated him fairly. I treated him as great as anybody else. I helped him out!

WALLACE Again, from the Mitchell Report, quote, "According to McNamee, during the middle of the 2000 season, Clemens made it clear he was ready to use steroids again. And during the latter part of the season, McNamee injected Clemens in the buttocks four to six times with testosterone. Also injected Clemens four to six times with Human growth hormone.

CLEMENS My body never changed. If he's putting that stuff up in my body, if what he's saying which is totally false, if he's doing that to me, I should have a third ear coming out of my forehead. I should be pulling tractors with my teeth.

WALLACE The next season 2001. It's from the Mitchell Report, quote, "According to McNamee, Clemens advised him in August of 2001 that he was again ready to use steroids. And shortly thereafter, McNamee injected Clemens with a steroid on four to five occasions at Clemens' apartment-

CLEMENS Yeah. Never happened.

WALLACE In two of the three years that McNamee claims that he injected you—'98 and 2001 you won 20 games and the Cy Young award as the American League's best pitcher.

CLEMENS I won—in 1997 I won the Cy Young Award. 2004 when he supposedly, I wasn't doing it.

WALLACE Yeah, but these are the years in which McNamee claims that he injected you.

CLEMENS It didn't happen. It didn't happen. It just didn't happen.

TRACK: SO WHILE CLEMENS WAS HIS LEAGUE'S BEST PITCHER DURING TWO OF THE ALLEGED STEROID YEARS, HE WAS ALSO HIS LEAGUE'S BEST THE YEAR BEFORE MCNAMEE SAYS INJECTIONS BEGAN; AND THREE YEARS AFTER MCNAMEE SAYS HE STOPPED GIVING CLEMENS STEROIDS.

CLEMENS Why didn't I keep doing it if it was so good for me? Why didn't I break down? Why didn't my tendons turn to dust? That's all it's good for. It's a quick fix. I don't believe in that. I don't do it.

WALLACE What was your first reaction when you heard what McNamee had said?

CLEMENS I I was shocked. I was angry. A lot of emotions.

WALLACE You're still shocked. You're still angry.

CLEMENS Oh definitely.

WALLACE Did you know ahead of time what was going be in George Mitchell's report?

CLEMENS I did not.

WALLACE Did Brian McNamee tell you what he was going to say to—

CLEMENS Didn't tell me a word.

TRACK: BUT HE DID ASK CLEMENS FOR A FAVOR JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE MITCHELL REPORT CAME OUT.

CLEMENS He emails me and asks me where all the good fishing equipment is down at Cabo that I bought so he can go fishing. Thank you very much. I said, Have a good time, go fishing. Doesn't say a word that you, that you know I'm fixing to bury you with all these accusations and what do we do about it. Didn't say a word about it. That's what pisses me off.

WALLACE Why didn't you speak to George Mitchell's investigators?

CLEMENS I listened to my counsel. I was advised not to. A lot of the

players didn't go down and talk to him.

WALLACE I know.

CLEMENS But if I would've known what this man, Brian McNamee had said in this report, I would have been down there in a heartbeat to take care of it.

WALLACE George Mitchell says he believes McNamee and this is why. McNamee got caught up in a federal steroids investigation, and the federal prosecutors agreed not to charge him if he told the truth about his involvement with steroids. But they would charge him if he gave any false information. So Mitchell says McNamee had strong incentives to tell the truth.

WALLACE What, hold, what did McNamee gain by lying?

CLEMENS Evidently not going to jail.

WALLACE Jail time for what?

CLEMENS Well, I think he's been buying and movin' steroids.

TRACK: CLEMENS SAYS HE LEARNED THAT FROM THE MITCHELL REPORT, WHICH ALSO MENTIONED HIS FELLOW YANKEE PITCHER ANDY PETTITE, WHO ALSO TRAINED UNDER MCNAMEE. MCNAMEE SAID HE'D INJECTED PETTITE TWICE WITH HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE. AFTER THE REPORT CAME OUT, PETTITE CONFIRMED THAT MCNAMEE HAD GIVEN HIM TWO H.G.H..SHOTS TO RECOVER FROM AN ELBOW INJURY.

WALLACE When Andy confirmed that McNamee had indeed told the truth about injecting him, that gave McNamee credibility, made his claims about injecting you seem more believable.

CLEMENS I have I had no knowledge of what Andy was doing.

WALLACE Why would Brian McNamee tell the truth about Andy Pettitte and lie about you?

CLEMENS Andy's case is totally is, is totally separate. I was shocked to learn about Andy's situation. Had no idea about it.

TRACK: AND WE HAD NO IDEA HOW MANY LEGAL INJECTIONS CLEMENS HAS RECEIVED—INCLUDING FROM MCNAMEE .

WALLACE Did your former trainer, Brian McNamee ever inject you with anything?

CLEMENS Yes he did.

WALLACE What?

CLEMENS Lidocaine, and B12. It's for my joints and and B12 I take still today. A lot of trainers—

WALLACE And that's all.?

CLEMENS That's it.

WALLACE Never, never a human growth hormone?

CLEMENS Never.

WALLACE Never testosterone?

CLEMENS Never. Never.

WALLACE And never anabolic steroids?

CLEMENS Never.

WALLACE Swear?

CLEMENS Swear.

TRACK: MCNAMEE'S ATTORNEY COUNTERED THAT MCNAMEE ONLY INJECTED CLEMENS WITH STEROIDS AND HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE-- NOTHING ELSE. BEYOND MCNAMEE, CLEMENS TOLD US HE GOT LEGAL INJECTIONS FROM TEAM TRAINERS, MOSTLY PAIN KILLERS.

CLEMENS The number of shots that you get over the course of a season which was many for me. Whether they be vitamins or, for pain, Thorodol. Pain shots. To go out and perform. I had one of my biggest arguments with Joe Torre. He's wanting to scratch me on the big—one of the biggest starts of the season. Had a small tear in my hamstring and a golf ball in my elbow.

WALLACE Uh-huh

CLEMENS Joe Torre and I were in the the trainers room and he basically shut the door and said, I don't need any damn heroes here. You didn't tell me how bad you're hurtin. I notice you're hurtin'. And I told Joe Torre that I'll be damned if 15 minutes before I'm gonna start a World Series game I'm gonna go out there and look my teammates in the eye and tell ‘em I can't go. I said, as long as the other team doesn't know that I'm hurting, I can get people out throwin' 85 without using my leg. And get you six innings under my belt. I'm gonna take this Torodol shot and hope it works. And mask some of this pain so I can get out there and do my job. That's the things I put my body through And I'm not ashamed of that because I get paid a lotta money to go out and perform. And I appreciate that they put that kind of trust in me.

TRACK: THAT NIGHT, HE THREW A THREE HITTER AND WON THE GAME. WHAT WORRIES HIM TODAY, HE TOLD US, IS ALL THE VIOXX PILLS VARIOUS TRAINERS GAVE HIM. VIOXX, WAS A WIDLEY USED ANTI-IMFLAMMATORY AND PAIN KILLER, BEFORE IT WAS TAKEN OFF THE MARKET FOR CAUSING HEART ATTACKS AND STROKES.

CLEMENS I was eating Vioxx like it was Skittles. And now that, now these people who are supposedly regulating it, tell me it's bad for my heart. I don't know what the future holds because of the the medicine that I've eatin, but I trusted that it was not harmful. And I didn't wanna put anything in my body that was harmful.

TRACK: STEROIDS ARE HARMFUL HE SAID, AND WOULD HAVE SHORTENED HIS CAREER.

CLEMENS Why would I want to get tight or lose my flexibility, put something harmful in my system that's gonna cause me to break down when I've had a 24 year career?

WALLACE Look, because you're at the end of your career, and because you you don't want to give up the career and give up the fame and so forth. So if it's necessary to stick something into you—

CLEMENS I didn't play my career to get fame or go to the Hall of Fame or worry about all that. That's nice. That, all that's nice. Again, it's not who I am. I've worked my tail off to get where I'm at. I'm not gonna put something in my body for a quick fix that's gonna tear me down.

WALLACE What penalty should there be for someone who is taking these performance enhancing drugs?

CLEMENS I think it's a self-inflicted penalty. They break down quick. It's a quick fix. They're in and out of the game.

WALLACE If you were to testify before the congress under oath would you tell them exactly what you told me today?

CLEMENS And even probably more about the Vioxx question.

NEW TRACK: CLEMENS MAY APPEAR AS REQUESTED AT A CONGRESSIONAL HEARING IN TEN DAYS, HIS CHALLENGE IS GETTING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE HIM.

CLEMENS I don't know if I can defend myself, I think people—a lot of people have already made their decisions.

WALLACE Well, a lot of people have made—

CLEMENS And that's our country, isn't it? Guilty before innocent. That's the way our country works now. And then everybody's talking about sue, sue sue. Should I sue? Well, let me exhaust. Let me, let me just spend. How about, let's keep spending. But I'm gonna explore what I can do and then I want to see if it's gonna be worth it, worth all the headache.

TRACK: BRIAN MCNAMEE'S ATTORNEY SAID MCNAMEE WILL DECIDE AFTER WATCHING THIS INTERVIEW WHETHER HE'LL SUE CLEMENS--FOR DEFAMATION. MCNAMEE DECLINED TO TALK WITH US. THE PROBLEM BOTH HE AND CLEMENS HAVE IS PROVING THEY'RE TELLING THE TRUTH.

WALLACE How about a lie detector test?

CLEMENS Some say they're good. Some say they're not. Do whatever. I mean—

WALLACE So as far as you're concerned you would conceivably?

CLEMENS Yeah. I don't know if they're good or bad.

WALLACE Were you to pass a lie detector test, would that help prove that you're telling the truth and help restore?

CLEMENS Would it?

WALLACE I don't know.

CLEMENS I don't either.

TRACK: AND HE DOESN'T KNOW IF HE'LL EVER PITCH AGAIN.

CLEMENS But I understand that as a public person, you're gonna take some shots. The higher you get up on the flagpole, the more your butt shows? And I understand all that. But I'm tired of answering to ‘em. That's why I will not ever play again. I don't want to answer to it. I want to slide off and be just a citizen.

WALLACE You're retiring? Period.

CLEMENS Probably.

WALLACE Not for sure, but—

CLEMENS I would say, yeah. If I sit here and tell you right now, I would say yes.

WALLACE You're not going to pitch again?

CLEMENS You'll never see me pitch again.

TRACK: BUT HE HAS RETIRED THREE TIMES BEFORE AND HE TOLD US HE COULD UN-RETIRE AGAIN.

WALLACE After listening to you in this interview, do you think people are going believe you? Believe that you, Roger Clemens never took steroids?

CLEMENS I think the people that know me believe me and understand what I'm about. And I can't—the, the people that are out there that have been saying the things that they've been sayin', I don't know if I'll ever swing their opinion, These accusations are not gonna change me as a person. I'll, I'll do everything I can to prove ‘em wrong. And and I still don't know if that's good enough.

Pretty pathetic performance from Wallace, who doesn't even bother to mention that he has described himself as Clemens' "friend" and is a regular guest in old George's box at Yankee Stadium. He can't even be troubled to directly challenge Clemens on McNamee's incentive to tell the truth and nothing but - and of course there is no follow up to Clemens' nonsensical reply:

WALLACE What, hold, what did McNamee gain by lying?

CLEMENS Evidently not going to jail.

WALLACE Jail time for what?

CLEMENS Well, I think he's been buying and movin' steroids.

Excuse me, Roger, but the Feds told him "no Federal charges so long as you tell us everything you know and don't ever lie to us". How does he get that to "not going to jail"? The fact is that if the Feds generated their own evidence that McNamee shot Clemens up with steroids and HGH, he'd be up shit's creek sans paddle had he neglected to mention that he supplied Clemens with the stuff.

And the claim that Pettitte's situation is "totally separate" - uh, no, Rog, it goes directly to McNamee's credibility.

And that Vioxx shit and the story about his pain killer shot before his WS start? What the fucking hell is that about? Has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand, and he thinks he's going to learn the oversight committee about what ... poor regulation by the FDA?

I hope Roger thinks this was worth it. From this moment on, its downhill for him. Starting at 5 pm ET on Monday, he'll deal with journalists with a little more guts than Mike Wallace who are going to hammer him on all the reasons why he is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the public. And then when it comes time to be sworn in and testify under oath, he better be ready to take it all the way to the end (minimum, libel suit; maximum, felony charge of lying to Congress).

[T.D.]

Thanks for posting that. Pretty lame interview IMO. Now I don't have to watch and be p**sed off/let down.

I'm not expecting too much from the Congressional hearing. I often listen to radio broadcasts of the Federal Reserve Chairman (Bernanke, earlier Greenspan) being questioned by the House and Senate, and many of the questioners aren't, shall we say, very astute. Interestingly, one of the worst offenders is Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY), former baseball hero. Wonder if Bunning will chime in on the steroid issue.

Edited January 7, 2008 by T.D.

[Dan Gould]

Oh, Bunning made a big stink the last time they dealt with steroids - basically complaining about players who don't get worse as they age, they get better, and how unlikely that is without chemical assistance.

Watching the start of the interview - Wallace starts reading from the Mitchell report, and Clemens nods along. I may be wrong but I believe that's a non-verbal cue that he agrees with the statements. If they were false, the impulse should be to shake his head throughout - and he only starts to shake his head a couple of minutes later, probably when he remembered what his lawyer told him to do.

Who told him to claim that a "third ear would grow out of my forehead" if he used steroids? Does anyone else think it was suggested he say something ludicrous to imply that he really, really, doesn't know anything about steroids?

Now he's talking about lidocaine and B-12 - someone has to ask Clemens tomorrow where those injections took place. If he says it was in the ass, the statement by the sports medicine Doctor quoted in New York Daily News proves he's lying, as the Doc says that you don't shoot it in your ass and you don't have a buddy shoot it either. If he says that McNamee shot him in the elbow, then the question is, why a non-medical professional??

As for that ludicrous answer about why McNamee would lie:

WALLACE What, hold, what did McNamee gain by lying?

CLEMENS Evidently not going to jail.

Isn't it true that liars often have a little kernel of truth in what they say? "Evidently not going to jail" is the perfect answer why McNamee is telling the truth - and if he read the report, he knows precisely what McNamee's motivation is to tell the truth.

[Jim Alfredson]

As someone who doesn't care about baseball, why the fuck is Congress wasting our tax dollars on this bullshit?

[Dan Gould]

One more observation, hopefully info will come out from Mitchell or his staff, what did they tell people when they gave them the opportunity to respond to allegations? Did they just say that there have credible information and you can come to talk to us about it, or did they give any other info about where it might have come from? That would go to whether or not he really would have come running to try to refute McNamee's statements if he knew about them.

[Dan Gould]

As someone who doesn't care about baseball, why the fuck is Congress wasting our tax dollars on this bullshit?

Baseball has an anti-trust exemption from Congress. That gives Congress an interest in how they conduct the business. Congress has for a significant period of time, increased the regulation of, and upped the penalty for, the distribution of steroids and other performance enhancers. When ballplayers who are looked up to by millions of impressionable kids, Congress has an interest in looking at steroid use in the game.

And furthermore, the idea that Congress is somehow "wasting money" when there are more pressing national concerns is utterly ludicrous.

There are 450 members of the House of Representatives. They are well capable of doing a whole bunch of different things (poorly) all at the same time.

[T.D.]

Really, if Congress wanted to seriously investigate performance enhancing drugs (PED) within the context of the antitrust agreement, they should go after MLB management (Commissioner, club GMs, owners) and the Players Union.

I'm certain that, from the mid/late '80s on, the sport was riddled with PED use, management from the Commissioner's Office on down turned a blind eye to it, and the Players Union fostered a fertile environment for drug taking. I don't particularly blame individual players; with so much money at stake, what do you expect? "Don't hate the player, hate the game..."

[Dan Gould]

Well, the first day's testimony will be by Bud and Don (and I think a couple of other people but I am not sure) and they did the same thing last time around, so I think that Congress has at least to a tiny extent, gone after the ones who should have been on top of it. I do tend to agree with you that its more MLB's fault than the players/Union because it seems painfully obvious that MLB didn't want to know what was going on, especially in the aftermath of the '94 strike and the way that McGuire and Sosa "saved" the game.

What I do find ridiculous is the idea that a guy who never rose above low "A" ball with a high-80s fastball is talking about leading a class-action suit against MLB for allowing steroids to give some players an edge and hurting those who didn't partake. You can read about his claim here.

[Dan Gould]

Well now it really is game on since Roger followed up his 60 Minutes appearance by filing his defamation lawsuit. Apparently it hangs on a claim that McNamee "admitted" that Federal agents bullied him into speaking ill of Clemens. Funny, I seriously doubt that McNamee would ever say anything like that, even if it were true, because he'd know what it does to his credibility and his legal risk. Furthermore, since he hired a lawyer right after Clemens and his lawyers went after him, how did they manage to have private investigators interview McNamee? Doesn't his lawyer tell them "you can depose him when a suit is filed"?

[alocispepraluger102]

More on lidocaine from Lupica's column:

"Lidocaine is for ligaments or tendons or pain areas, to numb them," Dr. Lewis Maraham, whose business is sports medicine, said Saturday. "It would not be shot into somebody's butt, because there is no systemic effect. You need a prescription for it, but no legitimate doctor gives it to patients to inject or have their friends inject."

Still sticking with that story, Roger?

you beat me to the punch on the lidocaine affair.

i would expect roger not to testify before congress because of 'pending litigation,' which may not apply in this case.

rog and pettitte were very very close, so his pettitte story is ridiculous. rog got the trainer the job in toronto, then in new york.

[Dan Gould]

The lawsuit's claims about how Mitchell got his information can be contradicted by McNamee's own lawyers, who told the NY Daily News. Compare this part of the News' interview with the lawyers:

DN: Were you present during the Mitchell interviews and the interviews with the federal investigators?

WARD: Yes. The only pressure on him was to tell the truth. There was no pressure. In fact, they had no idea that Roger Clemens was the person (involved) when they first spoke to Brian.

DN: How did he hold up with the investigators?

WARD: They didn't bully him. They allowed him to speak. It wasn't contentious.

To the claims made in the defamation suit:

According to Clemens' suit, McNamee decided only to cooperate with Mitchell after the threat of prosecution and that McNamee's interview with Mitchell "was conducted like a Cold War-era interrogation in which a federal agent merely read to the Mitchell investigators McNamee's previously obtained statement and then asked McNamee to confirm what he previously stated."

Now, his lawyers could testify as to how the interview was conducted, but as witnesses I think they'd have to recuse themselves from representing him. So is this partially a ploy to get rid of the talented lawyers who have (iirc) taken the case pro bono?

[Dan Gould]

Looks like Clemens has already been caught in a lie in the 60 Minutes interview - when he said that he had no idea about the Mitchell Report until it was released. According to Newsday, his attorneys sent their private investigators to talk to McNamee before the Mitchell Report was released. That's how they got the supposed info about how the Feds browbeat him into ratting on Clemens. Makes perfect sense since there is no way McNamee would talk to Clemens PIs after the report came out - but admitting that he sent private investigators to interview him shows that Clemens had something to be worried about ahead of time, and that doesn't jibe with his claim of innocence. Much better to proclaim that he was "shocked" when the report was released.

Yet another thing for the reporters to ask about three hours from now.

[Jim Alfredson]

As someone who doesn't care about baseball, why the fuck is Congress wasting our tax dollars on this bullshit?

When ballplayers who are looked up to by millions of impressionable kids, Congress has an interest in looking at steroid use in the game.

Spare me. Somehow I doubt Congress has taken such an interest in this because "of the children".

[Dan Gould]

As someone who doesn't care about baseball, why the fuck is Congress wasting our tax dollars on this bullshit?

When ballplayers who are looked up to by millions of impressionable kids, Congress has an interest in looking at steroid use in the game.

Spare me. Somehow I doubt Congress has taken such an interest in this because "of the children".

I am sure you're right, and they didn't actually include in the 2005 hearings the father of a High School football player who killed himself after he stopped using steroids.

Oh wait. Yes they did.

[gslade]

Really, if Congress wanted to seriously investigate performance enhancing drugs (PED) within the context of the antitrust agreement, they should go after MLB management (Commissioner, club GMs, owners) and the Players Union.

I'm certain that, from the mid/late '80s on, the sport was riddled with PED use, management from the Commissioner's Office on down turned a blind eye to it, and the Players Union fostered a fertile environment for drug taking. I don't particularly blame individual players; with so much money at stake, what do you expect? "Don't hate the player, hate the game..."

Yes,

They are all

Accommplices and co-conspirators for profit

Congressional oversight just gives the appearance of a credible investigation

and masks the collusion thus protecting the "Money Mad Pirates" (not just the Pittsburg Pirates)

I doubt the owners turned a blind eye when the game was bleeding potential profits to Football and Basketball who were raking it in.

Yes they knew and encouraged what was going on.

They will sacrifice players and even the "era" in order to save the machine

Shouldn't all the records in the PED era have an asterisk including WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS???

Shouldn't all the records in the Racist era have an asterisk including WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS???

Shouldn't all sports have an asterisk.

Shouldn't we teach the kids all sports are FOR PROFIT AND DIVERSION FROM REALITY

But if you can make a buck at it, it must be OK

[T.D.]

Shouldn't we teach the kids all sports are FOR PROFIT AND DIVERSION FROM REALITY

But if you can make a buck at it, it must be OK

Well, we oughta teach the kids, especially the current obese generation, that sports are to be participated in, for recreation and fitness. Fuck the pros; instead of watching, get off your ass and do something.

But that ain't gonna happen.

[Dan Gould]

Did anyone change their mind based on the phone call Clemens taped and played at his press conference? Did the press conference change anyone's opinion?

As for the latter question, I have less confidence in the likelihood that congressmen will stand up to Clemens, but on the other hand, once he is sworn in, he doesn't get to say "I've said enough" and storm off. It will be real impressive if he tries to use his supposed outrage to browbeat anyone into accepting his story.

The phone conversation is certainly interesting. But just as Rusty Hardin points out that McNamee never says "you know I am telling the truth", as many times as Clemens says "I need you to tell the truth", McNamee also never says that he lied to the Feds or Senator Mitchell. Never does he say "you're right Roger, I am sorry I lied, I never should have done it, please forgive me. I am going to tell the world that its not true that you used steroids."

In fact, it seems to me there is only one way to interpret the most important statement on the tape:

"I'm in your corner," McNamee said. "I'd also like not to go to jail, too."

He's saying, I don't want to hurt you or your family, but I also have to tell the truth. Otherwise I'll go to jail.

I also find that Hardin displays extraordinary chutzpah when he says that the defamation suit in no way accuses the Federal government of misconduct, when the explanation of why McNamee supposedly testified falsely was the insistence by the Feds that he serve up Clemens. You can't have it both ways, and the biggest question becomes, exactly how was the interview conducted? His lawyers insist it was "non-coercive" and that the Feds were surprised that he identified Clemens. Since they witnessed the interviews, if they saw coercion being used, aren't they duty-bound as an officer of the court to report such misconduct and not to further what is basically a conspiracy to destroy Clemens reputation?

And as far as what McNamee might have said to the investigators - isn't it just as likely that, feeling guilty about ratting out Clemens, he told them that he was forced to say these things by the Feds, rather than telling them that he simply told the truth?

[connoisseur series500]

Like Jim, I couldn't give a flip about baseball, but I happened to catch the taped telephone call. It seemed like a Clemens set shot to help improve his image. I would be disturbed by the lack of clarity from a rambling and circular 17-minute personal call. I don't think the overall effect is flattering to Clemens at all. He seemed very angry at the following press conference. Lots of anger; not sure about the candour.

[Dan Gould]

And it very much sounds like someone who is distraught at having hurt a friend - not because he was forced to lie to do so but because he knows its the truth and he had to be candid in order to avoid criminal charges. I stopped listening and can't yet find a transcript anywhere - but did McNamee ever say "I'm sorry for lying about you"? Did the word "lying" ever come out of his mouth? Clemens was smart from a legal perspective to not say anything that might be construed as witness tampering, but it doesn't make the tape any sort of "smoking gun".

In fact, SI.com has an 'exclusive' interview in which McNamee does come across as truly regretful that he had to tell the truth about Clemens and that he doesn't feel that Clemens was anything like the other steroid users in the game - that he only used it in July/August, seemingly to finish a season strong.

Considering how Clemens used the phone call to boost himself, the ball is very much in McNamee's court as to how to respond. He may just have to give his own press conference before the Congressional hearing.

[T.D.]

...

Considering how Clemens used the phone call to boost himself, the ball is very much in McNamee's court as to how to respond. He may just have to give his own press conference before the Congressional hearing.

I don't see any reason for McNamee to give a press conference. Clemens is giving press conferences to try and protect his image. McNamee is simply trying to stay out of jail (or minimize his sentence), and doesn't seem to have any reason to do anything outside a courtroom venue. Tough to imagine McNamee's counsel letting him give a press conference (unless the claims about him firing his lawyer are true ). But then, I wouldn't have expected Clemens's counsel to let him play the taped phone call gambit. Maybe the headstrong clients are ignoring legal advice...

[vajerzy]

I caught the beginning on XM and recorded it....I had my 7 yr old daughter with me when the F-bombs came out so I shut off the radiof- I'll listen to it later tonight

Couple of questions/observations:

- Is it legal to tape the telephone call then play it in public?

- Doesn't this sound like a bitter divorce....one spouse saying I'm sorry I hurt you the other saying the wife and kids are devastated?

- What little I heard of Clemen's conference this evening- isn't he acting like a bully daring people to challenge him?

- Why do I feel like I need a shower after hearing this?

I believe Clemens shot up......isn't rage a side effect? I thought he was juiced back in the WS against the Mets when he fired the bat at Piazza then explained he thought it was a ball.

He's so BIG now.......

Dibble and Kennedy believe Clemens and think the trainer is a rat- I think they're very biased.

[Tim McG]

Clemens gets the benefit of the doubt, Bonds is automatically guilty.

You watch.

[Tim McG]

As someone who doesn't care about baseball, why the fuck is Congress wasting our tax dollars on this bullshit?

Because GEE Dumbya needs a smoke screen for his failed Iraq War, housing/mortgage crisis and environmental gaffs.

Bush is all about the cover not the reality.