Baseball Steroid Thread

[Chalupa]

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about the impact it will have on the Bonds case then as it will have on the whole steroids controversy. I think for baseball to move on they(the league and the union) have to deal w/ the list in an open and truthful manner and as long as the IDs of the 104 are "unknown" I don't think there can be any resolution. Not that making the names public would solve the whole problem but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Stop dragging it out and deal w/ the problem for once and for all.

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about the impact it will have on the Bonds case then as it will have on the whole steroids controversy. I think for baseball to move on they(the league and the union) have to deal w/ the list in an open and truthful manner and as long as the IDs of the 104 are "unknown" I don't think there can be any resolution. Not that making the names public would solve the whole problem but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Stop dragging it out and deal w/ the problem for once and for all.

I disagree. The tests were agreed to on the basis of anonymity. Each time a name has leaked its been a violation of Federal law by someone who is subject to the court-ordered seal. The valid search warrant trumps the promise of anonymity for the ten connected to BALCO. But no one has any right to leak the other names. What if a different business were involved - what if it was your own work-related drug test being leaked to the press? Now I'm not saying that recent drug tests shouldn't be released, but there is a negotiated penalty and agreed to loss of anonymity if you test positive since 2003. The 2003 tests were supposed to be anonymous and they should stay that way. I'd rather see a serious investigation into who has done the leaking than decide that everyone else who tested positive should lose their rights too.

This is not to say that I expect any end to the piecemeal release of the rest of the names. But it doesn't make it any more right to just release these names all at once.

Like the BALCO defense attorney who served a prison sentence for releasing the Grand Jury testimony, someone, or several someones, should be going to prison for releasing these names. But there is no way to just release the other 100 names because both MLB and the Union are party to the Judge's order sealing the information. No one can legally release it. Period.

Its f-ed up, but we are a country of laws - and the law in this case should be adhered to.

[Tim McG]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I am with Hank Aaron on this one: Make the 104 names public and let's get on with our lives. Enough already.

And you still need proof Bonds "knowingly" took steroids, Danny. That is our system of government and without proof, the Feds got no case.

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about the impact it will have on the Bonds case then as it will have on the whole steroids controversy. I think for baseball to move on they(the league and the union) have to deal w/ the list in an open and truthful manner and as long as the IDs of the 104 are "unknown" I don't think there can be any resolution. Not that making the names public would solve the whole problem but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Stop dragging it out and deal w/ the problem for once and for all.

Exactly.

Well put.

Edited August 26, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, who cares if its information under seal by a Federal court, or that the players gave up their fourth amendment rights because their anonymity was assured.

None of that stuff matters at all.

[Tim McG]

Yeah, who cares if its information under seal by a Federal court, or that the players gave up their fourth amendment rights because their anonymity was assured.

None of that stuff matters at all.

You gleefully made hash out of the BALCO leaks regarding Barry Bonds, Danny.

And given your propencity to assume facts ahead of actual evidence, WTF do you care about constitutional rights? Including the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments.

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, who cares if its information under seal by a Federal court, or that the players gave up their fourth amendment rights because their anonymity was assured.

None of that stuff matters at all.

You gleefully made hash out of the BALCO leaks regarding Barry Bonds, Danny.

And given your propencity to assume facts ahead of actual evidence, WTF do you care about constitutional rights? Including the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments.

I applauded the arrest and conviction and sentencing of the DEFENSE attorney who leaked the BALCO Grand Jury testimony. Just as I have no problem with the reporting that certain players are on the list of 104, the FIRST AMENDMENT of a free press is paramount and as such, the NYT is free to publish the information they receive as the San Francisco paper was free to publish the Grand Jury testimony of one Barry Lamar Bonds.

See, Timmy?

[Chalupa]

Its f-ed up, but we are a country of laws - and the law in this case should be adhered to.

Yes you're right and unfortunately for baseball the steroid controversy(and list of the 104) will be the 800 pound gorilla that everyone wants to go away but won't.

So what happens then??

I don't have the answer - just thinking out loud.

[Chalupa]

Just found this follow up article on espn....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4425039

[Tim McG]

Yeah, who cares if its information under seal by a Federal court, or that the players gave up their fourth amendment rights because their anonymity was assured.

None of that stuff matters at all.

You gleefully made hash out of the BALCO leaks regarding Barry Bonds, Danny.

And given your propencity to assume facts ahead of actual evidence, WTF do you care about constitutional rights? Including the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments.

I applauded the arrest and conviction and sentencing of the DEFENSE attorney who leaked the BALCO Grand Jury testimony. Just as I have no problem with the reporting that certain players are on the list of 104, the FIRST AMENDMENT of a free press is paramount and as such, the NYT is free to publish the information they receive as the San Francisco paper was free to publish the Grand Jury testimony of one Barry Lamar Bonds.

How laudable, Danny.

But that still doesn't discount the fact you used that leaked information to defame Bonds.

That kinda makes you an accessory after that fact now, doesn’t it.

[vajerzy]

Dan and Good Speak should put each other on their ignore list- that'll fix it!

[Jim Alfredson]

Any more personal insults and this thread is going bye-bye. I don't have the time to constantly monitor it.

[Tim McG]

Thank you, Jim.

You can count on my cooperation.

[Aggie87]

Well well well, Mark McGwire has just admitted that he took steroids on and off for a decade, including in 1998, the year he broke Roger Maris' home run record.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Aggie87

[papsrus]

Well well well, Mark McGwire has just admitted that he took steroids in 1998, the year he broke Roger Maris' home run record.

Pretty big news. Good for him, but hard to interpret it as anything other than part of his image rehab ahead of his new job as hitting coach for Cards.

[Chalupa]

Long overdue. Still doesn't get into the Hall but, he's got some respect back now that he has owned up to it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4816607

"Now that I have become the hitting coach for the St. Louis Cardinals, I have the chance to do something that I wish I was able to do five years ago.

I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come. It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected. I used steroids during my playing career and I apologize. I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 off season and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again. I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season.

I wish I had never touched steroids. It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era.

During the mid-'90s, I went on the DL seven times and missed 228 games over five years. I experienced a lot of injuries, including a ribcage strain, a torn left heel muscle, a stress fracture of the left heel, and a torn right heel muscle. It was definitely a miserable bunch of years and I told myself that steroids could help me recover faster. I thought they would help me heal and prevent injuries, too.

I'm sure people will wonder if I could have hit all those home runs had I never taken steroids. I had good years when I didn't take any and I had bad years when I didn't take any. I had good years when I took steroids and I had bad years when I took steroids. But no matter what, I shouldn't have done it and for that I'm truly sorry.

Baseball is really different now -- it's been cleaned up. The commissioner and the players' association implemented testing and they cracked down, and I'm glad they did.

I'm grateful to the Cardinals for bringing me back to baseball. I want to say thank you to Cardinals owner Mr. DeWitt, to my GM, John Mozeliak, and to my manager, Tony La Russa. I can't wait to put the uniform on again and to be back on the field in front of the great fans in Saint Louis. I've always appreciated their support and I intend to earn it again, this time as hitting coach. I'm going to pour myself into this job and do everything I can to help the Cardinals hitters become the best players for years to come.

After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony, but now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it. I'll do that, and then I just want to help my team."

[Brad]

I don't know if he wrote that but no matter, he was very forthright. Doesn't excuse what he did but at least he owned up, not like Clemens or Bar-roid.

[Larry Kart]

Help me out here -- why wasn't he "in a position to do that five years ago in [his] congressional testimony"? (My emphasis]

[papsrus]

Help me out here -- why wasn't he "in a position to do that five years ago in [his] congressional testimony"? (My emphasis]

He's being advised by his current attorney to say his previous attorney advised him to say nothing.

[BERIGAN]

Help me out here -- why wasn't he "in a position to do that five years ago in [his] congressional testimony"? (My emphasis]

I do think it was hard on him to tell everyone he knows that he really did do it....Hank Aaron said something like, he didn't murder anyone, he did steroids.

I agree. Shame he did it, and he's going to pay for it, he will never go into the hall.

[vajerzy]

Well well well, Mark McGwire has just admitted that he took steroids on and off for a decade, including in 1998, the year he broke Roger Maris' home run record.

I'll take DUH for $2,000 Alex.

[Quincy]

I agree. Shame he did it, and he's going to pay for it, he will never go into the hall.

There's a rumor that La Russa might PH him this year just to reset Mark's Hall Of Fame clock. If it happens (and I'm skeptical it will) who knows what another 5 years could do as far how the voters feel about this.

[BERIGAN]

I agree. Shame he did it, and he's going to pay for it, he will never go into the hall.

There's a rumor that La Russa might PH him this year just to reset Mark's Hall Of Fame clock. If it happens (and I'm skeptical it will) who knows what another 5 years could do as far how the voters feel about this.

That's true. What happens if Sosa, Bonds and Clemens admit in the near future??? Bonds and Clemens had HOF numbers even without steroids...but, they still did them.

[Matthew]

I agree. Shame he did it, and he's going to pay for it, he will never go into the hall.

There's a rumor that La Russa might PH him this year just to reset Mark's Hall Of Fame clock. If it happens (and I'm skeptical it will) who knows what another 5 years could do as far how the voters feel about this.

Well, here's the thing: I think this entire "confession" has been orchestrated by The Genius Tony LaRussa™ , who is making it his mission in life to rehabilitate McGwire for the Hall of Fame. Is that all it takes now is to go ahead and cheat, make your millions, and a day-late-and-a-dollar-short, say, "Gee, I guess I was wrong, sorry, my bad!" WTH? McGwire was a crappy player, on the level of Dave Kingman before he took PEDs, so in my book, he's out now, and just on merits alone, he should never get in the HofF, confession or no confession.

[Chuck Nessa]

[Tim McG]

Well well well, Mark McGwire has just admitted that he took steroids on and off for a decade, including in 1998, the year he broke Roger Maris' home run record.

OK.

So why didn't he break the record ten years before, then? How about five years before? Three? Two?

Further proof that steriods only make you bigger, not a HR hitter.

I agree. Shame he did it, and he's going to pay for it, he will never go into the hall.

There's a rumor that La Russa might PH him this year just to reset Mark's Hall Of Fame clock. If it happens (and I'm skeptical it will) who knows what another 5 years could do as far how the voters feel about this.

That's true. What happens if Sosa, Bonds and Clemens admit in the near future??? Bonds and Clemens had HOF numbers even without steroids...but, they still did them.

It only matters if you erroneously beleive that steriods somehow enhance your ability to hit HRs or throw strikes.

This would be comparable to me saying I'm a pro athlete because I buy Wheaties.

Seriously. Time to wake up, Guys.

Well well well, Mark McGwire has just admitted that he took steroids on and off for a decade, including in 1998, the year he broke Roger Maris' home run record.

I'll take DUH for $2,000 Alex.

I'll take hypocrisy for a buck, Alex Roid-riguez.

Edited January 12, 2010 by GoodSpeak