Baseball Steroid Thread

[papsrus]

I honestly didn't watch it. Saw some of the "highlights" on ESPN later. But somebody on First Take said something kind of interesting yesterday before his press conference to the effect that when A-Rod answers a question, he always seems as though he's trying to guess the right answer, as opposed to simply being sincere and giving an honest answer. I think that nails it. ... Perhaps the pause was him guessing that this was the moment he was supposed to get emotional, but he couldn't quite summon it.

[Matthew]

Through the wonders of the internet, I can tell even here in Nairobi what a lying jerk ARod is in this interview. Class guy, blame his unnamed cousin and still not take any responsibilty, just the old tired line "I was naive and young". I never believed a word that came out of this guy's mouth, and it's only going to worse. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person, it'll be great when we find out he's been juicing as a Yankee since day one and he will be exposed further as A-Fraud.

[zen archer]

He has to be juicing as a Yankee didn't they say he gained 20 pounds of muscle mass between the first year and the 2nd year

as a Yankee ?

Can a human do that in a three and a half month off season ?

[Aggie87]

Through the wonders of the internet, I can tell even here in Nairobi what a lying jerk ARod is in this interview. Class guy, blame his unnamed cousin and still not take any responsibilty, just the old tired line "I was naive and young". I never believed a word that came out of this guy's mouth, and it's only going to worse. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person, it'll be great when we find out he's been juicing as a Yankee since day one and he will be exposed further as A-Fraud.

Didn't he also admit to taking something while he was a Mariner? I didn't really listen with both ears to ESPN's replaying(s) last night, due to kid's homework and things.

So at first it was ONLY while he was a Ranger, then it was extended to when he was both a Ranger and a Mariner. I'd venture he's been doing things as a Yankee as well, with better masking.

[Dan Gould]

He says in Seattle that he took something called Ripped Fuel from GNC that contained the amphetamine that killed that overweight Baltimore pitcher a few years back. He hasn't said anything yet about actual, definite juicing in Seattle, but I think Serena Roberts will have something on that.

[TedR]

I'd love to know from Selena Roberts if, after all the accusations ("misunderstanding") by A-Rod, the meeting went well and she's putting it behind her.

Who was at the podium controlling the press conference? I found it telling when he said he was picking reporters that regularly covered the Yankees. Is it possible the implication was denying future access if a question was too difficult?

[Brownian Motion]

[Dan Gould]

Interesting story broken by the Daily News. Anyone remember when Juan Gone and his trainer were linked to a bag full of steroids that had been stopped at the Canadian border? They decided to send it on to see who would pick it up, which turned out to be Gonzales' trainer, a guy named Angel Presinal. After no charges were filed, MLB banned Presinal from all private areas of every MLB park.

Guess who A-Rod has been hanging with for many years, according to no fewer than four sources? Same dude. One source said he was with him all through 2007, but never in public. He traveled and stayed in the same hotel room with ... the Miami cousin drug mule.

And what did A-Rod say about his post-Texas, supposedly "clean" seasons? He was so proud of 2007 because it was his "best" year. How is that for coincidence? This guy is probably the dirtiest trainer known in terms of messing up and being identified, and he worked with the ultimate poster child for "steroids may help you but they can shorten your career, too", Juan Gonzales. And he spent 2007 standing in the shadows with A-Rod while he hit 54 homers or something.

How much would you bet A-Rod was on a new designer steroid, plus masking agents, in that "great" season?

[Dan Gould]

Here's the story.

[Dan Gould]

The NYT says banned substances found on syringe with Clemens' DNA.

Two reactions:

Clemens’s lead lawyer, Rusty Hardin, said Monday night that he was not surprised to learn that performance-enhancing substances had been found.

“Duh,” he said with exaggeration. “Do you really think McNamee was going to fabricate this stuff and not make sure there were substances on there? The fact is Roger never used steroids or H.G.H.”

Jennifer L. Mnookin, a professor of law at U.C.L.A., said that a judge would most likely deem the drug paraphernalia admissible and allow a jury to assess its credibility.

“The presence of Clemens’s DNA alone makes these materials an important part of the case and makes it likely that the judge would let them in and let the jury weigh whether to believe that they are authentic,” she said.

Clemens lawyers, she added, would most likely argue that the materials were fabricated or contaminated.

“And at that point,” Mnookin said, “a jury will be back at square one, trying to decide whether they believe McNamee or Clemens.”

Of course, what she's forgetting is that there is also Andy Pettitte with his independent recollections that Clemens told him he was using.

Roger has two choices: Wait to get indicted then initiate a negotiation on a plea or get fitted for a prison jumpsuit in a variety of attractive colors.

Afterward, when he's paid McNamee an enormous amount to settle his countersuit, do you think he can recover some of it by suing Rusty for malpractice?

[Brownian Motion]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowit...f_b_200274.html

[Matthew]

Very Interesting Article on Manny and PED's

[Dan Gould]

Very Interesting Article on Manny and PED's

Sorry, I don't find it interesting due to all of the shit he piles up around his fundamental claim - that Manny might be trying to get his wife pregnant, might have a problem doing that, and might be legitimately prescribed the medication he tested positive for. I also have no interest in an obnoxious blogger who does not even put his name on his work.

But if its true, its a simple matter for Manny to come out and explain the circumstances of his positive test. Let's see him do it.

[Quincy]

Very Interesting Article on Manny and PED's

Well I found it interesting. Note one can click on the author's "name" and see other articles he's written easily enough. He does tend to view things from a racial perspective but someone has to so that doesn't bug me and also he's interesting enough based on a couple of other articles of his I read. For what's it's worth a few making-baby-centric sites that don't appear to be totally whacked do indeed prominently list the drug as a fertility treatment for men. At this point privacy is pretty much done for, so if it is the reason Manny might as well say so, not that many will believe him whatever he says.

But no matter which way it falls I don't really care. He's been a fantastic player & colorful character, almost like something that's a combination of folklore & science fiction. As I'm not an elderly ticket agent or a spurned Red Sox fan I've greatly enjoyed the way he's carried himself throughout the years. Guess I have a thing for goofy eccentrics.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Quincy

[Dan Gould]

The racial stuff got tired incredibly quickly. When Bob Ryan mentioned people from the Dominican he made no assertions about "Spics" and "Niggers" which this asshat accused, and its pretty damn offensive if you ask me. And the whole thing about his "beautiful" wife - I don't believe she even lived in that luxury condo - she has stayed in Miami all year round with the kids to give them continuity. So not only does his assertions about his wife being the victim of "racist" Boston - when was his wife's happiness ever mentioned as even a tiny part of Manny's comfort in Boston? Everything was about whether or not Manny could go about town without being bothered by fans. He couldn't, and he never adjusted to it. Not a damn thing was ever said about his wife's happiness, and from what I know, she never lived in Boston, there is no evidence of racial attacks in Boston, and the whole idea that she pushed him out has no basis in a single report made by anyone anywhere except this asshole who again, does not put his name on anything. I don't give a shit to click on his "name" and see other idiotic things written by an asshat without the guts to put his name on his ramblings, particularly when they drip with accusations of racism against respected writers like Bob Ryan.

Two more things the asshole ignores:

Therapeutic Use Exemptions - if this was legitimate, why didn't Manny get one? And how could any doctor make such a mistake as to not know that something that supposedly works on a guy's balls wouldn't show up in drug testing?

And this, from Stark:

If you read more extensively about this drug, though, you'll learn that it IS occasionally used to address male infertility. Except if you read the small print, you'll also learn that, according to sharedjourney.com:

"The FDA has not approved the use of Clomid in men, nor has it been found to be especially effective."

Great. So why would a doctor be prescribing it for a guy like Manny, then?

Good question, huh?

A truly upstanding male-fertility doctor wouldn't be likely to do that, right? And a truly upstanding doctor treating a professional athlete would also be likely to know it could cause him to set off a major drug-testing alarm, right?

So this asshat will take anybody's word for it that this stuff is used for male infertility, but doesn't even bother to mention that it has no legitimate use. If Laetrile existed today, he'd be touting the thousands of websites that claim its a cancer cure as some sort of proof of something or other.

Seriously, this guy gives blogging a bad name.

[WorldB3]

Dan and Good Speak, can you guys keep the name calling and politics out of it? It takes away from both of your arguments.

in my opinion there is a medium here. I live in the bay area and obviously Bonds took juice after 2000. Before that even when he was with the Pirates he was the best hitter I ever saw, I am an A's fan and I use to share season tickets to just to see Barry hit, since 93 you were in the presence of greatness. First ballot HOF in my opinion. Again as a Bay Area baseball fan my team the Oakland A's in 88 and early 2000's were the poster child for roids with Jose, McGwire, Jason and Miggy.

I will say this though that we have taken a lot of shit about Barry that wasn't fair in that he was the poster child for roids when you we know he wasn't the only one using. Anybody that singled out Barry wasn't looking at the real problem and how wide spread the usage was in the league.

Sellig, the Labor union, the owners, writers and fans all looked the other way. Singling out certain individuals might make you feel good so you can pass blame and have hate directed on but its living in denial.

Edited May 11, 2009 by WorldB3

[Dan Gould]

Dan and Good Speak, can you guys keep the name calling and politics out of it? It takes away from both of your arguments.

in my opinion there is a medium here. I live in the bay area and obviously Bonds took juice after 2000. Before that even when he was with the Pirates he was the best hitter I ever saw, I am an A's fan and I use to share season tickets to just to see Barry hit, since 93 you were in the presence of greatness. First ballot HOF in my opinion. Again as a Bay Area baseball fan my team the Oakland A's in 88 and early 2000's were the poster child for roids with Jose, McGwire, Jason and Miggy.

I will say this though that we have taken a lot of shit about Barry that wasn't fair in that he was the poster child for roids when you we know he wasn't the only one using. Anybody that singled out Barry wasn't looking at the real problem and how wide spread the usage was in the league.

Sellig, the Labor union, the owners, writers and fans all looked the other way. Singling out certain individuals might make you feel good so you can pass blame and have hate directed on but its living in denial.

'Not the only one" - but how do you decide who else did? We can only go by the evidence before us - and we know what the evidence shows - Bonds was a major abuser of steroids who transformed himself thereby.

Even if you want to extrapolate and presume that anyone who is shown to have used at any time must have been using at other times, this doesn't establish who else did or didn't use. You can paint with broad strokes and presume everyone did. I'll judge the evidence as it comes in.

Edited to make my last sentence clearer.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Dan Gould

[vajerzy]

Quote:

Sellig, the Labor union, the owners, writers and fans all looked the other way. Singling out certain individuals might make you feel good so you can pass blame and have hate directed on but its living in denial.

I believe it starts with Selig and Fehr.

[papsrus]

I believe it starts in high school.

[Chalupa]

Manny brought down by his own private medical records....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4159870

(excerpt)

The Ramirez saga, as described by three sources with direct knowledge of the case, began to play out in spring training when the 36-year-old outfielder provided a urine sample for testing.

The test came back showing elevated levels of testosterone. Every individual naturally produces testosterone and a substance called epitestosterone, typically at a ratio of 1:1. In Major League Baseball, if the ratio comes in at 4:1 during testing, a player is flagged. In Ramirez's case, his ratio was between 4:1 and 10:1, according to one source.

At that point, MLB notified Ramirez of his elevated levels and began further investigation, including taking two primary actions:

First, MLB asked the World Anti-Doping Agency lab in Montreal, which conducts its testing, to perform a carbon isotope ratio test to determine whether the testosterone spike resulted from natural variations within Ramirez's body or from an artificial source. The test revealed the testosterone was synthetic -- in other words, it was ingested somehow.

Secondly, as per the drug-testing policy, MLB requested all of Ramirez's medical records, including those from doctors he might have consulted outside of MLB. Addendum C of the policy is authorization by every player to provide "health information" from "all health care providers (including but not limited to [add Club orthopedist and medical internist], other physicians, laboratories, clinics and Club trainers) with whom I have consulted pursuant to my Uniform Player's Contract or the Basic Agreement."

Ramirez and his representatives were prepared to appeal the synthetic testosterone results, intending to argue he had taken a steroid precursor known as DHEA, according to two sources. The drug is akin to the now-banned substance famously known as Andro, but it is not on baseball's banned list.

Baseball had geared up to dispute the argument, and a Ramirez appeal was scheduled for last Wednesday. MLB's legal team intended to use expert testimony to cite evidence it believed showed DHEA could not have been the cause of the synthetic testosterone.

However, in the days before the hearing, the union turned over Ramirez's medical records -- and they turned out to be a boon for MLB.

Within the records was a prescription written for the drug human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) -- No. 55 on the list of banned performance-enhancing substances in the policy. The drug is mainly used for female fertility issues, but it is best known among male steroid users as a substance that can help kick-start the body's production of natural testosterone, which is stymied when using synthetic testosterone (aka steroids).

The synthetic testosterone in Ramirez's body could not have come from the hCG, according to doping experts, and so suddenly Ramirez had two drugs to answer for. Worse still for the ballplayer, MLB now had a document showing he had been prescribed a banned substance. This was iron-clad evidence that could secure a 50-game suspension.

And so, in the hours before the appeal was scheduled to proceed, Ramirez notified MLB that he would accept the 50 games and drop his planned legal fight.

Soon thereafter, he issued his statement that his suspension had resulted from taking a medication -- not a steroid -- that was prescribed to him by a physician. Technically, that was true, but it was hardly the complete story.

[Dan Gould]

I find it remarkable that Roger Clemens is going on ESPN Radio today for an interview. After all of the legal setbacks and the reports about the medical evidence and losing his name off of the hospital wing and being told to stay away from other charitable functions, you'd think he'd be fully convinced to lay low and see what the Feds do.

Instead he is giving an interview on the Mike & Mike show, his first sit down interview with anyone since Mike Wallace, afaik. And so much has come out since then, I can't believe he'd go on offense now. Hopefully there will be a video link to the segment, and hopefully the hosts won't go easy on him.

What are the chances this is a one time thing or that its the start of a media blitz?

Edit to add that he's on at 8:25, about ten minutes from now. Guess I'll be late for work again.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Dan Gould

[Dan Gould]

Another lie - "(McNamee) made a buck". McNamee hasn't made any money from this situation, afaik. The money he'll make is when Clemens is in prison and then he decides to settle rather than contest McNamee's libel suit.

[Dan Gould]

A missed opportunity - when Roger repeated that "Andy misremembers" - "Roger, do you understand that isn't a credible response when Laura Pettitte confirms that the same time that it happened, Andy told her what you said about steroids/HGH? That isn't Andy misremembering a conversation ten years later, that's Andy telling his wife about the conversation, and her confirming it, contemporaneously."

Of course, "contemporaneously" would be a tough word for Roger to understand but ...

[T.D.]

I find it remarkable that Roger Clemens is going on ESPN Radio today for an interview...he is giving an interview on the Mike & Mike show...

Wow, what a high-powered intellectual conclave. I'm sure there will be oodles of clever repartee...Won't exactly evoke images of Bloomsbury, the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, or even a Mensa meeting.

Edited May 12, 2009 by T.D.

[Soulstation1]

I wonder why Big Papi is having problems this season