Baseball Steroid Thread

[WorldB3]

. That is the shame of the steroid era, the setting of records - or in Clemens' case, the extension of careers from maybe-a-Hall-of-Famer to no-doubt-about-it-status. When I hear that Fernando Vina used, I say so what? He didn't do shit on or off the juice.

I take it deeper than that. There are kids taking the stuff that are getting college scholarships over clean high school athletes and while the minor leagues test we know there are several players that made it to the show over others that were clean. Catching a couple of the big fish that are tainted doesn't mean its safe to eat everything out of the pond so to speak. In some ways its worse that fans paid money to see guys like Marvin Benard who took roids and still sucked, I would rather support someone who got there clean and at least tried their best.

[T.D.]

I'm strongly opposed to doping in sports, but a lot of the current hand-wringing about steroids in baseball strikes me as disingenuous. What was everybody saying during the height of the steroid era, say the McGwire-Sosa HR battles of 1998-1999? It couldn't have been more obvious that the participants in that freak show were doped to the gills, but nobody said a fucking thing! In fact, many of the dumbasses who hyped the crap out of the McGwire-Sosa spectacle (which was more suited to the World Wrestling Federation) are now crying about steroids. I don't get it.

Edited February 8, 2009 by T.D.

[Dan Gould]

I am not familiar with the exact details but minor league players aren't members of the Player's Union yet. To their credit, MLB initiated whatever rules they wanted as far as how often they test, and the results bear it out - the vast majority of players caught using banned substances are minor leaguers. I do believe that going forward the rate of use has declined. The problem now is more sorting out the steroid era than believing that the proportion of users is the same.

Call me naive if you wish - I realize that there is no test for HGH and its a constant battle to find a way to detect the newest drugs. But I think between the testing regime, the risk of penalty as well as how steroid users have been treated, steroid use is much lower than it was and is more likely to go down than to ever rise again.

[papsrus]

I don't think there's a single athlete in any sport that I'd be surprised to learn used a performance enhancing substance. They're definitely using in high school these days, and some coaches look the other way. Hell, some parents look the other way, if they think their kid can get a scholarship or have a shot at a pro career. The culture of "win at any cost" plays no small role here, I believe.

If I were a "clean" athlete, I'd be pretty eager to prove that I was clean at this point, union rules be damned.

Edited February 8, 2009 by papsrus

[alocispepraluger102]

I am not familiar with the exact details but minor league players aren't members of the Player's Union yet. To their credit, MLB initiated whatever rules they wanted as far as how often they test, and the results bear it out - the vast majority of players caught using banned substances are minor leaguers. I do believe that going forward the rate of use has declined. The problem now is more sorting out the steroid era than believing that the proportion of users is the same.

Call me naive if you wish - I realize that there is no test for HGH and its a constant battle to find a way to detect the newest drugs. But I think between the testing regime, the risk of penalty as well as how steroid users have been treated, steroid use is much lower than it was and is more likely to go down than to ever rise again.

baseball needs the olympic testing standard. till then, it's a joke.

[alocispepraluger102]

I don't think there's a single athlete in any sport that I'd be surprised to learn used a performance enhancing substance. They're definitely using in high school these days, and some coaches look the other way. Hell, some parents look the other way, if they think their kid can get a scholarship or have a shot at a pro career. The culture of "win at any cost" plays no small role here, I believe.

If I were a "clean" athlete, I'd be pretty eager to prove that I was clean at this point, union rules be damned.

derek jeter wanted to pay for monthlydrug tests from an independent lab, and the players union shot him down.

[zen archer]

Fenway will be full of signs that read ....A-Roid....this summah !

[papsrus]

Fenway will be full of signs that read ....A-Roid....this summah !

A-Rod's a head case and a superstar who draws a lot of negative attention onto himself, but there are a lot more names on that list (well, names on one list associated with numbers on another. I guess that's how they compiled the lists in an effort to preserve anonymity.) I wouldn't presume that any team is clean. In fact, I'd presume just the opposite -- that no team is clean. And forget the personal stats for a moment, if no team is clean what does that say about the championships won during this era? What if Manny is on that list? Or Big Papi? Or Schilling? How do we judge those championships?

I think you also have to presume that management turned a blind eye to the whole thing -- ka-ching. It's a little hard to believe otherwise.

The only way we're going to be able to judge this thing is for every test result to be made public. Otherwise, we're just dealing with fragments of information.

[Dan Gould]

Record setting performances and enormous contracts - or at least keeping a high-paying job in the major leagues - are the ill-gotten gains of this era. I don't see how you can question championships, and I say that even considering the fact that the Yankees were all over the Mitchell report. We can only barely try to tease out the cumulative effects of Bonds' juicing on his total home runs. Its impossible to decide that a specific achievement at a particular moment in time was because of steroids rather than talent.

And anyway, testing with penalties started in 2004. If there are championships to question, its the years prior that should be looked at. The Red Sox championships are clean!

[T.D.]

baseball needs the olympic testing standard. till then, it's a joke.

Can't see that happening. Too much money involved, and the players' union has too much power. MLB isn't alone in that regard: European professional football (e.g. English Premier League) is also very light on drug testing compared with the Olympics. For MLB to adopt IOC/WADA-level testing, the scandal would have to get so bad that either the players' union dissolves or Congress threatens to take away antitrust exemptions. Again, too much money involved, and MLB revenues don't suggest that fans have been significantly turned off by dope stories.

Let's not even talk about the NFL (I find it difficult to believe that league isn't chemical-fueled, regardless of the claimed level of testing ).

Edited February 8, 2009 by T.D.

[Soulstation1]

Jose told the truth

[WorldB3]

A great piece by Bruce Jenkins today on A-Rod. One of my favorite writers hits it out of the park this morning on this issue.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/threed...=35581#comments

[Dan Gould]

Its been reported in a couple of places that A-Rod will do an interview with ESPN, possibly today, probably with Gammons, and yet I can't find anything about it on their website or on any of their channels. Seems as though, if they had that critical "get", they'd be promoting the hell out of it.

[T.D.]

Jose told the truth

Word.

[Dan Gould]

Jose told the truth

Word.

Yet he's still a scumbag who had three rounds to put away Danny F-ing Partridge and couldn't do it.

[Soulstation1]

Wow

A-Rod admits steroid use in '03

[Dan Gould]

More than that - ESPN is reporting that he acknowledged using PEDs from 2001-2003. And the interview with Gammons will air at 6 pm.

I think its smart of him to 'fess up because there was no other way around it. Now will he discuss in general terms what it was like in MLB at that time? Will he rat anyone else out? How apologetic will he be? His problem has always been that he is so careful with image, he ends up sounding plastic and fake. And now where does he go from here? That's three years of home runs that are tainted. And he's admitted something that he denied many, many times.

Definitely must-see TV at 6 pm.

[Chalupa]

Holy crap. I can't believe he fessed up. Good for him. Hey Roger, are you listening? Barry? Time to spill the beans.

[Aggie87]

So of the big name players who have been linked to usage:

Admitted:

A-Rod

Andy Pettitte

Jason Giambi

Denied:

B*nds

Clemens

McGwire

Pudge

Sosa

Tejada

...

I'm sure there are other big names I'm forgetting on both lists. I wonder if Rodriguez' admission will help in the public eye (ala Pettitte), versus Bonds'/Clemens'/etc repeated denial, and subsequent vilification.

[Dan Gould]

Holy crap. I can't believe he fessed up. Good for him.

They say confession is good for the soul ... and let's not forget that when A-Rod "confessed" that he isn't best buddies with Jeter anymore, he went out and had a monster season. I'd have to say that given his talent, there's a chance he could have an even better year this year, which scares the crap out of me as a Red Sox fan/Yankee hater.

[T.D.]

Disclaimer: I don't watch TV, and won't see the interview.

But, as a former New Yorker, I figure A-Hole-Rod had to confess. Otherwise the NY media would have hounded him to death. The prior confessions by Pettitte and Giambi, and the mild fan reaction thereto, were probably also factors in the decision.

Re. Canseco: Hey, I'll never deny he's a buffoonish dolt, but I always believed the book (I even read the damn thing!). Were any libel suits ever filed?

Edited February 9, 2009 by T.D.

[TedR]

The quote I saw today had A-Rod apologizing to all the Texas fans. Now he'll deny any subsequent use after Texas. After all, he's believable because he was honest and admitted wrongdoing. Hmmmm.......

[Brownian Motion]

[

So, now what....ban all of them? Expunge the MLB record of all their accomplishments? Asterisk every record? This is getting ridiculous.

Yup, yup, yup, and nope.

[Matthew]

I'm sure there are other big names I'm forgetting on both lists. I wonder if Rodriguez' admission will help in the public eye (ala Pettitte), versus Bonds'/Clemens'/etc repeated denial, and subsequent vilification.

I don't think that admitting to taking PED's is going to help ARod at all, there is just something about him that puts him in the Barry Bonds category, that feeling of "the whole world revolves around me" vibe that he radiates, I don't think he's sorry in the least. The only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught. A great player that has tarnished his legacy, I've even read where people think he should not be in the HOF. Sad, really. Jayson Stark has an outstanding article on what this all means to the history of the game.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Matthew

[WorldB3]

But, as a former New Yorker, I figure A-Hole-Rod had to confess. Otherwise the NY media would have hounded him to death. The prior confessions by Pettitte and Giambi, and the mild fan reaction thereto, were probably also factors in the decision.

Comes down to that he is still under contract for nine more years with the Yanks, any thought ARod may have had of not confessing were not an option with management.