NYC subway attack motivated by religious bias/anti-Semitism

[Christiern]

This appeared in today's NY Times, but the AP failed to report that a bystander who intervened and was hurt during his rescue effort is a Muslim! That was reported on local TV news, which also showed a menorah in the window of an attacker's home. I have noticed that the AP's reporting is very sloppy and sometimes deliberately misleading (remember the PhotoShop Beirut photo?). I guess the mainstream press, in general, is not to be trusted.

December 11, 2007

NYC Subway Attack Possible Hate Crime

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 8:45 p.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- A group of people exchanging holiday greetings on a subway last week hurled anti-Semitic slurs and beat four Jewish riders who had wished them ''Happy Hanukkah,'' authorities said Tuesday.

The prosecutor's office was investigating the Friday night incident as a possible hate crime. The four Jewish riders were on a train in lower Manhattan during the eight-day Jewish Festival of Lights when they were approached by a group of 10 people who offered holiday greetings.

When they wished the group ''Happy Hanukkah,'' they were assaulted, police said. Police caught up with the train one stop later in Brooklyn and arrested eight men and two women, ages 19 and 20. The four Jewish riders had bruises and welts on their faces and heads, police said.

The group of ten people was arraigned Saturday on several charges, including third-degree assault and menacing and second-degree riot and harassment. They pleaded not guilty.

One of the men charged, Joseph Jirovec, 19, pleaded guilty last year to attempted robbery as a hate crime and was awaiting sentencing, prosecutors said. Jirovec, who is white, was part of a group that yelled racial epithets and assaulted two black teenagers in Brooklyn, prosecutors said. Jirovec's lawyer, Peter Mollo, said Tuesday it was very unlikely his client would attack another person because he or she was Jewish.

''His mother was Jewish,'' he said. ''It's very unlikely he would do something like this at all.''

[Jim Alfredson]

why would they mention the ethnicity of someone who helped the group?

I would think it would be an ironic twist since Muslims and Jews don't necessarily get along all that splendidly.

Why should this be in the political forum?

[analogak]

it happened in new york! there are not jews and muslims openly battling in the streets of new york. do we boycott each others businesses, etc? not that i know of. maybe if this happened in haifa or something...

[Jim Alfredson]

it should be in the political section because the israeli conflict was brought into the conversation when it didn't need to be.

Where was the Israeli conflict brought into the conversation?

[rockefeller center]

there is just no need to bring muslims into the conversation. the way the original poster posited the information made it seem like it is remarkable that a muslim would help a jew. which i don't think is remarkable. but why would it be surprising and ironic? do muslims not like jews in particular?

I agree (and I don't give a damn in which section this thread is put).

Edited December 12, 2007 by rockefeller center

[Christiern]

So, dumpy, do you see a need to leave out the Muslim? For that matter, leave out the fact that at least one fellow passenger chose not to do the New York no-see thing? I really don't know why we couldn't just have had a straight report on what happened. Would you have preferred it if the reporter also had not mentioned what sparked this attack?

Jim, my first inclination was to post this in the political forum, but then I decided that the story really is about religion--I believe in separating the two whenever possible and that this story ought to be equally upsetting to Democrats and Republicans. I also used it as an instance of poor reporting. Dumpy is apparently not bothered by the press giving us partial stories. The fact that a Muslim joined the fight to help fellow Jewish passengers is, I think, noteworthy, and pointing it out does not indicate any bias on my part. I really think Conrad would agree.

[Jazzmoose]

it should be in the political section because the israeli conflict was brought into the conversation when it didn't need to be.

Where was the Israeli conflict brought into the conversation?

Why, right there in the post you quote, Jim!

[Christiern]

Indeed--I think "dumpy"'s irrational objections are just a troll's deliberate attempt to be a contrarian nuisance.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm inclined to agree with Chris. It was an anti-Jewish attack. While everyone should be concerned, it really is noteworthy that only one person stepped in with assistance - and more noteworthy that that person was a Muslim.

Had the motive been robbery, the religion of the guy who came to help would be irrelevant.

MG

[rockefeller center]

I'm inclined to agree with Chris. It was an anti-Jewish attack. While everyone should be concerned, it really is noteworthy that only one person stepped in with assistance - and more noteworthy that that person was a Muslim.

This implies that in general people of different religions have a problem with each other -> noteworthiness because a person of religion x usually wouldn't help a person of religion y.

Had the motive been robbery, the religion of the guy who came to help would be irrelevant.

Most likely the attacker's motive was irrelevant to the guy who came to help -> religion of helper irrelevant.

[rockefeller center]

Jim, my first inclination was to post this in the political forum, but then I decided that the story really is about religion--I believe in separating the two whenever possible

That surely is a difficult task because the forum is named "Politics & Religion".

[Christiern]

Jim, my first inclination was to post this in the political forum, but then I decided that the story really is about religion--I believe in separating the two whenever possible

That surely is a difficult task because the forum is named "Politics & Religion".

Good point.

[MoGrubb]

I think it's particularly noteworthy to mention that a Muslim helped out. It's good PR by showing (the world) and setting an example that we all can get along, band together against a common enemy, crime. In these times we can use all the help we can get.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

This implies that in general people of different religions have a problem with each other -> noteworthiness because a person of religion x usually wouldn't help a person of religion y.

No it doesn't. It implies that, at the moment, a lot of people of those particular religions have a problem with each other. (Though it is true that, in Israel, there are many similar examples of ordinary people of different religions helping each other. These type of occasions seem not to make the news much, either.) The point is, what is newsworthy. And at present, and in the context of a racial attack, that is newsworthy. Or so it seems to me.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think it's particularly noteworthy to mention that a Muslim helped out. It's good PR by showing (the world) and setting an example that we all can get along, band together against a common enemy, crime. In these times we can use all the help we can get.

True.

MG

[Elissa]

I think it's a happy story that a Muslim dove in too. Aren't Muslims - in general - semites anyhow?

Mostly, however, the story reminded me of the amazing Henry Bean film, The Believer. Based on a true story from the 60s, but made contemporary (2001) an orthodox Jewish kid from Brooklyn joins an Jew-hating neo-fascist crowd. When a NY Times reporter discovers he's both, the fellow (the brilliant Ryan Gosling) threatens to kill himself if that's revealed. Anyone else see that?

[J Larsen]

This implies that in general people of different religions have a problem with each other -> noteworthiness because a person of religion x usually wouldn't help a person of religion y.

No, actually it is a contradiction of the widely propigated notion that Jews and Muslims "have a problem with each other." For that, it is a valuable and newsworthy story.

[Swinging Swede]

Aren't Muslims - in general - semites anyhow?

No, not in general. Arabs are Semites, but they only make up about 16 % of all Muslims. Most Muslims are not Semites.

[7/4]

Do keds exist anymore?

[rockefeller center]

Anybody please tell me which computer operating systems are used by the involved parties...

"Debian user helps user of Microsoft Windows XP"

[Randy Twizzle]

The now obligatory myspace photos of the thugs

[Christiern]

living here in new york, i'm sorry but i just don't think that is "noteworthy". there is not really tension of this sort and a stupid news article doesn't need to artificially create it.

did the victims have long beards and hooked noses and funny hats? were they wearing normal clothing? clean shaven and in keds and blue jeans? how did the muslim know the victms were jews? maybe he or she didn't. did the muslim hear the "happy hannukah" or did he or she just see an assault in progress? would the muslim helper have been upset if he or she knew he or she had helped jews? who knows. probably not. it doesn't matter. it isn't the point.

should that have been included? that sounds like an onion article-muslim dissapointed to learn he helped save jewish group from vicious attack

You either have your head in the sand or you have a problem with reality. Actually, I am more inclined to conclude that you are simply out to stir up controversy. Why all that venom? Are you really bothered by a story that shows how New Yorkers aren't all bad? You obviously missed the point entirely and I just wonder if it was by design.

If you really live in New York, perhaps you should make it a point to watch local news this evening (or NY1 at any time), then you will no longer have to make assumptions based on how little you know about this incident.

[J Larsen]

If you live in NYC you are surely aware that this "spin" was the basis for the cover of the NY Post (with the headline "Peace Train").

Fact: Jews were the victim of a hate crime on the train.

Fact: A muslim man intervened.

Fact: The media propagates the notion that these two groups are generally at odds.

Fact: The incident on the train contradicts this notion.

Most people see this as a good thing, for the very reason that it serves to dispel the misconception that you are railing against. I can't find anything to get offended about here.

[Christiern]

Dumpy: "i am not trying to stir up any trouble. i find your "spin" on the story to be offensive.

and it is tough for me to not see your spin having something to do with the stupid anti-israel/anti-arab battle you and your nemesis are having."

Well, that's your problem--I hope you resolve it. In the meantime, I am not going to be allow your venom and twisted logic to further interfere with my enjoyment of this board. Now, where is that ignore list option?

Edited December 12, 2007 by Christiern

[Elissa]

living here in new york, i'm sorry but i just don't think that is "noteworthy". there is not really tension of this sort and a stupid news article doesn't need to artificially create it.

did the victims have long beards and hooked noses and funny hats? were they wearing normal clothing? clean shaven and in keds and blue jeans? how did the muslim know the victms were jews? maybe he or she didn't. did the muslim hear the "happy hannukah" or did he or she just see an assault in progress? would the muslim helper have been upset if he or she knew he or she had helped jews? who knows. probably not. it doesn't matter. it isn't the point.

should that have been included? that sounds like an onion article-muslim dissapointed to learn he helped save jewish group from vicious attack

Of only tangential interest, to be certain: I've been in a number of NY taxi cabs whose drivers told me that not a few of the Muslims in their ranks will, when they are together and off work at the garage, talk freely of their powerful hatred for Jews and say things along the lines of: it's a good day if a Jew gets hit, etc etc. So it may be a bit shortsighted to imagine that such tension doesn't exist here. Of course, it's just as bad from the other side: one has but to listen half-heartedly at most any corner to hear the din of unconscionable disinterest for the plight of both (vis-a-vis the war) native Iraqis and (vis-a-vis the Mid East conflict) the Palestinians being so forcibly nudged from their homes. From either front at any rate, I can't imagine that the Paper of Record noting a harmony could hurt. Unless its real interest was to foment disharmony.