Moderators

[7/4]

Larry ->

[connoisseur series500]

Larry ->

Larry K!

[catesta]

Mr. Kart makes perfect sense to me.

If there was to be more than one, I do believe somebody from the other side should be included (brownie, MG,...).

[Aggie87]

Mr. Kart makes perfect sense to me.

If there was to be more than one, I do believe somebody from the other side should be included (brownie, MG,...).

The other side of what?

Come to the light, Brownie & MG!!!

[catesta]

Mr. Kart makes perfect sense to me.

If there was to be more than one, I do believe somebody from the other side should be included (brownie, MG,...).

The other side of what?

Come to the light, Brownie & MG!!!

The big pond!

[Jazzmoose]

Seriously, I think some of you are way overthinking his. You act like the board is broken and needs some repairs done to it; what it needs is funding, some admin oversight, and occassionally some light moderation. I've been here from the start and can only think of a handful of threads and/or posters that needed attention. Even the example of the objectionable avatar thread - which was closed - was pretty much being self-policed, with only a few people either being overly sensitive or merely taking it seriously (I was laughing and rolling my eyes all the way through it). Now some of you guys are suggesting "rules" when none were needed before. Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

I completely agree. The last thing we need is heavy handed censorship here. Frankly if <insert number here> would just calm down, most of the problems would go away. Most of the over-the-top comments here don't get out of hand and drag on like the GREAT DEEP CONTROVERSY, you know?

I would suggest that what we really need to watch out for is running off new members. (Although frankly, if they head for the political forum, I say they're fair game! ). Of course, there's nothing we can do about Chuck on the Offering & Looking For Forum, but that's a special case, and damn it, part of the charm of the place!

[catesta]

Agree, I still don't see major flaws with the way the board operates.

However, if on top of a little cash, Jim needs help from a couple of hard pipe hittin' moderators, help is what he should get.

[papsrus]

Gee, can we start calling you guys "Gorts" as well now?

Seriously, I think some of you are way overthinking his. You act like the board is broken and needs some repairs done to it; what it needs is funding, some admin oversight, and occassionally some light moderation. I've been here from the start and can only think of a handful of threads and/or posters that needed attention. Even the example of the objectionable avatar thread - which was closed - was pretty much being self-policed, with only a few people either being overly sensitive or merely taking it seriously (I was laughing and rolling my eyes all the way through it). Now some of you guys are suggesting "rules" when none were needed before. Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

I completely agree. The last thing we need is heavy handed censorship here. Frankly if <insert number here> would just calm down, most of the problems would go away. Most of the over-the-top comments here don't get out of hand and drag on like the GREAT DEEP CONTROVERSY, you know?

I would suggest that what we really need to watch out for is running off new members. (Although frankly, if they head for the political forum, I say they're fair game! ). Of course, there's nothing we can do about Chuck on the Offering & Looking For Forum, but that's a special case, and damn it, part of the charm of the place!

Yes, I suppose you're both right. This forum rule seems to give sufficient leeway for managing things:

Q: What are the rules for posting here?

A: Organissimo forums fully support free speech although the definition of that speech is defined by the owners and operators of this board. We really have one simple rule concerning what you can and cannot say. Anything deemed as a direct threat towards another member of this board will be deleted. We also will not tolerate links to offensive material. The definition of offensive is to be determined by the board owners. This includes all posts and signatures and avatars. Flame wars will not be tolerated! We rarely ever delete threads, but we do have the power to close them so that no new posts can be added. If a thread degrades to the point that we deem it necessary, we will close it.

I'm sure if moderators are assigned they can work it all out in that context.

[Tom Storer]

Personally, I'm surprised that there seems to be a consensus that the Organissimo forum has become such a terrible, uncivil place that it requires moderation as a matter of urgency. I've never seen a long-lasting message board that does not descend into bickering and flame wars from time to time. I've been living the message board life for years and years, and Organissimo is among the best behaved I've ever seen, including right now.

Some random thoughts: it is true that moderators need to have rules they can point to, or else it is 100% certain that they will be accused of favoritism, arbitrariness, and tyrannical censorship. Even with rules in place, however, they will be accused of enforcing them for some people and not with others (since 100% consistency is impossible), and the rules themselves will be the object of regular criticism from people who want them to be more general, more specific, include this one but not that one, etc. Also, moderation takes a lot of time and is a commitment for every day of the week, which is a lot. Volunteer moderators typically start with enthusiasm and good will and are quickly burned out.

My two ideas to throw into the pot are these suggestions of the most effective way to stop flaming and rudeness:

1. On the part of the board administration: throw out or suspend the worst offenders if clear and public warnings go unheeded. Usually when the general atmosphere of a board is felt to be worsening considerably, there's an unhealthy synergy going on among a few people who can't control their animosity to each other. Nip that in the bud and flaming will decrease to livable levels... for a while. It will always start up again eventually.

2. On the part of posters: DON'T FEED THE FLAMES. Use the Ignore function. And when you no longer believe that good faith debate with someone is happening, simply stop--let the other party have the last word and move on to another thread. It's the only sure way to stop a fight on a message board, but one that is surprisingly hard for many to do.

[brownie]

Mr. Kart makes perfect sense to me.

If there was to be more than one, I do believe somebody from the other side should be included (brownie, MG,...).

The other side of what?

Come to the light, Brownie & MG!!!

Count me out!

I'm obviously the only one of the O. regular posters who greeted Jim A.'s announcement of a couple of days ago with less than shock.

It happens that I had given thought for quite some time to distance myself from the forum. For various reasons but mainly because posting here is really taking too much time away from my other interests in life. This has to be taken as a compliment to the numerous qualities of the Board.

So by coincidence I was thinking of continuing here until the end of this year and then sort of disappear when Jim A. announced that he was giving up. This really meant the end for my association.

Glad to see that the decision has been overcome but let's face it, I won't be part of next year's activities. I'll probably be lurking in from time to time ande enjoy the posts from a distance.

I have lots of plans (personal, family, plus various passions) for the year 2008 and the following years and aim to concentrate on those.

The friends I have made here know where to reach me. Getting to know them (I'm thinking specially of Ubu, couw, EKE, Dmitry, Bertrand and so many others) has been the best reward of joining the Board and a tremendous privilege! I will be in touch with them when time comes.

[Daniel A]

Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

I really hope everybody won't proceed as they've always been doing. Some things have been going in the wrong direction for some time - negativity, mudslinging etc. - and I know I'm not alone in thinking that this place is not quite as healthy as a few years ago. Since self-moderation tends to get weaker when you think you "know" your fellow forum members, the results are not always very civilized, and ultimately not for the best if you want to have a friendly atmosphere which will welcome new members.

Edit for spelling.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Daniel A

[brownie]

Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

I really hope everybody won't proceed as they've always been doing. Some things have been going in the wrong direction for some time - negatativity, mudslinging etc. - and I know I'm not alone in thinking that this place is not quite as healthy as a few years ago. Since self-moderation tends to get weaker when you think you "know" your fellow forum members, the results are not always very civilized, and ultimately not for the best if you want to have a friendly atmosphere which will welcome new members.

Daniel, I totally agree with your post!

[neveronfriday]

Mr. Kart makes perfect sense to me.

If there was to be more than one, I do believe somebody from the other side should be included (brownie, MG,...).

The other side of what?

Come to the light, Brownie & MG!!!

Count me out!

[...] but let's face it, I won't be part of next year's activities. I'll probably be lurking in from time to time ande enjoy the posts from a distance.

I have lots of plans (personal, family, plus various passions) for the year 2008 and the following years and aim to concentrate on those. [...]

Now, that is a real pity ... but perfectly understandable.

I'm already now planning a trip to Paris for next year and if you are around, perhaps we could sample some fine wines somewhere. That would be grand.

In my eyes, you've always been the most level-headed and all around positive regular around here and I don't think I'm the only one who would say that. Also, many of your posts pointed me towards and turned me on to more music I like and I will sorely miss your contributions.

Volkher

P.S.: ... and thanks for completing my JiP collection with that sampler which surprisingly showed up on my doorstep one day. It was a very nice gesture and was and is still appreciated very much. I know I'm still missing an item or two, but what I wanted I now have and both gloat over it and listen to it constantly. Thanks again, also for all the other help and information over these past years!

[neveronfriday]

Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

I really hope everybody won't proceed as they've always been doing. Some things have been going in the wrong direction for some time - negatativity, mudslinging etc. - and I know I'm not alone in thinking that this place is not quite as healthy as a few years ago. Since self-moderation tends to get weaker when you think you "know" your fellow forum members, the results are not always very civilized, and ultimately not for the best if you want to have a friendly atmosphere which will welcome new members.

I totally agree with that and would add that the slowing down of this board (not technically, but post-and content-wise) and the absence of some former regulars or the disappearence of others into the "off" of this board is also directly related to these issues. I think they need to be addressed at some point.

[AllenLowe]

the insult question is complicated - I've long maintained that one tends to think attacks on people you dislike are ok, but attacks on your friends are inappropriate - so it's hard to remain impartial.

On the other hand I rarely if ever see anything here that truly offends me on the level of personal attack - though the name calling thing is important, and I resolve to count to 10 before I respond to what I perceive of as an insult - also, I do NOT like the ignore function, and will not use it; geez, I wanna know all the bad things people are saying about me (thought I didn't see all those posts making fun of my club foot and lazy eye, did you, Berigan? And no matter what you say, that other thing has cleared up; it's just not apparent with my pants on) -

this might be a good time to invoke the biblical injunction to turn the other cheek - I've tried (with maybe 50-50 success) and I know that there has been positive change with some other posters here (won't mention any names, as THAT may be perceived as an indirect attack) -

but as Rodney King said: "Just don't get outta the car."

and as part of my 12 step reform program, I want to apologize to Jazzmoose for taking things a little too far recently- I need to be less sensitive, and in my old age I'm prone to over-reacting to things that to me (and only to me) say "you are becoming old and irrelevant" - baggage that no none else needs to bear besides myself -

Edited December 6, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Daniel A]

In my eyes, you've always been the most level-headed and all around positive regular around here and I don't think I'm the only one who would say that. Also, many of your posts pointed me towards and turned me on to more music I like and I will sorely miss your contributions.

I agree with every word!

[catesta]

In my eyes, you've always been the most level-headed and all around positive regular around here and I don't think I'm the only one who would say that. Also, many of your posts pointed me towards and turned me on to more music I like and I will sorely miss your contributions.

I agree with every word!

Yep, brownie you will be missed.

[king ubu]

I agree with the above statement of Daniel's, too - the changing general "mood" of the place has led me to post less and care less... I still browse here all of the time, and there are threads where I regularly post (like the film corner), but in general I've kind of distanced myself a bit... possibly that started way back with the whole che thing... so again it boils down to a personal thing were feelings were hurt and it took way too long for any kind of reaction from "the crowd" here (with noted exceptions, of course, no denying that!).

As for brownie: you know how much I owe you and how much I enjoyed my trip in October - I will certainly not be out of touch even if you'd leave the board for good!

[catesta]

I agree with the above statement of Daniel's, too - the changing general "mood" of the place has led me to post less and care less... I still browse here all of the time, and there are threads where I regularly post (like the film corner), but in general I've kind of distanced myself a bit... possibly that started way back with the whole che thing... so again it boils down to a personal thing were feelings were hurt and it took way too long for any kind of reaction from "the crowd" here (with noted exceptions, of course, no denying that!).

As for brownie: you know how much I owe you and how much I enjoyed my trip in October - I will certainly not be out of touch even if you'd leave the board for good!

Yeah, "things aint' what they used to be", no question. Maybe it's natural progression, I don't know, but I do know some great regular posters at one time or another have had problems. I've stayed because, hands down this place imo was still way better than any alternative out there for an idiot like me.

I'm hoping 2008 is a "return to glory" and we all can laugh once again.

I am prepared to blame couw for everything bad that happens here in the future and pat myself on the back for all that is good. How is that?

[porcy62]

Gee, can we start calling you guys "Gorts" as well now?

Seriously, I think some of you are way overthinking his. You act like the board is broken and needs some repairs done to it; what it needs is funding, some admin oversight, and occassionally some light moderation. I've been here from the start and can only think of a handful of threads and/or posters that needed attention. Even the example of the objectionable avatar thread - which was closed - was pretty much being self-policed, with only a few people either being overly sensitive or merely taking it seriously (I was laughing and rolling my eyes all the way through it). Now some of you guys are suggesting "rules" when none were needed before. Why don't we simply proceed as we've always been doing and (as Larry and Chuck suggest) deal with any problems when and if they arise.

Yep, this is not a Middle East crisis, we don't need any Henry Kissinger-likes over here.

[brownie]

I'm already now planning a trip to Paris for next year and if you are around, perhaps we could sample some fine wines somewhere. That would be grand.

Volkher, you'll be more than welcome.

There are still plenty of good wines to taste.

And hopefully more Jazz in Paris releases by then!

Edited December 6, 2007 by brownie

[Jim Alfredson]

The plan right now is to recruit two or three people to help moderate the whole board. I am going to take my time thinking about who they should be. I am also taking the concerns of members like brownie, king ubu, Daniel A, and neveronfriday seriously. I think they are valid concerns. I don't necessarily know what the answer is or whether there is an answer that will appease everybody.

Now that the financial burden is lifted, I am going to take my time figuring out a fair way to address these concerns. I do not think the board is "sick", but I do recognize a problematic undercurrent.

[porcy62]

I'm already now planning a trip to Paris for next year and if you are around, perhaps we could sample some fine wines somewhere. That would be grand.

Volker, you'll be more than welcome.

There are still plenty of good wines to taste.

And hopefully more Jazz in Paris releases by then!

Damn, I envy these Parisiennes, where did you get your classy charme?

Bordeax, Cotes du Rhone?

[brownie]

I'm already now planning a trip to Paris for next year and if you are around, perhaps we could sample some fine wines somewhere. That would be grand.

Volkher, you'll be more than welcome.

There are still plenty of good wines to taste.

And hopefully more Jazz in Paris releases by then!

Damn, I envy these Parisiennes, where did you get your classy charme?

Bordeax, Cotes du Rhone?

Bordeaux, it has to be. I have no choice.

I married a girl from Bordeaux. Our son is finishing his medical studies in Bordeaux and plans to settle there!

:P

[king ubu]

I'm already now planning a trip to Paris for next year and if you are around, perhaps we could sample some fine wines somewhere. That would be grand.

Volkher, you'll be more than welcome.

There are still plenty of good wines to taste.

And hopefully more Jazz in Paris releases by then!

I thought they officially announced the end of the series? (Or are you just talking of good offers of previous releases that you'll pick up for Volkher?)

The plan right now is to recruit two or three people to help moderate the whole board. I am going to take my time thinking about who they should be. I am also taking the concerns of members like brownie, king ubu, Daniel A, and neveronfriday seriously. I think they are valid concerns. I don't necessarily know what the answer is or whether there is an answer that will appease everybody.

Now that the financial burden is lifted, I am going to take my time figuring out a fair way to address these concerns. I do not think the board is "sick", but I do recognize a problematic undercurrent.

Thanks Jim, that sounds very reasonable. I don't expect an answer that solves any question, for sure - and I sure can live with the board as it is right now. No way I blame you for what the members here do and don't! Anyway, I appreciate what you're doing for us a whole lot, that's for sure!