Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I have some, but not much, Mel Torme in my collection. I have recently listened to what I have, and want to hear more. I would appreciate recommendations on where to start with Mel Torme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Lots of anti-Torme sentiment on this board, so watch out! Try Swings Shubert Alley, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Lots of anti-Torme sentiment on this board, so watch out! Try Swings Shubert Alley, though. I didn't know about the anti-Torme sentiment. I have never felt much of a desire to listen to him, myself, and was recently surprised that I liked some of his 1940s recordings. I have heard great jazzmen speak of him with respect, for what that is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Lots of anti-Torme sentiment on this board, so watch out! Try Swings Shubert Alley, though. I'll second all of that... I dunno, though, from a historical/technical standpoint, I like what I've heard of the Mel-Tones, even if the Torme-icity of it al is pungentacious. I'm interested in ("fan of" would be going too far...) the whole vocal group thing, and those guys seem to have preceeded groups like the Hi-Los by a fair bit in thier use of "real" "jazz" harmonies/voicings. My rule of thumb for Torme, though, anti-fan that I am, is that the further back in time you go, the less Tormealicious it gets, and for me, that's a good thing. So anything from, say 1960-ish or earlier is probably gonna be ok w/o too much "stipulation". Would like to hear more about the Mel-Tones at some point though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I have heard great jazzmen speak of him with respect, for what that is worth. Well, yeah - great pitch, impeccable time, all that. No denying it, the guy had chops out the ass. Myself (who is in no way a great jazzman), I just get put off by the corny "hip" attitude, which comes into the music far too often for my comfort. But skills? Hell yeah, the guy was loaded with 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 The 4-CD 'Mel Torme Collection' on Rhino is an excellent starting point. It's OOP but copies turn up regularly on eBay etc. In fact there's one on there now for $34 plus shipping. Mel Torme Collection on eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 The 4-CD 'Mel Torme Collection' on Rhino is an excellent starting point. It's OOP but copies turn up regularly on eBay etc. In fact there's one on there now for $34 plus shipping. Mel Torme Collection on eBay Thanks, that looks like a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Not much anti-Torme sentiment from me... favourites: the two albums with Marty Paich Dek-Tette for Bethlehem (Lulu's Back in Town, Sings Fred Astaire), the mentioned Swings Shubert Alley, and also the cheesy south of the border album "Olé Torme"... I'm a sucker for that stuff! The rest of the Bethlehem material isn't bad either... two albums from the same live gig at the Crescendo, plus a crooner album, plus the ambitious California Suite. The Paich albums are the best, though... some great solos from the band on the Lulu album, too (and what a cool song that is, anyway!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Not much anti-Torme sentiment from me... favourites: the two albums with Marty Paich Dek-Tette for Bethlehem (Lulu's Back in Town, Sings Fred Astaire), the mentioned Swings Shubert Alley, and also the cheesy south of the border album "Olé Torme"... I'm a sucker for that stuff! The rest of the Bethlehem material isn't bad either... two albums from the same live gig at the Crescendo, plus a crooner album, plus the ambitious California Suite. The Paich albums are the best, though... some great solos from the band on the Lulu album, too (and what a cool song that is, anyway!) Thanks! I have liked Marty Paich's charts on other projects. I will check this one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Though I've never been into jazz (or jazzy) vocals that much I admit I was knocked out by the Mel-Tones 40s recordings that I got hold of the other day on a 80s Musicraft reissue LP. So I'll second the recommendation of starting with the beginning - the 40s Mel-Tones recordings. And though I've passed it up repeatedly in the past, I'll probably grab those reecordings with Marty Paich's Dek-Tette on Bethlehem one of these days as well (as soon as a nicely priced Affinity reissue comes my way). As for that affected hipness that JSangry spoke off, I can see your point, yet I think you have to keep in mind where featured white male vocalists in jazz came from in the 40s. If you look at those typical big band vocalists of the pre-1942/43 recording ban big bands that very often sounded oh so square jazz-wise (and badly dated today), isn't it so that the white vocalists didn't really see the light until the hip 40s era rolled along? Cf. Buddy Stewart, Dave Lambert, the Pastels, David Allyn and lots of others. I admit I never really went for the sound of the crooners but for my money I somehow like Mel's chops better than those of Frankieboy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 "Swingin' on the Moon" - Verve Songs about the moon, space, and stars, with a babe wearing a bubble helmet on the cover. What more could you want from a record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 "Swingin' on the Moon" - Verve Songs about the moon, space, and stars, with a babe wearing a bubble helmet on the cover. What more could you want from a record? Oh, I knew I forgot one favourite... there it is! Great one! (Again arranged by Paich, I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 As for that affected hipness that JSangry spoke off, I can see your point, yet I think you have to keep in mind where featured white male vocalists in jazz came from in the 40s. If you look at those typical big band vocalists of the pre-1942/43 recording ban big bands that very often sounded oh so square jazz-wise (and badly dated today), isn't it so that the white vocalists didn't really see the light until the hip 40s era rolled along? Cf. Buddy Stewart, Dave Lambert, the Pastels, David Allyn and lots of others. Fair enough, and objectively, yeah. But... Don't want to be a killjoy, so hey - the guy had incredible chops and frequently surrounded himself with top-shelf talent. Beyond that, it's all "personal". I will say this though - the Capitol(?) sides he made in the late-60s, where he did "jazzy" versions of then-current Top 40 hits, are actually kinda fun for me, kitsch fator aside (I mean, he does that Georgie Fame Bonnie & Clyde song & instead of real gunfire in the middle, somebody got the bright iea of using what for all the world sounds like the sound of a rotary phone dial spinning!). There's obviously some thorns in his rose-colored glasses, and they're obviously interfering with his vision through same, and it's not at all an unpleasant thing to listen to, contrasting as it does to his usual shooby-dooby-doo-ness World Of Perpetual Hipness. By all accounts, the guy was quite often a real bastard in real life. I wouldn't have minded hearing some more of that in his music, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I had a couple of Torme LPs in the early sixties, which went when I needed money. But both were OK. One was "Songs for any taste", a live one on Bethlehem. Some of the tracks I still remember as killers - "I wish I were in love again" for instance - one NEVER hears anyone doing that song, which has some of the wittiest words in the GAS. But other tracks - "Autumn leaves" for example, in which he sings deliberately out of tune and in French with snide remarks is clearly one of the self-consciously hip efforts people rightly decry. The other one I had was "Sunday in New York" on Atlantic, which was a very pleasant, very professional, set of songs about NY. No high moments like the Bethlehem, but again some good songs you don't often hear sung. I do think that singers who can pick good, rarely heard, songs are valuable for that, irrespective of any other of their qualities, or lack thereof. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 anything with shearing. there was an affinity. how can one possibly pan their performances of 'berkeley square'? however, i hated to see torme as a public broadcasting host. if i saw a show with torme hosting i generally turned it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I picked up Torme's autobiography, "It Wasn't All Velvet", on the $1 table at a bookstore. Few have ever suffered so much, and been treated so unfairly, as Mel, according to Mel. His extended rant in this book, about the unsatisfactory nature of the U.S. civil court process, should be required reading for anyone thinking that they would like to get involved in a lawsuit. So I did not like him very much after reading the book. And what was that selling his soul to Mountain Dew late in life all about? Some of his recordings could still sound good, though. I appreciate the recommendations in this thread. They saved me from spending too much money on hit and miss experiements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 And what was that selling his soul to Mountain Dew late in life all about? I totally missed that... Details please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 And what was that selling his soul to Mountain Dew late in life all about? I totally missed that... Details please! After his burst of fame from "Night Court", and before he became ill, he was featured in some Mountain Dew TV commercials, with young skateboarding dudes. The point of the commercials was that the skateboarders, who were meant to be rugged, "cool" young guys, were highly impressed with white haired Mel because he drank Mountain Dew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Wow, I did miss that. Musta been a hoot! Did he sing "Mountain Dew-ery"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Wow, I did miss that. Musta been a hoot! Did he sing "Mountain Dew-ery"? Mel didn't sing in it. I can't remember if he said one line, or none at all. I seem to recall that Mel wore a black leather jacket, and looked into the camera as if he was a cool dude. There was grunge-type music in the background as I remember it. At the very end, one of the rough looking skateboarders said something like "Mel!" (in a voice in which one would expect a skateboarder to say du-u-u-u-de, as Mel drank the Mountain Dew). Does anyone have a stronger memory of Mel Torme's Mountain Dew commercials? I just looked on youtube, but they do not have any of them on file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hey, I bet it was good bucks. More power to him for that! I always used to get a little "record collector's tingle" when Harry Anderson would produce some long OOP Verve side on an episode of Night Court. This was back beofore the reissue boom, and even if it was Mel, it was Verve & it was vinyl, so hey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Hey, I bet it was good bucks. More power to him for that! I always used to get a little "record collector's tingle" when Harry Anderson would produce some long OOP Verve side on an episode of Night Court. This was back beofore the reissue boom, and even if it was Mel, it was Verve & it was vinyl, so hey! I try not to hold a great talent's personality against him. I might not own a lot of music if I did! I've always really liked Mel's voice. He took good care of it throughout his life. Some records that haven't been mentioned: "Live at the Maisonnette" on Atlantic and a bunch of records for Concord including "Velvet and Brass" with Rob McConnell, and "Reunion" with Marty Paich. I'm less fond of the Shearing collaborations than of other material he did for the label, but those are still fine. I also like "Torme" a record originally recorded for Gryphon, if memory serves, with some nice work from Phil Woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 check the bethlehem material. especially 'sings fred ataire' and 'california suite" which is, to my mind, a great concept recording. swinging as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Weird that he would complain about the Mountain Dew commercials while cashing the checks... My uncle and great uncle had similar stories to tell about Mel. As legend would have it, our family is related to his. On separate occasions, both my uncle (who was a Hollywood player) and my great uncle (who was not) were at Los Angeles functions that Torme also attended. And each of them had a story to the effect that their query to Torme about the family relation was totally rebuffed. And these were colleagues, mind, not just gushing fans... I wouldn't give a s**t either way if I thought he was a great singer/musician. But try as I might to appreciate what all the undeniable technique adds up to, his unmitigated smarminess turns me all the way off. He swung like an MF, had technique up the wazoo, yet still repels, to my ears... Was it bad faith? I must add, that my mom, more closely related to the relatives mentioned above, kinda digs him, so "different strokes..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 He swung like an MF, had technique up the wazoo, yet still repels, to my ears... Come to think of it, also a well-nigh perfect summation of my feelings about George Shearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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