Blindfold test #2 Discussion

[Jim R]

Now I know why that tune on #9 sounded so familiar. I don't have it on CD, but I recently bought the DVD of "The Legend of Teddy Edwards". I see he recorded it for Prestige in the 60's- it sure has a "classic" air about it, but I don't know of any other versions by other artists.

#5 is revealing to me that I need to listen more closely (completely overlooked the alto ). Like I said earlier, though, at times the distinction between a tenor and an alto can be tricky (for me, at least).

I have this weird feeling about a few of my guesses for a few of the mystery tenors. I feel like some of the guesses I made for the tenors on #'s 5, 6 and 8 could turn out to be correct, but I'm sort of confused now as to how I came up with the names. It's almost as if a small group of cells in my brain had the answers, but the rest of me had no real clue (or at least any confidence)! Strange feeling...

Reading through this thread again has helped me to focus more on what I need to pay more attention to. Jim's comments about the alto player on #7 make a lot of sense to me, but I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. I'm a little relieved that even saxophone guru Sangrey didn't recognize the tenors on 10 and 13 (although he sure tore up most of the test). I gotta take my hat off to Dan for coming up with such a tough list. It really makes it fun, and with all the knowledgeable ears around here, I don't think it's that easy to pull off.

I had been thinking of doing an "easier" test for next time, but upon reflection I think I'll go ahead and go with a mixture of well-known and obscure stuff that I dig and want to share.

[Tom Storer]

I could well be wrong on all my guesses saxophone-wise, but that's Joe Williams on #2. When you know a singer it's virtually impossible to *not* recognize the voice. That's why a blindfold test with a singers theme wouldn't be that much fun--either you know them or you don't.

[Dan Gould]

Well, considering how items are getting checked off, one after the other, maybe its time to reveal while there are still a few mysteries left?

[couw]

Too many things have been going wrong both at work and with my newly bought home computer (which I had to bring in for repair this morning) for me to care any longer and I'm just gonna play this disk right now at work and ain't nobody gonna tell me not to. I have been looking forward to spinning this disk and to write some words down about my impressions ever since it arrived AND I have been craving to read the reactions/guesses of all the others especially as I watched the number of posts grow each day. So here, finally, now at last, goes.

Track 1: simplistic as I am, I'm gonna go with Gene Harris and/or the Three Sounds. This may of course be a trick of Dan, but then again I guess he's sly enough to have us think that and go for the double tricketytrick. Nice song with a nice gospel vibe. Nothing I would go out of my way to acquire, but good to have it around at times. The tune sounds familiar but I cannot place it. My memory for tunes is terrible.

Track 2: great fun. No idea really who this is. Might be Joe Williams whom I don't really know. Intruiging to listen to him get the audience to participate in an almost corny way, without loosing the sincerity of his performance. Because in spite of all the FUN, there is some real, bad-ass, blues being played.

Track 3: first reaction is that this is Lou Donaldson. Maybe one of the other obscure vinyl treasures Dan has already given us a taste of (it is a vinyl dub). The vamp screams "Stand by me," nothing else supports that though. If it were Donaldson, I would have expected an organ instead of a piano. If it is not Donaldson (I am not sure, the alto sounds a bit thinner than what I'm used to in Donaldson's playing), it may be one of those 'jump'-altoists like Tab Smith or Earl Bostic or King Curtis. Although the first two have more sharp edges and I am not that familiar with Curtis. Very nice straight ahead going by all involved. I like this, it's good for dances, it's good for doing the dishes, it's just good.

Track 4: Water Melon Man. Great tenor playing! This sounds very recognisable, but I don't know who it is. Great tone, beautiful on the lower notes, and nice flurries up there. I don't believe I own anything by this player. Definitely worth checking out. Enlighten me! As for the rhythm section, I guess they're okay, nothing extraordinary here. The bass player strikes me as the stability factor, but I don't know why.

Track 5: Very familiar tune. This strikes me as played by a troupe of Basie players, the piano has similar small interjections as Basie would have, though not as percussive. The bass is wonderfully straight and might be Vinnegar. Incredible how the bass just goes up and down and up and down and you don't get bored by that. Truly great straight playing, very very cool. My own Basie comment leads me to propose Foster or Wess for the first tenor, probably Wess. The alto is a mystery to me, but his playing is great. The entry of the second tenor I like. Heavily influenced by Prez, but plays his own. Very nice how he bounces his ideas around. Great players all. I'm very curious.

Track 6: Another familiar tune. What is it? One of those tenor players I cannot put a name on because their tone is too middle of the road and I'm not good at the phrasing thing. So this might be anyone as far as I'm concerned. Trombones I am not good at at all. But this is too brassy for Johnson and not deep enough for Fuller and there it stops. No sparks here and that's a pity because it sounds as if there might have been some.

Track 7: a Charlie Parker tune (Billy's Bounce?). Trumpet sounds like McGhee or Mitchell or Hardman or... (okay, I don't know who it is). Alto has a strange bite in his tone at times, something almost nasal. Nothing I don't like, very nice solo actually and I'm curious who this is. That pianost sure knows how to get from one end of the ivory to the other! Nice dramatic stuff that nevertheless fits perfectly with the rest of the playing.

Track 8: kappow, organ! Flamingo. The tenor sounds as if he's pushing the notes out instead of blowing them. Is it Houston Person ? (insert very many more question marks here), I think to remember I had a similar sensation listening to that one lone CD of him I own (how's that for stating I don't know?). The guitar I like, very soulful and sincere, almost sad. Is it Grant Green? Or something heavily influenced by him.

Track 9: This sounds very nice. I could do with a bit more action from the tenor, it's all a bit lame because he stays so close to the theme (or is this a v-e-r-y - l-o-n-g theme? His TONE is something else though, VERY beautiful, with a lot of spit flying around inside the horn. I haven't got a clue who's playing and I am curious. Especially once he hits the "solo" section, where he shows there's more. On second listen (it must have impressed me because I retracked right after it finished) the lameness has worn of a bit and the nuances come to the fore. Somehow it sounds like an old guy who's done great stuff and can't stop playing. Very nice.

Track 10: This is why I don't like modern day recordings: that incredibly crappy bass sound! The tenor is okay but sounds a bit too -- yeah what couw?! Too... too... ermm... Well, like the player on track 4, he's pushing the notes out (although to a lesser extent), but looses too much of the body of his tone in the process. The tone becomes very "strangled." Heck what do I know. The pianist is very "busy," quoting only have eyes for you and getting into this bluesy vibe. Bass is quoting sesame street (is this serious?) This is certainly not bad, but I need a lot more listening to this one to enjoy it and I don't have time for that with all these piles waiting to be listened to.

Track 11: I have heard this tune before. I'm not good at guessing other pianists than Monk . Is this Jason Moran? Bass sounds cool and the drumming is getting on my headphone-nerves with its tickety-tick sounding precisely somewhere inside the middle of my head where I don't want it to sound. I cannot judge this one by listening like this, sorry.

Track 12: heheheh, KlaBamm! Cool big band. No idea, but I bet the organist is the leader

Track 13: very nice mysterious build up. I like how the tenor drops out again immediately after stating the theme. That reminds me of Hill's Black Fire where the Henderson is playing only in a supportive role. Probably this unknown pianist is the leader of this date. The bass & drums are very stable, no bullshit, cut the crap, lay down that vibe. The pianist certainly has his blues chops and his gospel licks ready to deploy. So the tenor does come back. Nice tone, but not very distinctive (I'm a tone guy, I'm not good at the phrasing bit). Nothing not to like.

Thanks Dan, this was a real treat. A very nice disk just to throw in the player. I'll be playing it quite a bit.

[mikeweil]

Not bad John, at least not badder than all the others ...

Have a nice time reading on the train ride back home, I hope the ride lasts long enough!

[RDK]

Just another shout out of thanks to Dan for putting this disc together. It's already caused me to download a couple of things off of emusic by artists I was less-than-familiar with and there're a couple of other things that I just have to track down.

More importantly, based on some of the perceptive comments listed above, this has really gotten me to think more about listening to the tones and phrasings of different musicians. It really amazes me how Jim and a few of you others can so easily identify someone by their playing - I can only do that with a small handful of cats.

I'm eagerly awaiting hearing the answers. And participating in the next test... B)

Edited September 25, 2003 by RDK

[Dan Gould]

Since time's a wastin' and the mysteries left on the disc are gettin' fewer, I'll be posting the answers momentarily. But I do hope that the folks who have not yet posted their initial impressions will post here before checking the Answers and Further Discussion thread.

[Adam]

Are you going to do it as a separate thread, as with #1? I think that's a good idea.

[Dan Gould]

Yes, it will be on a separate thread and please be patient, it takes time to write up info and commentary on all 13 tracks!

[paul secor]

I'm real late with this. I had a cold/flu thing and just didn't have the energy to put into this (sounds like a school excuse, I know). Anyway, I've listened for a couple of days at work and driving back and forth to work, so here goes.

1 - Probably a Ray Charles tune, I don't know the title. Didn't blow me away. I think I'd rather hear Ray play it than whoever this is. This pianist has too much facility to sound comfortable playing this simple a tune. Dan is a Gene Harris fan - could it be he?

2. Jimmy Witherspoon? A hoarse Lou Rawls? I was a little put off by the audience participation thing. This kind of thing always sounds to me like an easy way to get the audience to do part of the performer's work. I always feel that if an artist is going to do this, he/she should refund part of the ticket price.

5. My favorite on the CD. No idea who it is - my first thought was Wilbur Ware with Griff and John Jenkins, but I don't think so. I'm too tired to put the record on and find out. Anyway, a very nice cut.

6. Maybe Curtis Fuller? Tommy Flanagan on piano? Another good cut.

7. My first thought was possibly Howard McGhee on trumpet. I wasn't blown away by anyone on this, except for the bass player. Whoever's on bass plays well and really carries the rhythm throughout the performance.

9. Very nice. No idea who it is, but the sax player plays with some true feeling. John Hicks came to mind for the piano.

12. Don't know if McDuff recorded with a big band. The band backing sounds kind of perfunctory to me. Pun not intended.

13. "Lonely Avenue" - begin with Ray, end with Ray. I enjoyed this a lot more than I expected. This is a good example of a jazz group playing an r&b tune and keeping the feeling while still doing something creative and not playing down to an audience. I enjoyed the saxophone player a great deal. A great tune and a fine performance.

I've only commented on the tunes that interested me. I was pretty much stumped on this blindfold test, and I'm sure I'll pick up a few titles from what I've heard here. Thanks Dan, and my apologies for not getting to this sooner. Next time I'll get to things earlier and participate in the give and take.

[mmilovan]

Although it came a bit late, I am trying to put some answers before looking at the results. At firs i would like to thank for the CD sent, and express my admiration for this idea of sharpening our musical skills.

Let's begin (in no particular order):

6. Sonny Stit and J. J. Johnson, playing some dameronia ("Lady Bird"?) I think it is Sonny; he has distinctive style on tenor as well as Johnson. Recorded round eighties.

2. Great Joe Williams, of course. It can be his working unit, think I found the same titles on double Verve's compilation. Williams' voice is a bit uncontrolled and harsh on edges. Recorded back in 1980's

3. Some boogaloo sessions, right? Jackie Mac??? No, the style is a bit flat, with no bop and post bop inflections. All of the notes on alto can be played by Louis Jordan as well.

4. Watermelon what? Those shaking notes remind me to Illinois Jacquet, but Arnet Cobb played the same manner. Still, I enjoyed this take. No, definitely too much notes for Jacquet. This is the way Cannonball used to play his horn.

5. Jimmy Jones or Hank Jones at the piano, emulating Basie ? Now, that is Texas tenor playing on first solo? The other can be some great musician with nice melodic sense. Sounds like Paul Quinichette, but it is not Paul himself.

8. This is some fine music played by musician inspired by late Stan Getz or people like him. It can be Art Pepper. The most beautiful track of the whole set.

Still, I want to figure what was the theme of the test.

Edited October 4, 2003 by mmilovan

[tkeith]

Late to the game. Thanks for the hookup for the test, Dan. No peaking (couldn't access the thread even after listening; again, thanks, Dan!), one listen.

track 01 - Just because I'm biased by the originator of this BFT, I'm thinking Gene Harris, but I have no idea what the recording is. Sounds like The Three Sounds to me.

track 02 - Drink Muddy Water, but not sure who the vocalist is. Both of these first two tunes are winners, though. Hints of Jimmy Jones in the piano, but I don't think it's him. Someone close, though. Sounds like a very unhip audience to me.

track 03 - A little reminiscent of Ben E. King (or, I'm guessing, vice versa). Maybe Lou Donaldson? I'm a little luke warm on this one.

track 04 - Watermelon Man. Got one of those beastly bluesy sounds. Maybe Red Holloway?

track 05 - No idea. Didn't sway me in any particular direction, but didn't bother me, either.

track 06 - The sound of this makes me think late 70s; cleaner than Muse, but that era. Some similarity to Rouse, but it's not him. Maybe Moody? Rushes the tempo a bit like Jimmy Heath. Not sure on the 'bone. Not Curtis or J.J., but out of that school. The rhythm of the piano player has me thinking someone out of that classic bop school. Not Barry Harris or Tommy Flanagan, but maybe the tier below that.

track 07 - Billie's Bounce. Well, I had it all wrong, but the personnel at the end set me straight. Would not have guessed Carmell Jones. No guesses on the others and couldn't hear, so I'll find out when I look later.

track 08 - Friggin' track name is escaping me, but of course I recognize it. Can't grab the damned lyrics. Don't recognize the alto; assume it's more of a blues guy than a Jazz guy. Wow. Would not have guessed Grant Green, either.

track 09 - I'm thinking I know this tenor player, but it's not ringing in for me. It almost sounds like Bunky Green playing tenor. I suspect it's a similar player in terms of notoriety, but lack any intelligent guesses. Very nice ballad, though. No guesses on the sidemen, which is disappointing. (I should qualify that with the fact that I'm listening at work)

track 10 - That sounds very much like Gene Harris to me. This has a feel that reminds me of Milt Jackson's Kosei Nenkin set. I don't think it's Cedar Walton, though. More modern horn player. A Brecker contemporary? Maybe slightly before that, but similarly schooled. Electric bass? Or just an odd sound? Honestly struggling to tell if it's an alto or a tenor, but leaning tenor, but one of those strange mid-ground sounds. An 80s version of that "recordable" sound of the modern players.

track 11 - Footprints with a needlessly modified melody (not a fan of that). Trio works well together. I'm not picking up on who they are, but I'm assuming this is a recent (oughts) recording. Maybe somebody like Avishai Cohen or Vijay Iyer, but more mainstream. It works, though.

track 12 - Sounds like Maynard on the high end. I'll guess one of his later bands.

track 13 - Somebody heavily out of the Joe Henderson school. Hearing some George Coleman influence, too. Earlier guy than Jeff Coffin, Gary Thomas, but sounds like that level of guy. In fact, Thomas is not a bad guess.

[tkeith]

Thanks to Jim Alfredson for fixing the issue with accessing this thread.

[Dan Gould]

After Thom asked for a copy of my last BFT, I offered to recreate the ones he missed, way back when. So if anyone's curiosity is piqued, shoot me a PM and I'll share the link to this blast from the past.

And thanks Thom, you did a pretty nice job on this one!