Blindfold test #2 Discussion

[Jim R]

6. Nice Tenor/Bone-head...

Geez, Jim- isn't that a little harsh? I mean, if you didn't care for the tenor player, you could just explain why...

Sorry... just could not resist.

[Dan Gould]

Jim R., folks! He'll be here all week!!

[Dan Gould]

Hasn't anyone else gotten this and is ready to post their impressions? It seems like there've been way too many broken discs or super slow delivery. Thanks USPS!

[kenny weir]

Hey Dan - I'm here! The first southern hemisphere blindfold test report!!!!!!!

I'm writing this before checking out earlier posts on this thread.

First off. thanks to Dan for making this happen - and posting me mine before everyone else so I can participate.

My notes will be brief - I loved all this stuff, but I'm all at sea when it comes to the guessing game.

I thought I knew this kind of music quite well - but it turns out I'm only scratching the surface. And that's a good thing for sure.

Time and again I resorted to the same ill-informed guesses, especially concerning the saxophonists.

And with the pianists, I kept on going back to limited options _ Gene Harris, Gene Harris and Gene Harris (funny, that).

I think I could work a few of these out by going back to my own collection - but it would take time.

I loved the bluesy, greasy feeling of the tracks. And there's a lot of church in there, too.

And I always love cover versions of pop/R&B/whatever stuff - a different sort of meaning for the word "standards".

1. OK, so I cheated and peeked when this threadstarted and caught one poster's declaration on this. Ramsey Lewis? I'm a bit surprised. I have quite a bit of his stuff, but despite the heavy blues and gospel feels in his playing, I usually think of him as a bit lighter than this. But now I can hear the rhythm section grooving it makes more sense.

2. A boogie thing played by someone who I suspect has a much broader background. Gene Harris?

3. The bass line and arrangement almost gives it away. A bit further into the song I got it (I think). Jr Walker. Or maybe King Curtis?

4. Stumped again - the same names come to mind. King Curtis, Willis Jackson, Rusty Bryant. This sounds like it could be those NY R&B cats - Cornell Dupree, Bernard Purdie and Co -doing the backing.

5. Sonny Stitt, Eddie Harris, Rusty Bryant?

6. The sax and 'bone don't ring any bells. Sounds like this could be a west coast slant on a an east coast trip. Actually, I do know this sax player - but I can't name him.

7. No idea.

8. If this is one of those Groove Holmes/HankCrawford albums, it's not one I own. And I have a few.

9. No idea.

10. See No.5.

11. Great intro, slinky bass. I'd guess this will come from the past couple of decades, in which case I'm even more at sea. Danilo Perez?

12. The Hammond-and-big-band thing - should be a whole lot more of it. But then again, the only thing I really havealong these lines is the Jimmy Smith Verve stuff. I'm guessing Groove Holmes.

13. Lowdown and dirty. Really brooding. See No.5.

Really, this was all wonderful.

And now I'm gonna see how much I can get for this rare, highly prized sucker on EBay.

[mikeweil]

Really, this was all wonderful.

And now I'm gonna see how much I can get for this rare, highly prized sucker on EBay.

[mikeweil]

However, I'm still inclined to think it's Joe Williams.  He does sound a little raspy, and it could be somebody else, but I'll say it's Joe late in his career (with a cold  ).

I considered Joe Williams with a cold, too ...

If that's not Joe Williams, I'll eat my hat (provided, that is, that my hat's made out of two slices of bread and some cheese...)

Reminds me of betting my left little finger on the drummer on track # 5!

Very interesting discussion of a great test!

I'm totally certain there is no Eddie Harris nowhere on this disc, BTW. The guess of a Benny Golson/Curtis Fuller reunion for # 6 seems plausible.

And after a little research, I may have solved the riddle of the Watermelon Man - if you don't wanna know or haven't posted yet, stay away from this link

Edited September 18, 2003 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

And could this rare bird be the solution for track # 8? Again, if you don't wanna know, stay away, others are welcome to discuss this.

[Peter Johnson]

This is completely entertaning. I'm beginning to think I MAY have gotten one right. Damn! I thought I knew more than that!

Keep the links and suspicions coming!

[White Lightning]

I'm still waiting for my copy. I can't wait to listen to Dan's compilation...

[pryan]

And could this rare bird be the solution for track # 8? Again, if you don't wanna know, stay away, others are welcome to discuss this.

I think that's definitely a possibilty, considering Person's a pretty "soulful" tenorman, not unlike Stanley Turrentine. But is that Green on guitar (my guess is no) or Robert Lowe, the other guitarist listed on the AMG page? I think I'm going to have to listen to this one again.

[Brad]

I've just started to listen to this so I have only partial comments:

1. I liked the gospel feel of this. It makes you want to get up in the aisles and ask for deliverance (and I'm not even a religious person ). I really like gospel. You can see how this can sway you and this recording does. I thought Gene Harris but Dan's not that obvious. He'd want to make us think that.

2. Nice boogie woogie bluesy material. Could be Joe Williams but I didn't think the singer's voice was deep enough. Maybe he had a cold as somebody intimated.

3. This struck me as very r&b-ish and rather commercial, not jazz so much. I think's it's King Curtis. I had a Collectibles cd that I sold of his and I think this was on it. It's nice but doesn't really move me totally.

4. Nice rendition of Watermelon Man. No idea however. I thought maybe Lockjaw but I think it's #4. If I'm correct, I'd like to get this.

5. No idea. But really mellow relaxed blues material that just keeps building. Great piano work. The saxes really handle the material. Another must get.

6. My favorite so far. I can't just get enough Tad Dameron. He could really write. One of my favorite composers. The melodies are timeless. Don't know who did it, however. Another pickup however.

That's all so far.

[Jim R]

And could this rare bird be the solution for track # 8? Again, if you don't wanna know, stay away, others are welcome to discuss this.

Hmm! If that's the tenor player, I'll be a little surprised that I guess correctly. When I tossed out his name, it was basically just a reflex- I'm not all that familiar with his sound.

I've never heard of Lowe at all, but I think we would all agree that it's not Grant Green.

Also, I wouldn't have thought that Benny Golson is the tenor man on #6 (Dameron's writing reminded me a bit of Benny's before somebody pointed out it was Tadd's tune, which is the only reason I mentioned Benny). I am pretty familiar with Benny, although I'd have to admit that I have heard less of his later work, where his sound had changed. Hmmm... still a LOT of mysteries on this test!

[Jazzmoose]

Okay, here we go. Just for the sake of space, could everyone just assume the "i'm not sure"s, "I don't really know, but"s, and the "I'm probably embarrassing myself, but"s in the sentences below? And if I don't take a guess at the performers, just assume I have no clue, okay? Thanks!

And a word about my "ratings": I'm stingy as hell with the 4 and 5 stars; after all, I figure if I give a song a rating over four, I'd darn well better get it, and I'm cheap. So 3 or 3.5 ain't bad in my book, okay? On to the embarrassment...

Track One: 1.5 stars

This seemed to fall into the realm of "competent, but no surprises", and didn't really grab me. I didn't like the piano at all, but something tells me that it very well could have been the piano itself, or the recording, not the pianist. It just seemed muddy or something. The whole performance just never seemed to get going for me.

Track Two: 2 stars

A nice blues number, but nothing special to me. Fun, but it doesn't stand out.

Track Three: 1 star

Either this is Stand By Me, or the bassist should be sued. This one sounds very old fashioned to me, almost "prebop", as if the solos are just variations on the melody rather than using the chord changes or whatever. You musicians out there can hopefully decode what I'm trying to say.

Track Four: 3.5 stars

Watermelon Man for sure. Nice bop, reminds me of Lee Morgan's boogie numbers, but of course without a trumpet, odds are it isn't him... If I had to guess, I'd go with Mabern or Timmons, and at least one and a half of those 3.5 stars are solely for that piano solo. Cool! Is the sax Turrentine?

Track Five: 4.5 stars

Gimmegimmegimme; I want this one!! The drumming on this one blows me away, and I'm not the type who normally gets carried away with drumming. This one is just plain cool! I wish I knew who this was...

Track Six: 2.5 stars

Sounds like my kind of music, but something's missing. Some spark of soul just isn't there for me. It's well done, but just doesn't grab me.

Track Seven: 3 stars

Gad, it's some Bird tune, I know. Billie's Bounce is what I wrote down in my notes, but with five question marks around the guess, who knows? I should know this stuff by now! Very nice piano, trumpet is cool (not much trumpet on this disc, is there?). Very bebopish.

Track Eight: 2.5 stars

This is going to sound strange coming from a nonmusician, but I penalized this one quite heavily simply because I didn't agree with the interpretation. I knew it was Since I Fell for You from the first organ chord change in the intro, and it's one of my favorite songs. But it's just performed too "peppy" for me here. This is an incredibly depressing song to me (except that I love it!), and this interpretation just didn't make sense to me. So take my rating of this one with a grain of salt. (Like the others should be taken as gospel, eh? ) On the other hand, if I ignore that, the performance was excellent.

Track Nine: 3 stars

This sounds very familiar, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's somewhere on my shelves. And isn't that embarrassing, because I still don't know who it is. I don't know the name of the song either, but it sounds a lot like It Never Entered My Mind.

Track Ten: 2.5 stars

Very "gospelish". I love the bass solo-is that Ron Carter by any chance? Over all, I'd say it's okay.

Track Eleven: 3.5 stars

Footprints (thank you, KCSM!), but I don't know who did it. I've yet to hear a bad version of this song, though, and this one is nice.

Track Twelve: 2 stars

Another song that is well done, but just doesn't speak to me.

Track Thirteen: 4 stars

This isn't blues piano, this is GDMFing down and dirty blues piano! Shit!! This is the kind of thing that, if I was hearing it in a club and someone started talking behind me, I wouldn't turn around and ask them to be quiet, I'd just slam my bottle down in the middle of their clueless heads. Wow; I can't wait to find out who this is. (Sorry to neglect the sax, which was also incredible but that piano...wow!)

As far as the theme, I won't even try to guess. My "live jazz" and "trumpetless jazz" theories got shot down at various stages, and I couldn't come up with anything else. Now to read the thread and see how stupid I look...

[Brad]

Continuing on, I relistened to #6 and I want to say Dameronia did this but in certain spots I say then but I don't hear Philly Joe's strong presence, so who knows.

7. Billie's Bounce. Anyone who doesn't know this should turn their card in at the door. I'd like to say Sonny Stitt or Charles McPherson but not sure. It sounds a little bit like Sonny but the way he's playing makes me say. The trumpet really gets into it and really gets the lion share so it can't be Sonny. Basically, I have no idea. However, this is not my favorite version of the song. You just can't duplicate Bird. Piano has too strong a role here.

8. I love this tenor-organ combination. Don't know who it is (Gator Jackson?) but it's very soulful, great example of soul-jazz. This is meat and potatoes jazz (I mean that in a good way). No idea on the guitarist. Pat Martino? I'd buy this in a heart beat.

9. No idea. The sax player gets a real nice feeling. Just him playing to you. Pianist does fairly good job here and blends well with the mood.

10. This sounds vaguely familiar but I can't place it. Bluesy piano, who steals the show. I was surprised to hear the brief bass solo somehow I didn't think that would pop up.

That's all so far.

[Soul Stream]

Just got my CD...THANKS DAN!!! Anyway, GREAT mix CD I'll be listening to and enjoying alot in the car. Other than that, I don't have much of a clue. Just gave a cursory 10 second listen to each track but nothing jumped out at me immediately yet.

I only know one for sure. That's track 12, it's Groove Holmes AND he's kickin' bass too with the big band. SUPER nice stuff. I don't have the album, but it must be off that World Pacific "Welcome Home" LP from 68 or so.

Great CD.

Edited September 19, 2003 by Soul Stream

[mikeweil]

Thanks, Dan, to turning me to the jewels in my LP collection that I don't pull out that often. I've got the answer to # 6. I have it, and should have recognized a Dameron tune - I share his birthday and he's always been on of my favourite composers. At least my feeling that I should know all these guys was right. It's Sid's Delight, but not Dameronia, but that is pretty close. And it's not Philly Joe, but ....

Bruyninckx has detailed personnel listings for each track on that LP that I suggested for # 8, AMG lists only collective personnel. If he's right, it's Green.

It's a damn nice CD to keep on spinnin' all day!

[Jim R]

Regarding #8, it's amazing how differently I can hear something upon repeat listening with a different mindset. I probably had the earlier Green sound in mind in terms of discounting the possibility that it was Grant. I don't know when this was recorded, but I know I haven't listened to nearly as much of his work from the later portion of his career. Anyway, I think I "get it" now.

This game can sure be humbling...

[Brad]

Last night, before heading to bed, I put on the new Johnny Hammond Smith reissue from Fantasy, which features Gator Jackson, and he sounds remarkably like the tenor player on #8 so I'm pretty sure it's him. What the recording is, I have no idea.

[JohnS]

I've refrained from looking at the previous posts and only had time for a very quick listen, so here goes with my initial thoughts.

1. Gene Harris

2. Joe Williams

3. Nice alto, attractive rounded tone, don't know.

4. Watermelon Man, Red Holloway's done this

5. What's that a varitone? easy and relaxed, nice easy going alto, Stitt?

6. Jeez who's this, I'm sure I have this.

7. No ideas here, Bird's tune but the phrasing is rather "swingish".

8. Flamingo, sounds like one of those Granz sessions with Wild Bill Davis. Les

Spann on guitar

9. Nice ballad, but no stong identifying phrases.

10. Oliver Nelson maybe.

11. Very listenable, I feel I should know this but can't identify at present.

12. Jimmy Smith

13. Big very soullful tenor, I don't know, Houston Person? but I don't know too much about him.

If I get a chance I'll run through it again and post again

Nice soulful set, thanks for putting it togother.

[Dan Gould]

Today marks a week to ten days since over 30 discs were shipped. Other than the individuals who have contacted me directly regarding broken or yet-to-be-delivered discs, is there anyone else who asked for but has not received theirs?

I am quite disappointed with the PO this go-round, several broken discs, one confirmed MIA ....

[DrJ]

Got mine today...here are my thoughts. Note that where there is an "AFTER" designation, that's my thoughts AFTER I did some extra sleuthing (but before reading anyone else's posts), everything else is first impression, no added help from references of any kind. OBTW, theme of the disc? Not sure, but there were an awful lot of definitely live recordings (some could have been with crowd noise removed), and an awful lot that are probably vinyl only. So those would be guesses, beyond the thematic link being bluesy, soulful jazz.

1. From vinyl, live recording, sounds like 60’s or early 70’s vintage. Gospel-influenced soul piano bag. Les McCann? Gene Harris? Maybe even Ray Charles, to hazard a truly wild guess? Whatever, I often like understated and simple, but this was those things to a fault for me - kind of a string of clichés. Didn’t excite me. 2 stars.

2. If it’s not Joe Williams singing, it’s his clone. "I’d Rather Drink Muddy Water." Nothing too heavy, but a lot of fun, jiving with the crowd. Couldn’t tell you which album it’s on. My collection is woefully short on Williams, need to get remedy that. 3 stars.

3. Funny intro with that bass line, it almost sounded like the pop tune "Stand By Me!" The alto player has a REALLY Lou Donaldson-esque tone - that bright but ultimately kind of sweet-edged sound - is it Sweet Poppa? Fairly simple soulful jazz, sounds like mid to late-60’s vintage. Piano player I wasn’t sure on, but the first one who would pop to mind due to the vintage would be Herman Foster. Sign me up for this session, a hip tune and recording! 4 stars

AFTER: This may be track 5 of this album: Number 3

4. This one drove me nuts - I know this tune, but for the life of me I couldn’t come up with the name. Damn. Kind of lukewarm on this rendition, it’s pleasantly funky but ultimately a little mundane. Pretty sure it’s a baritone sax rather than a tenor, but it could be a REAL full toned tenor I suppose (and boy will I feel silly if it is). So, who plays funky baritone - Ronnie Cuber, maybe? Cecil Payne? Aw, I don’t know, those don’t feel right…2.5 stars.

5. A two-tenor date, they blend well. Sounds like 50’s or early 60’s vintage recording, some reverb on there. Pianist is playing firmly within the "less is more," Basie kind of mode. Stumped again. Could Billy Mitchell be one of the tenors (second solo), maybe an Argo date? 3 stars.

6. Tadd Dameron tune, "Tadd’s Delight," what a great piece of music. Nice, full tone on the ‘bone – sounds Curtis Fuller-esque. The tenor really blew me away, outstanding solo full of all kinds of playfulness around the beat. Unhurried, nice round sound - in fact, I know it couldn’t be him, but damn this guy has listened to his early period Hank Mobley! Sign me up for this side now, I want a copy - 5 stars!

7. Parker tune, "Billie’s Bounce." Breakneck pace, blazing. My first thought on the alto was Art Pepper based on tone, but then there were those amazingly fast phrases and Pepper never played with that kind of speed, and then I realized the tone was not quite right - too tart, too overtly hot for Pepper (pardon the pun). Sonny Criss would be my first guess, there’s some underlying "West Coast" feel about this one (not in a pejorative sense) that I can’t put my finger on. But I really don’t know. On trumpet then: maybe Conte Candoli? Loved the piano – hip player, logical and humorous quotes. Frank Strazzeri? I would be interested to hear the whole recording, this was fun. 4.5 stars.

8. Good old standby, "Since I Fell For You. My first thought on this was Shirley Scott and Stanley Turrentine, mainly because of the tenor player’s tone - that kind of "alto on tenor" tone especially in the high registers. But as far as I know, Stanley only did this tune on the BLUE HOUR sessions, and that was with piano. So I don’t know. The guitar player sounded a WHOLE lot like Grant Green in terms of some of the pet licks and ideas, but without his usual singing tone and fluidity - the latter could be due to recording limitations, the former - "personal problems" getting the best of him? I enjoyed this, uncomplicated soulfulness that would sound killer in a club. 3.5 stars.

AFTER: This could be this recording: Number 8

9. The beginning of the melody and harmonic progression are really reminiscent of "Glad to Be Unhappy," one of my favorite jazz ballads, but I’m almost certain it’s not that tune, and what tune it IS I just can’t quite recall. Pretty melody. I really have no idea who the players are. It’s a fairly recent recording. One thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the piano: too cute, I just didn’t like the harmonic additions he made, too "flowery" and sweet. The tenor sounded kind of flat or detached. So this was just OK, not a lot about any of the playing moved me. 2 stars.

10. I really dug this one but haven't a clue who it is. Some nice unison work between piano and tenor. AWESOME intro to the piano solo…very nicely done, I WANT this one…I have no idea who it is, though. Good tune also…would guess Junior Mance or Les McCann on piano. For the sax, someone who’s listened a lot to Coltrane and has fully assimilated some of his devices, but goes back further for their main inspiration or was active before Trane. Horrible direct bass sound on the solo. But that aside, a gem - 4.5 stars.

11. Tune is obviously Wayne Shorter’s "Footprints." Really nice version, I enjoyed this a lot. Again I really have no clue who it is. Outstanding bassist - not sure who, though. Pianist has some Latin influence going, I heard elements of Chick Corea in there. Drummer sounds seasoned, I thought about Billy Hart at several points. Regardless, I’d like this whole recording for sure. 4 stars, would have been more but there's a little feeling of playing it safe, reigning things in, where less controlled abandon might have put it into the "classic" realm.

AFTER: This MIGHT be this album: Number 11

12. Really no idea, but I’d guess an organ player of older vintage, maybe Wild Bill Davis. A little overcooked, shall we say, but agin would probably be great fun in a live situation. 2.5 stars, maybe 3 in the proper mood.

13. This one was tedious for me, slow going most of the way. The piano player used way too many pat flutters and licks and the rhythm section was metronomic. I dug the tenor player more when he began his solo, started out strong but then ran out of ideas half way through and it all became real tedious again. Again, not that I’m against these types of long, slow affairs but they have to be done JUST RIGHT to work. If I had to guess, I’d say a young-ish tenor player (boy am I goin’ out on a limb here - it’s probably some seasoned veteran and I’ll get my rear end FLAMED…) 1.5 stars.

Ah, that's it - can't wait to PEEK now. Thanks for a great CD-R Dan, I thoroughly enjoyed it and you've sold me a few recordings at least - all the ones 4 stars and higher I'll be trying to locate pronto.

Edited September 20, 2003 by DrJ

[DrJ]

OK, now I've peeked at others' responses and I feel even more silly about not being able to name track 4...geez! Humbling stuff...but fun. B)

Also: you guys are starting to make me sweat about #2 - I am PRETTY sure it's Joe Williams, although I did entertain the idea of OC Smith (anyone who has heard the Basie live Roulette material will know why), and now this Rawls suggestion is nagging at me...naw, it HAS to be Williams.

Edited September 20, 2003 by DrJ

[randyhersom]

I enjoy this way too much to be careful about looking stupid. I'm not able to listen as much as I'd like to these days and much of my listening is in a multitasking environment. Beside I can't hear you all laughing at me ; )

1. Live recording very churchy, bluesy number Trouble in Mind?. Ahmad Jamal or maybe the Three Sounds. Sixties or late fifties.

2. Joe Williams? I'd Rather Drink Muddy Water. The doubts I have are that I remember Joe Williams singing a little more full-voiced and usually with a bigger band. No, No, No the spoken stuff makes me pretty sure it's Lou Rawls. So who could that be on piano?

3. Early Rock and Roll feel. Did King Curtis play some alto too? I think I'll try the more logical Hank Crawford on this one. No idea on the tune

4. I'm beginning to wonder if the theme isn't Gene Harris. None of the tracks are absolutely not him. I'm thinking this is Stanley Turrentine with the Three Sounds.

5. Nice swinging theme. First tenor has a brawny tone that makes me think of Coleman Hawkins a bit. The second tenor solo has a lighter sound. Al and Zoot?

6. Jazz Messengers with Benny Golson and Curtis Fuller? No, the absence of trumpet in the ensembles seems to rule that out. Benny Golson as a leader is my best guess.

7. A Parker tune, Now's the Time, I think. The piano style is more modern. The alto's not trying to be a Bird copyist here. Enjoyable, maybe early Lou Donaldson.

8. Since I Fell For You, or a very similar tune. Lockjaw Davis and Shirley Scott?

9. Tatumesque piano opening leads into slow soulful tenor statement. The tune may be My One and Only Love, I think it's one of those tracks where the theme follows some improvisation. Did Dexter Gordon and Tommy Flanagan record together. Maybe even Barry Harris.

10. Funkier piano style here. Maybe Cannonball with Joe Zawinul or Vic Feldman.

11. I get a bossa nova feel from the drum pattern. Echoes of both Bill Evans and McCoy Tyner. If it was Tyner it would have to be very early. I'll say Bill Evans.

12. Sounds like Jimmy Smith on Verve with Oliver Nelson arranging a big band.

13. Slow greasy blues. Maybe even greazy. Bobby Timmons comes to mind, but he's known more for trio sessions. Very clean, yet very expressive tenor sax. I'm leaning toward Johnny Griffin over Dexter Gordon.

[Dan Gould]

As of this morning, 17 folks have posted their impressions out of 32 shipped.

When is it time to reveal? I notice that there is far less back & forth going on this time around than with Dr. J. Or maybe that's just the fact that JSgnrey had his first copy snagged by the Post Office ?

Anyway, I can post the answers later this week, or sooner if that's what people prefer.

[Noj]

Wish I had more to offer discussion-wise, Dan. At most I can say, 'yeah, that sounds right' about other's guesses.

FWIW I really dig the disc, I'm enjoying other's responses, and I'm looking forward to the answers.