It's a Wonderful Organissimo Board

[Kalo]

Wow! It's been suspenseful just reading through this thread over the past half hour. I can't imagine waiting out its actual duration.

I'm so glad that this board looks like it will continue. Thanks to Jim and to all of you for all of the knowledge and passion on display here.

And I for one appreciate all of the "off topic" threads, jibes, and jokes, as they contribute to the feeling of getting to know real people.

I contributed about a month ago, but I'm off to CD Baby right now to get some Organissimo discs for Xmas presents...

[mikeweil]

Now that I've recovered a little, let me say thanks to you Jim, for EVERYTHING!

This is the place!

I would surely miss it - it is the first webpage I open when I go online, and one of two I check every day.

The other is a German language classical music forum run by a guy from Austria that I joined a few months ago, and they seem to have gone through some similar crisis with indecent characters on the board - as a consequence new members are only accepted when they prove to be real persons (the main administrator actually called me on the phone to make sure I existed!) and are thrown off when do not contribute regularly. As a consequence this is a club of people seriously interested in the music.

To lessen the burden of moderation they have a host of moderators for each subforum, so the board is somewhat run collectively, which seems to work - I would volunteer to moderate the Blindfold Test forum if needed!

I opt for regular donations - especially by those who use the board frequently. There are things much less important in my life I spend money for ...

There are plenty shoulders here to share carrying the burden of keeping this board in shape: what can we do?

Anyway - the wealth of information buried here should be saved!

[HolyStitt]

I bought both albums, thrice (twice as presents).

Proof ... Organissimo in south-western Germany, unfortunately the only copies I'm aware of in the area.

I'm talkin' 'bout Organissimo.

Seriously, I didn't mean it as an attack or accusation against anyone.

[Aggie87]

As far as moderating goes, I'd venture a guess that the Political and Misc Non Political forums would be where the greatest attention would be needed.

I don't see alot of fighting or negativity elsewhere, generally (except for Big Al's apparent disdain for Charlie Parker! )

Edited December 5, 2007 by Aggie87

[AllenLowe]

would LOVE to do the Chicago thing - been wanting to visit for a long time - if promo'd right, could draw some of the jazz community out there as well and would be good for the site, good for business -

and please count me in as a performer - would love some organ trio backing (hint hint) -

just plan it for after the snow season -

[AllenLowe]

just emailed Jim, but a few ideas for Chicago - we can rent tables to vendors (record companies, CD sellers, LP seller), have showcases, and maybe a human sacrifice -

[AllenLowe]

also, Larry Gushee lives out that way -

[Aggie87]

Would love to go to a day-long show featuring all of our board-member musicians!

Allen Lowe

Paul McKee

Paul Abella Trio

Quartet Out

David Beardsley

Mike Weil

Frank Kimbrough

Phil Grenadier

Root Doctor

Organissimo

Who am I forgetting?

That would be a cool show! Chicago, next summer!

Edited December 5, 2007 by Aggie87

[JSngry]

...maybe a human sacrifice -

You mean have a rapper sit in?

[Tim McG]

I've purposely stayed away from the board (and the internet for that matter) today to allow myself time to think about this. I will admit that my reaction was "in the heat of the moment", but it is something that has been bothering me for a long time. It is very multifaceted and challenging to put into words succinctly, but I will try.

The financial part is well documented. The current costs to host this site with CIHost, based in Texas, is $99 per month for a dedicated server and $50 a month for weekly back-ups of that server. Hosting your average website is cheap, yes, but when you move the amount of data around that we are, you not only use up your monthly bandwidth quickly, you also move extremely slow. Remember when this board dogged like crazy? That was because it was on a shared server for awhile. Sure, it only cost $20 a month, but with the current 600+mb database and numerous people visiting every day, you'd reach any limits very fast. So a dedicated server is a must. And having backups is a must.

I've gone through the numbers in public here before, but the bulk of this site is paid for by the band through CD sales from CDBaby and any money from the search bar above linked to Amazon and CDUniverse. Not much comes down that pipeline; maybe $20 every two months. CDBaby sales vary but average around $50 a month. Sometimes we don't sell any for the month. Whatever is left comes directly out of my pocket.

So, $150 a month doesn't sound like much, I realize. But to me it is. I have been playing music all my life. I've been a full-time musician, with no other income, since 2001. In the past six years I've seen gas go from $1.25 a gallon to darn near triple that. I am making the same amount of money, on average per gig, that my dad was when he was a full-time musician 30 years ago. He was able support a wife and five kids on that income. He finally got tired of being out all night, and became a piano technician and eventually had two more kids.

I could not support my family on the income I make and I only have one child. The only reason I'm not homeless is because my wife works. She is the main bread-winner, but even so we live month to month. I'm not telling this for sympathy, just to try to explain my situation. Yes, my situation is my choice, a choice that I am seriously reconsidering right now. The music industry has always been hard but this year was one of the worst years as far as gigging goes that I've ever seen. And I don't see it getting better any time soon. Everybody is scraping. I just played a gig tonight for $80 at a college bar where everybody was pissed off at us because we were playing while they were trying to watch MSU basketball on ESPN. $80 to haul a Hammond organ and Leslie through the snow and be out until 2:00am, away from my family, around unappreciative drunks.

It sounds like I am complaining; maybe I am. What I'm trying to say is that I have several things weighing down on my mind stemming from money. I have a new baby coming in April. My wife has to have a c-section. She'll be out of work for at least 6 weeks. Her current job has no maternity leave. I have nothing booked past February and what is booked is few and far between.

Besides that, the money that the band gives to the operation of this site from our CDBaby sales could have easily paid off our current debt from our last two CDs. We're still in the red from those discs and we don't really feel comfortable making another record until we've paid off what we owe on the first two. We could've been in the black a long time ago with the CDBaby money.

Okay, so financially things are being strained, yes. Subscriptions might be an answer. This software does allow automatic subscription services. But then that might conflict with the other thing: The health of the forums.

How many new members are we getting? When those members post, are they welcomed or instantly ridiculed? Is this a boys club with a special handshake or an open forum that welcomes new people?

I have expressed this before, but sometimes I feel like this place is playground for a select few. I want people to feel comfortable here. I want people to want to join in the discussions. I want people to feel welcomed. I do not like the clique-ishness that is evident here sometimes.

Would subscriptions then push away even more people? Who pays a subscription vs. who doesn't? What does the subscriber get that the others don't? Or should they be voluntary subscribers?

I am not happy that Chaney left (awhile ago), Jim R has left, Bev left a long time ago, and J.A.W. just recently left. When I first read couw's comment about it, I got pissed off and you can kind of read that in my reply. But after thinking about it for a few days I realized that he's partly right. I still don't know what to do about it, but he's right.

I would like less personal attacks and less name calling. I would like people to use the features of this software (like the ignore function) and exercise self-control. I would like more problems between members to be dealt with via PMs, instead of airing your dirty laundry to everyone. The jazz community is small enough as it is; do we really need to piss on each other?

Getting rid of political and religious discussion might help. Then again, one of the most contentious rivalries currently active on the board is between two members active in the baseball thread, which is in the miscellaneous forum. So whaddya gonna do?

Another thing that has been gnawing at me: As some of you know, Zora broke her elbow three weeks ago. I was in the room when it happened. I saw her leap off the chair. I was not paying attention to her, I was absorbed with my playing, practicing the organ. Nobody thinks it is my fault. But I still feel guilty about it because I was not paying attention to her.

Several times today she got upset at me because I wasn't listening to her. My mind was somewhere else, even though she was in the room trying to interact with me.

God, I do not want to be the distant dad. This board is one of several distractions in my life that I personally need to get a handle on. I spend too much time on the computer and not enough time interacting with Zora, writing music, writing poetry, talking with my wife, etc. This is something that I must change.

This place takes a lot of time to manage. I do like the idea of moderators. I do not know who to enlist for that job.

The other thing that is always in the back of my mind is the association of the board with the band. Is it helping? Is it hurting? Does it matter (no such thing as bad publicity)? Should I change the name and put it on a different domain?

I honesly don't want to shut the place down. But some things need to change. I don't know what the answers are. Let someone else take it? Change the name? Moderators? Be more persistant with the fundraising?

I don't know. I'm re-evaluating a lot of things in my life right now, most fundamentally whether I want or can afford to be a musician anymore and how to provide better for my family.

I'm sorry for freaking everybody out, but I need your help to figure out the best course of action that will satisfy the community and myself.

Jim,

I went through a rough financial stretch a couple years ago where I nearly lost my house and almost went belly-up over it: We were only a few days away from bankruptcy, it was that bad. I know exactly what you're going through right now and it is a incredibly difficult place to be. Fatherhood and family come first and I have faced the lonely prospect of being a distant father to my own son because of my responsibilities as a teacher and as a [former] debate coach which took me away from my kids. I quit years ago to devote more time to my daughter which I [sadly] did not to my son. I know from harsh experience what you are up against and have paid the price. My relationship with my son is surface at best, but I swore I wouldn't do to my daughter what I had done to my son....so I quit coaching.

Given the out pouring of support on this thread and the sheer weight in numbers of people who are more than willing to help both financially and by serving as a moderator, it seems to me we can fix this and get you the time you need to be a Dad and take care of business elsewhere, too.

You make a straight forward and honest request regarding flaming and subscription concerns. I, for one, am more than willing to help in both those capacities and in any voluntary position I can to help keep this place going. Many ideas have been posed and I think there is a consensus on the money relative to subscriptions and moderators.

Please know this, Jim: You do what you need to do. Family comes first and I have experienced both the benefits and the heartache and learned that when in crisis, the rest of the world needs to take a backseat. I didn't realize that with my first child...I know that now with my second child.

You do what is best for you and your family, Jim....not us. Trust me.

Tim

Edited December 5, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Chalupa]

Would love to go to a day-long show featuring all of our board-member musicians!

Allen Lowe

Paul McKee

Paul Abella Trio

Quartet Out

David Beardsley

Mike Weil

Frank Kimbrough

Phil Grenadier

Root Doctor

Organissimo

Who am I forgetting?

That would be a cool show! Chicago, next summer!

Jim Sangrey

Reptet

[mikeweil]

Would love to go to a day-long show featuring all of our board-member musicians!

Allen Lowe

Paul McKee

Paul Abella Trio

Quartet Out

David Beardsley

Mike Weil

Frank Kimbrough

Phil Grenadier

Root Doctor

Organissimo

Who am I forgetting?

That would be a cool show! Chicago, next summer!

You're flattering to include me on the list .... how much is the fare over the drink? Dunno if I can afford it.

[JSngry]

Better to ask how the drink will be over the fair!

(American beer joke...)

[RDK]

Would love to go to a day-long show featuring all of our board-member musicians!

Allen Lowe

Paul McKee

Paul Abella Trio

Quartet Out

David Beardsley

Mike Weil

Frank Kimbrough

Phil Grenadier

Root Doctor

Organissimo

Who am I forgetting?

That would be a cool show! Chicago, next summer!

You're flattering to include me on the list .... how much is the fare over the drink? Dunno if I can afford it.

Heh. We can raise more than enough money by simply threatening a get-together in Chicago. How much would I pay to save the expense of going to that?

Seriously, it's a great idea, but the logistics will be tough. I may already be in Chicago for a wedding in the Spring, but a second trip is out of the question.

[marcoliv]

i'm back from a long medical license and just heard the news.

i haven't read previous posts but my email is marcavol@hotmail.com and hopefully we will find a way to keep this forum alive.

it's good to be back by the way

Marcus

[ghost of miles]

Definitely in for Chicago... definitely in for another donation to the forums. $1925 won't be hard to reach at all IMO, esp. if (again, speaking from much fund-drive experience) there's a visible sense of momentum that builds from seeing how far we have to go. And as an annual event it would take some of the pressure off Jim to have to periodically beat the drum for $$.

Very, very glad this place is still going to be around.

[ejp626]

Sweet -- I call the Afterparty's at jazzypaul's place.

What a ride -- from despondency to new hope in just a day or two. And maybe even an Organissimo concert in Chicago! Too sweet. I can definitely help (a bit) with Chicago logistics. If Hothouse is still semi-viable (i.e. not totally foreclosed) by the late spring/summer that would be an amazing place to rent, and I imagine it would be easier/cheaper now than a year ago. There are a handful of other places (I was investigating this two years ago before the band made it to Chicago), but Hothouse would be the best.

[7/4]

Let's put on a show!

[jazzbo]

Things are looking up! I was in a position to make a generous (I thought) donation and did. I think that the financial part of the equation will be easy to solve, and the moderation volunteer issue should also prove to be a small hurdle at most.

Win win on the way I think!

No trips to Chicago for me, but have fun!

[Christiern]

Yes, let's...

[AllenLowe]

how about the Organissimo big band? The Kamikaze Orchestra? The Self-Destructive 4? Allen Lowe and His Make You Wanna Sit This One Out Orchestra...

[AllenLowe]

or we could have a gladiator fight - everybody who's battled it out here...last one left standing gets to dance with Berigan -

[Clunky]

I've always been more of a lurker than a real contributor here but since day one ( or was it day 2) when I joined I've always loved this place. I've not really got to personally know many posters here yet I ( like others have said ) feel familiar and very comfortable in this company of strangers.

I don't really go anywhere else for my jazz fix on the web. I doubt I'd bother with AAJ, just doesn't suit me (although I'm sure the folks there are mighty fine). I really hope this place stays.

[jazzypaul]

Sweet -- I call the Afterparty's at jazzypaul's place.

yeah, we could have one helluva drum circle over here.

I will pitch in when I can. New baby expenses are kicking my ass, as anyone that's had a baby can attest to. Maybe I could do an Allen Lowe style buy my CD and the profits go to Jim kinda thing. PM me if you're interested.

[ejp626]

or we could have a gladiator fight - everybody who's battled it out here...last one left standing gets to dance with Berigan -

Last one standing gets to name a teddy bear after their favorite jazz icon (living or dead). (Dang it, I just dragged politics into this.)

While renting a place is probably the way to go, someone in my office learned how to go through the hoops to set up a block party where they close off the street and everything. I believe that getting the license for live musicians isn't much extra. That would also be mighty cool -- the East Lakeview block party featuring Organissimo and friends.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ejp626