Chuck Nessa Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Might this be moved to an appliance thread? Quote
Joe G Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Might this be moved to an appliance thread? http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=437695 Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Might this be moved to an appliance thread? http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=437695 Guess we been there, done that. Thanks for some reality Joe. Quote
Kalo Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Hi hepcat1950 and WorldB3! Can I just say that I enjoyed my time at AAJ very much and have a lot of time for many people there - posters and amongst those who run the board. I hope they can get things sorted out - there are few places to discuss jazz and related musics as it is. The positive side of this sad episode is returning here and enjoying chatting to people I've not talked with in a while. I've taken my shoes off and put my slippers on. Amazing to see so many voting with their virtual feet... Welcome back, Bev, and welcome to all... Quote
hepcat1950 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Hi hepcat1950 and WorldB3! Can I just say that I enjoyed my time at AAJ very much and have a lot of time for many people there - posters and amongst those who run the board. I hope they can get things sorted out - there are few places to discuss jazz and related musics as it is. The positive side of this sad episode is returning here and enjoying chatting to people I've not talked with in a while. I've taken my shoes off and put my slippers on. Hi Bev, I also enjoyed my time at AAJ, and I also haven't lost any hope that things can be sorted out. Two aspects are important for me when I decide to register to a forum. One aspect is the overall impression I get from the themes/forums offered for discussion and the way a forum is moderated. Then there are the members of a forum who make the whole thing go alive. I did no longer feel comfortable with regard to the first aspect, and watching some of the most interesting people move didn't make me feel any better. I continue to take part in the current discussion over there..... Quote
kenny weir Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 (edited) I, too, wish AAJ well. Until yesterday I had knowledge of the current brouhaha. My mild beef lies with a topsy turvy set of priorities, a sort of political correctness gone a little batty. Whereby some posters, and one in particular (mentioned already on this thread), seem to get away with some amazingly awful, hateful shit. Take them to task, though, and you're liable to be asked to desist from making things "too personal". A byproduct of the overall approach - and perhaps part of the "business" approach - seems to see trolls, or at least troll-like behaviour, a sort of protected species. More broadly, this kind of vibe doesn't allow for the kind of spontaneous thinking that could see a thread largely about another forum soar/plunge/morph into one about haircuts and so on. Kenny - a No.1 man for the past 10 years. Edited January 29, 2008 by kenny weir Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 the kind of spontaneous thinking that could see a thread largely about another forum soar/plunge/morph into one about haircuts and so on. Well, this is primarily a JAZZ forum. Those of us who can't play instruments have to do it some way (and so do some of us who can). MG Quote
Tony Pusey Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Wish I still had enough hair to be a number 1 man..... Quote
Christiern Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Kenny Weir, just last night, as I made a quick trip to survey Cyberround Zero, I came across one of your posts and found myself hoping that you would ease your way across the border. Hope you are here to stay in a place where exchanges drift to silliness when they reach the edge of discomfort and most of the locks are on our heads. Apropos that, I'm getting a conventional $10 haircut this morning. Quote
Ron S Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Apropos that, I'm getting a conventional $10 haircut this morning. In the Upper West Side? Quote
Christiern Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Yes, on the Upper West Side. The normal plain haircut rate here is $10-12. In Philly? Quote
7/4 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Yes, on the Upper West Side. The normal plain haircut rate here is $10-12. In Philly? It's $10-12 in this part of NJ. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Bleedin' 'ell - it's a tenner here ($20 to you, Guv) and this is a cheapo area. MG Quote
papsrus Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 My No. 2 costs $12 at Super Clips (kind of the McDonald's of the hair-cutting industry). Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 £5 at "Bulldog Barbers". Worth taking a cheap flight, if only for the edgy ambiance. Quote
Ron S Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 I've been paying $20+ for many years now (5 or 6 times a year). Plus tip, of course. And trust me, my hair ain't nothin' special. Granted, I don't go to a men-only barber-pole-out-front kind of place, which probably explains the higher cost. Quote
Parkertown Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Nice to see Bev and the others here. I haven't read AAJ in at least 3-4 years...so most of you are new to me. I look forward to learning from all of you. Welcome! Quote
djbinder Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 For those of us who stopped visiting AAJ some time ago, is there a short version of what happened over there that anyone cares to share? From what I gather, Ed Byrne and "Clave" had disagreements on the Musician thread and another one about musical theory. I hadn't really followed what happened between them, but Mike didn't like Clave and Ed's back and forths and came down on Ed's side of the situation going on between them. Then when a thread became somewhat abusive towards Ed, nothing at all being said against Ed by Clave, when humor was injected by JFitzGenius, after a comment about berets being worn, and JFitz talking about Cowboy hats being Verboten, Clave posted a photo of a musican in a black hat, and then of another one in a Cowboy hat, we kibitzed back and forth about Cowboys, rednecks, (me telling about an encounter with a couple of no talent singer guitar players singing about Rich and myself one afternoon), nothing at all was being said or implied about Ed being anything at all. It was just humor on a thread that was going nowhere, it had run it's course, and Ed had left the equasion, so those posts were deleted, and Clave was told she'd be banned as they wanted to keep the posts on jazz and wanted them to be intelligent and if she didn't stay off the musician board, and follow directives about the post Jay Noram had started on Ed, she would be banned. So in the end that's what happened, she was banned. Much ado about nothing. With all due respect, that's not at all an accurate or complete depiction of what went down. As has been posted by both Mike and the "goon from Ottawa," JKelman, it was a little more complicated than that. Mike asked clave to stop posting in a particular thread as the result of a conflict with Ed Byrne who, like Clave, has his share of supporters and detractors. She chose to ignore him and continued to post. Mike then banned her temporarily, in order to (a) try and let the situation defuse, (b) accommodate the fact that he was in the beginning of a house move, and © make his feelings about her ignoring his request as a moderator known. That a number of posts were removed was in the interest of trying to separate the wheat from the chaff, since the thread had begun dissolving (no pun intended!), even if some of the posts were themselves innocuous. It wasn't those posts that were the issue. Clave signed back on - not once, not twice, but multiple times, and took the conflict public in a big way. Mike banned her permanently as a result and, being in the middle of a house move and largely offline, was unable to address it or other folks' posts in any great detail - only being able to get online occasionally during a five-day period (JKelman tried to throw in a different perspective, but was largely ignored or argued with). Mike is now back online and planning to organize a teleconference with interested parties to discuss the situation and come to a resolution that will, hopefully, make as many people as possible happy. AAJ board members can check out the thread in the "About the Board" forum if they're interested in participating, which seems like a good idea to me. Mike also wants to step down as a moderator, as does JKelman - not because of any pressure to do so from board members or because of this particular incident (though it does appear to be the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back), but because they're both apparently way too busy with developing/growing the main website, and the amount of time situations like this (and it's been leading to this for some time, apparently) take away from those long hours spent at the main site simply can't be sacrificed. Both are looking for people willing to take on this responsibility, but the bottom line appears to be: Mike (and JKelman) sound frankly pretty reasonable about the whole thing. Whether Mike's request of Ellen was legit/reasonable or not, it was escalated to a degree of unnecessary and destructive publicity by Clave. The initial upset may be a subject on which people fall onto different sides as far as accountability, but it's likely this could have been handled a whole lot better, that's for sure; but if Mike is culpable for actions some believe to be draconian, then so, too, is Clave, who took what should have been a private conflict resolution process and made it a messy and hugely distruptive public one. So from where I stand there's fault to be had on both sides. I think it's important to try and view this from a balanced perspective and, instead, the majority of folks weighing in on it are either for or against. It's not an either/or; it's a conflict, and one that should have been resolved quietly without any muss or fuss. Sadly that's not what happened. Quote
catesta Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 I'm all for talking about old TV game shows. Quote
Christiern Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 There used to be a jazz spot here in NYC, called Michael's Pub. It featured great music played by the very best in the business,l but it was a terrible place to go to, because the guy who ran it was a rude, attitude-ridden jerk. AAJ reminds me, in many ways, of Michael's Pub--which went out of business, BTW. Quote
Aggie87 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 I'm all for talking about old TV game shows. Let's do it again! Quote
rachel Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 well.... all I want to say is that seeline has never taken anything but the high road in this situation since she has been here, which I truly respect. She adds immensely to the board discussions. Their loss is most certainly our gain. (and certainly John Kelman could speak for himself, eh? ) Quote
kenny weir Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 the kind of spontaneous thinking that could see a thread largely about another forum soar/plunge/morph into one about haircuts and so on. Well, this is primarily a JAZZ forum. Those of us who can't play instruments have to do it some way (and so do some of us who can). MG I agree. The AAJ mentality seems to deter out and out goofiness and thread hijacking in general. Quote
kenny weir Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 Kenny Weir, just last night, as I made a quick trip to survey Cyberround Zero, I came across one of your posts and found myself hoping that you would ease your way across the border. Hope you are here to stay in a place where exchanges drift to silliness when they reach the edge of discomfort and most of the locks are on our heads. Apropos that, I'm getting a conventional $10 haircut this morning. Chris, I've actually been hanging out here - even if not posting all that often - all along. I'm a bit of a slut that way. Quote
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