Blue Note Reissues for 2008...

[AndrewHill]

See sidewinder's post above; he describes it pretty well. To my ears it's quite different than Spiral/Medina/Total Eclipse. I like it!

Thanks, I did, but I guess what I want to really know is if the music itself has the same vibe as the one on Total Eclipse/Patterns/Spiral/ Medina but I guess it doesn't. Do appreciate the Land/Hutch/Chambers collaboration and I'll probably end up picking it up anyway.

[sidewinder]

what I want to really know is if the music itself has the same vibe as the one on Total Eclipse/Patterns/Spiral/ Medina but I guess it doesn't.

Not really - 'less pastoral' would be my description. Side 1 has quite a formal feel to it, with the extra instruments providing something of an orchestral backdrop at times. Side 2 of the LP seems to me quite distinct from side 1 though ('Mtume' etc), with a sound that is sort of reminiscent of the 'Now' session but without the voices. Almost Strata-Eastish. Really though, the LP has a quite distinct - and darker (I think) - sound to any of the other Hutch albums.

Not sure if that helps?

Edited December 8, 2007 by sidewinder

[DMP]

"Brass Shout" has been out as a Japanese import, don't think it was all that rare. (If I have it, sitting here in Pittsburgh, it must have been fairly easy to find.) Nice to see "Heads Up" out again, with the recent Hutcherson "Mosaic Select" a neglected period has been restored. Anyway, maybe the reports of the death of the music business have been premature.

Edited December 8, 2007 by DMP

[AndrewHill]

what I want to really know is if the music itself has the same vibe as the one on Total Eclipse/Patterns/Spiral/ Medina but I guess it doesn't.

Not really - 'less pastoral' would be my description. Side 1 has quite a formal feel to it, with the extra instruments providing something of an orchestral backdrop at times. Side 2 of the LP seems to me quite distinct from side 1 though ('Mtume' etc), with a sound that is sort of reminiscent of the 'Now' session but without the voices. Almost Strata-Eastish. Really though, the LP has a quite distinct - and darker (I think) - sound to any of the other Hutch albums.

Not sure if that helps?

That does! Thanks!

[sidewinder]

You're welcome. 'Head On' is a strange album. First time I heard it, I didn't like it at all. Found it somewhat disquieting. Its only after a few plays that you realise there's a very serious message coming out of this album and its appeal grows.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

am i wrong in thinking that the Bn master tapes contain all the alternate takes....if the bn disgcog. says, for example, one sone reached take 41, does that mean theres 40 more versions of cornbread on the tape? for example?

[RDK]

There's a Mosaic Select for you: "The Complete Lee Morgan 'Cornbread' Takes"

[Tom 1960]

Another person looking forward to hearing both Louis Smith sessions. So far my only exposure to Smith has been by the way of the Kenny Burrell release Blue Lights. That was reason enough to want to hear more. Also curious as to peoples thoughts on the Freddie Redd disc? I see Jackie McLean and Tina Brooks are on that session.

[JSngry]

am i wrong in thinking that the Bn master tapes contain all the alternate takes....if the bn disgcog. says, for example, one sone reached take 41, does that mean theres 40 more versions of cornbread on the tape? for example?

You gotta remember that a lot of those "takes" are going to be false starts, breakdowns, etc.

But there's definitely more in the vaults than what's come out so far. Question is, is it "marketable" to any mot the most fetishistic?

Probably not.

[Swinging Swede]

The BN take numbers are a bit unusual in that they cover all tunes of the sessions, so in the case of the Cornbread session we get:

Lee Morgan Sextet

Lee Morgan (tp) Jackie McLean (as -2/4) Hank Mobley (ts) Herbie Hancock (p) Larry Ridley (b) Billy Higgins (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 18, 1965

1. 1651 tk.1 Ceora Blue Note BLP 4222, BN-LA 224-G

2. 1652 tk.2 Our Man Higgins Blue Note BLP 4222

3. 1653 tk.6 Most Like Lee -

4. 1654 tk.12 Cornbread Blue Note 45-1930, BLP 4222

5. 1655 tk.15 Ill Wind Blue Note BLP 4222

So if the master take was the last attempt at each tune, there should be six takes of Cornbread. As JSngry says there will likely be many false starts and breakdowns among them. Cuscuna sometimes add alternate takes to CD reissues when he deems the quality good enough, but there may very well be complete takes he hasn't included because he doesn't deem them worthy of release. He has after all been unwilling to release unissued master takes from certain sessions, just because he personally doesn't like them.

[Swinging Swede]

Wayne Shorter – The Soothsayer

Hopefully with that annoying shrill-ness taken out of the sound?

But it was only earlier copies of The Soothsayer that were affected, right? This was discussed many years ago, probably on the old BNBB. I know my copy doesn't have any sound problems.

Not only "discussed" on the old BNBB, but it was our discovery of that tape distortion caused Blue Note to pull the master tape back out and re-do the CD to fix that nastiness. It was too bad that they never pulled the original mucked up discs. I bet I bought 3 copies of it before I got one that was "fixed". That was back in the days when the BN board was doing its thing to help BN succeed.

Cor blimey! I didn't remember that! Do you remember what year that was approximately? The CD came out already in 1990 and the BNBB didn't start until 1999, so the defective version must have been out there for an awfully long time. I think I remember some early prehistoric forum software on the Blue Note site (1997-99?), but I only occasionally lurked at that time. Does anyone else remember it?

I think the BNBB as we knew it started in Spring 1999. In August 1999 I made my first post and it was a question about - of all things - Louis Smith!

FWIW, Organissimo.org has taken over from that old BN board as the place to get the word to and from Blue Note for many years now. Another reason to be thankful to Jim and the guys.

Yes, I view this as a direct continuation of the BNBB, since it was more or less the same people coming over here when the BNBB was closing. A few didn't. Hardbop comes to mind.

[Swinging Swede]

Kevin,

Could you ask Michael for more info about the Silver Newport date (or maybe I'll call him eventually)?

I assume it is from the VOA collection at the Library of Congress (which also yielded the Monk/Trane). They have a bunch of the Newport stuff.

The reason I asked is that I told him about some Blakey dates from that archive, but I don't know if he ever followed up.

Bertrand, the liner notes were posted by Kevin in another thread. Although Cuscuna first heard the Silver at Newport session at the Library of Congress, the CD is actually mastered from tapes found in the Columbia vaults and in stereo! Columbia producer George Avakian supervised the recording of the entire Newport festival that year. Columbia albums from Newport 1958 by Ellington, Miles and Brubeck come to mind, but it's interesting that more has been lying unissued there the entire time (what else, one wonders?).

From Newport 1959 a professional stereo recording exists of the Ellington band, but it only came out in 1989 on an EmArcy CD. What label recorded it originally? Mercury recorded the Quincy Jones orchestra at Newport in 1961, but were other sets recorded professionally too? If not, there is always the possibility of VOA mono tapes at the Library of Congress, as you mention. Cuscuna mentions that he was auditioning several tapes at the LoC, so who knows, maybe Blakey was among them?

[dukesantos]

Another person looking forward to hearing both Louis Smith sessions. So far my only exposure to Smith has been by the way of the Kenny Burrell release Blue Lights. That was reason enough to want to hear more. Also curious as to peoples thoughts on the Freddie Redd disc? I see Jackie McLean and Tina Brooks are on that session.

IMHO "Shades of Redd" is Freddie Redd's masterpiece, even better than the excellent "Music from the Connection", and certainly better than "Redd's Blues". Actually it's one of my favorites of the more obscure BN's (along with the J.R. Monterose album, "Happy Frame of Mind" by Horace Parlan, Booker Ervin's "The In Between", "Puttin' it Together" by Elvin Jones, and "Basra" by Pete LaRoca- just so you get an idea of my tastes). My only criticism (I own the Toshiba edition) is that Tina Brooks is too far back in the mix. Nevertheless this is a great, great album and the song "Thespian" is a wonder unto itself. I highly recommend it. I'm also happy to see another Bobby Hutcherson album RVG'ed. Actually I'm happy to hear that anything is being released as I read an article that in passing mentioned that the RVG's were no more. I say keep'em coming.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hi Dukesantos, and welcome!

MG

[dukesantos]

Hi Dukesantos, and welcome!

MG

thanks and cheers.

[Bluerein]

Quote: "He has after all been unwilling to release unissued master takes from certain sessions, just because he personally doesn't like them."

This is not completely correct. He doesn't issue them because he thinks it doesn't do the artist justice. That's a valid musical reason imo.

[J Larsen]

It seems to me that that is just a hair removed from "doesn't personally like them." If you like an artist, but in your personal view a particular release does not do that artist justice, it is likely that you do not personally care for that release. Likewise, if you like an artist but do not care for one of his releases, it is likely that you do not think that release does the artist justice.

[Bluerein]

Nonsence.....I know for a fact that MC loves Lee Morgan and want's to get everything reasonable out. Three additional tunes from a session (other 3 are added to the Sixth Sense CD) are great imo but the solo's of Lee are not up to his own (ok very high I admit) standards and so MC doesn't release them (although he likes them as well).

[Eric]

what I want to really know is if the music itself has the same vibe as the one on Total Eclipse/Patterns/Spiral/ Medina but I guess it doesn't.

Not really - 'less pastoral' would be my description. Side 1 has quite a formal feel to it, with the extra instruments providing something of an orchestral backdrop at times. Side 2 of the LP seems to me quite distinct from side 1 though ('Mtume' etc), with a sound that is sort of reminiscent of the 'Now' session but without the voices. Almost Strata-Eastish. Really though, the LP has a quite distinct - and darker (I think) - sound to any of the other Hutch albums.

Not sure if that helps?

That does! Thanks!

I am realy looking forward to this one. I've had it on lp for years and have always enjoyed it. Good description above ...

[user0815]

There's a Mosaic Select for you: "The Complete Lee Morgan 'Cornbread' Takes"

or even better: "the complete blue note lee morgan 1960s false starts"

or at least some kind of compilation like: "jazz for days where nothing works: the best of the blue note false starts and breakdowns"

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

There's a Mosaic Select for you: "The Complete Lee Morgan 'Cornbread' Takes"

or even better: "the complete blue note lee morgan 1960s false starts"

or at least some kind of compilation like: "jazz for days where nothing works: the best of the blue note false starts and breakdowns"

I think you have a selling idea there! Tell Michael Cuscuna.

MG

[user0815]

From Kevin later in the thread:

March 11 RVGs

Jimmy Smith – Live At The Baby Grand V. 1

Jimmy Smith – Live At The Baby Grand V. 2

Ike Quebec – Blue And Sentimental

Jutta Hipp With Zoot Sims

Here Comes Louis Smith

Stanley Turrentine – Look Out!

Freddie Redd – Shades Of Redd

Horace Silver – Further Explorations

Lou Donaldson – Here ‘Tis

Wayne Shorter – The Soothsayer

happy as a pig in fresh mud to see that the rvg-series continues !

and yes, i do like the sound of the rvg-cds !

glad to see the silver-album on the list. never heard this one but really looking forward for the rvg-cd ... as much as i like the silver-albums with the cook-mitchell-frontline ... i like the albums with other horn players even better, especially the one with farmer and mobley ("stylings of silver")

the donaldson-album is the one with green and willette, right ?! ... ok, one for me, please!

but ... where are the 3 sounds ?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

but ... where are the 3 sounds ?

Dan Gould will send you a Christmas card for that

MG

[user0815]

but ... where are the 3 sounds ?

Dan Gould will send you a Christmas card for that

MG

nothing against dan gould ... but i would much prefer a 3-sounds-rvg for christmas

are the 3 sounds now erased from the official blue note history ?

Edited December 11, 2007 by user0815

[Big Al]

glad to see the silver-album on the list. never heard this one but really looking forward for the rvg-cd ... as much as i like the silver-albums with the cook-mitchell-frontline ... i like the albums with other horn players even better, especially the one with farmer and mobley ("stylings of silver")

This is a nice album, but it's not your typical romp-n-stomp classic-lineup swinger that the Cook-Mitchell albums are. It's a lot more intricate, but it still swings! It definitely lives up to its title.