Caiman.com on amazon Suspect cdrs sold as new.

[Claude]

I think it's rather pointless to order a CD from a seller who doesn't have it in stock, when you know the CD is OOP. Caiman seems to have nothing in stock.

I've been ordering almost all my CDs from Caiman in the past 6 months (at least 50 orders), and I received all but one of them. The CD I'm still waiting for is Art Blakey's "Child's dance", that I ordered 7 weeks ago and that seems to be hard to find

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000000ZE1/

[king ubu]

Yes, but in the case of said Woody Shaw disc, they deleted their offer and put it in again... so what should I believe? That they're lying? If so, Amazon should do something against what I'd consider an abuse.

I guess I'm just naïve... anyway, it's not a good service they offer, at least not as far as I am concerned.

[JohnS]

No problems with Caiman here except for one advertised item not in stock/available and a couple of occasions when items took longer than specified to arrive.

[Daniel A]

I'd say Caiman is violating Amazon Marketplace Participation Agreement by not having the items in stock. But that goes for a lot of other sellers as well.

8. Your Transactions

a. For sales where a Seller lists goods at a fixed price ("fixed price sales"), the Seller is obligated to sell the goods at the listed price to Buyers who meet the Seller's terms. By listing an item in a fixed price sale or by auction, you represent and warrant to prospective Buyers that you have the right and ability to sell, and that the listing is accurate, current, and complete and is not misleading or otherwise deceptive.

(italics/bold by me)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/dis...;nodeId=1161302

[king ubu]

So I'm not that naïve after all... or rather, the naïvete lies in assumeing caiman to play by the rules...

[Claude]

Given that Caiman can get all the items they list except for the small minority of stuff that is OOP, I don't think their offers are misleading. If the item is not in stock, that doesn't mean the seller doesn't have the ability to sell.

We jazz fans may be more often in the situation where CDs have become hard to find, but on mainstream markets (pop music, movies) items going OOP is a much more rare situation. So if the seller fullfils the promise to get any item he lists in 99% of the cases, that's ok for me, especially if the prices are good.

As Caiman seems to work without stocks, it would be impossible for them to continuously check the availablility status of every item they list.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Claude

[robviti]

caveat emptor, operor non criminor

[Daniel A]

As Caiman seems to work without stocks, it would be impossible for them to continuously check the availablility status of every item they list.

I can see that. Still, what happened to me recently was that Caiman suddenly listed an item (on Amazon Marketplace UK as it were) which had previously not been available. Suddenly Caiman indicated it as "in stock" (which of course it wasn't, as they have no stock). So how do they suddenly decide that they will be able to get an item?

In the end, it costed me a dollar because of the varying exchange rates so it was no big deal, but still...

[Niko]

As Caiman seems to work without stocks, it would be impossible for them to continuously check the availablility status of every item they list.

I can see that. Still, what happened to me recently was that Caiman suddenly listed an item (on Amazon Marketplace UK as it were) which had previously not been available. Suddenly Caiman indicated it as "in stock" (which of course it wasn't, as they have no stock). So how do they suddenly decide that they will be able to get an item?

In the end, it costed me a dollar because of the varying exchange rates so it was no big deal, but still...

i also find that irritating, stuff like, Don Patterson's Dem New York Dues or Woody Shaw's Song of Songs, i ordered from them within the last six months after they put a NEW offer out for them, the cds never arrived i got my money back, the offer disappeared and came back a few weeks later, admittedly i didn't try to order again, but still, i really don't see the point of what they are doing (didn't read the whole thread) - do they want a credit without interest at the cost of making their seller rating worse? that said, i still order for them, i can afford giving free credit from time to time and when they do ship they have good prices...

edit to say, it seems all i wrote had been written before, but as there are still non-believers out there, why not; my experience with chmarche24 was good so far; most annoying experience was with cd-lp-dvd, took several emails to get my money back, but then when they deliver they are so fast (within germany) that i still use them anyway

Edited November 13, 2007 by Niko

[king ubu]

As Caiman seems to work without stocks, it would be impossible for them to continuously check the availablility status of every item they list.

I can see that. Still, what happened to me recently was that Caiman suddenly listed an item (on Amazon Marketplace UK as it were) which had previously not been available. Suddenly Caiman indicated it as "in stock" (which of course it wasn't, as they have no stock). So how do they suddenly decide that they will be able to get an item?

In the end, it costed me a dollar because of the varying exchange rates so it was no big deal, but still...

Yes, that's the point I criticise: why would they re-list items they should have never listed anyway?

I guess they sell their stuff to earn money, so I don't really agree that there's no way they can control... after the Fantasy/Concord debacle, for instance, they could have simply stopped listing all those discs. And even more so, after the first time they had been ordered and they weren't able to deliver, they could just delete their listing for good, instead of re-listing stuff again.

Quality control is the point... a site like ZVAB is the ideal, I assume. I recently ordered a book, and the first item I chose was already sold. Within two or three hours I got a mail (personal) from the selling book shop, apologising, explaining to me that the item had just sold before I ordered it. So I ordered it from another seller, my credit card was only charged once, from the seller that actually was able to deliver (well, as far as I'm aware, at least... I'll see when I get the bill).

[jlhoots]

I never buy from Caiman.

Don't need the aggravation.

Long live Newbury Comics.

[robviti]

As Caiman seems to work without stocks, it would be impossible for them to continuously check the availablility status of every item they list.

I can see that. Still, what happened to me recently was that Caiman suddenly listed an item (on Amazon Marketplace UK as it were) which had previously not been available. Suddenly Caiman indicated it as "in stock" (which of course it wasn't, as they have no stock). So how do they suddenly decide that they will be able to get an item?

In the end, it costed me a dollar because of the varying exchange rates so it was no big deal, but still...

perhaps caiman's distributors/warehouses list a title as in stock, but when it comes time to pull it for a sale, it isn't on the shelf. later, the distributor lists it as being available, and caiman naturally relists it. i agree it can be frustrating. regardless of where i am or what i'm buying, when the salesperson says: "it shows we have one (or even two) in stock," i hold my breath and hope, since inventory systems are rarely exact. an outfit as huge as caiman is bound to have this kind of problem in spades. that being said, i don't ever order out-of-print titles from them. i have enough disappointment and rejection in my love life.

p.s.

:tup

Edited November 13, 2007 by jazzshrink

[Ron S]

:tup

Yes, indeed!

Re Caiman: I'll order from them only if their price is significantly lower than the next lowest reputable seller's. And then, I'll give them only a few days to ship, and cancel if they don't. That significanly lowers the Caiman frustration factor.

[Dan Gould]

Re Caiman: I'll order from them only if their price is significantly lower than the next lowest reputable seller's. And then, I'll give them only a few days to ship, and cancel if they don't. That significanly lowers the Caiman frustration factor.

I think that Ron has it right, and that some people see rare OOP titles listed by Caiman and then get ticked off when they don't show up when the reality is that the listing should be taken with a grain of salt. Take the plunge, hope you get a shipping confirmation in a week or so or else cancel. Its not that difficult.

Not saying that is the sole cause of the anger expressed at Caiman, but it seems to be a big part of it.

[king ubu]

Re Caiman: I'll order from them only if their price is significantly lower than the next lowest reputable seller's. And then, I'll give them only a few days to ship, and cancel if they don't. That significanly lowers the Caiman frustration factor.

I think that Ron has it right, and that some people see rare OOP titles listed by Caiman and then get ticked off when they don't show up when the reality is that the listing should be taken with a grain of salt. Take the plunge, hope you get a shipping confirmation in a week or so or else cancel. Its not that difficult.

But that still doesn't justify their re-listing of items they'll never get!

[Niko]

Re Caiman: I'll order from them only if their price is significantly lower than the next lowest reputable seller's. And then, I'll give them only a few days to ship, and cancel if they don't. That significanly lowers the Caiman frustration factor.

I think that Ron has it right, and that some people see rare OOP titles listed by Caiman and then get ticked off when they don't show up when the reality is that the listing should be taken with a grain of salt. Take the plunge, hope you get a shipping confirmation in a week or so or else cancel. Its not that difficult.

But that still doesn't justify their re-listing of items they'll never get!

and it can't be that hard - even for a huge seller - to keep track of orders that were cancelled because of unavailability on their side... (at least sometimes it helps to keep the prices of other sellers relatively low i guess)

Edited November 13, 2007 by Niko

[LarryCurleyMoe]

I never buy from Caiman.

Don't need the aggravation.

Long live Newbury Comics.

Exactly!

Newbury Comics goes out of their way to give exceptional service and prices. Caiman, well, does just the opposite! Too many times I've ordered and never received - only to write them & find they didn't have stock in the first place. I also like importcds.com as an amazon seller - NEVER a screw up with the numerous orders I've placed.

[Ron S]

I never buy from Caiman.

Don't need the aggravation.

Long live Newbury Comics.

Exactly!

Newbury Comics goes out of their way to give exceptional service and prices. Caiman, well, does just the opposite! Too many times I've ordered and never received - only to write them & find they didn't have stock in the first place. I also like importcds.com as an amazon seller - NEVER a screw up with the numerous orders I've placed.

Agreed on importcds, and of course, Newbury Comics is THE BEST. Another Amazon Marketplace seller from which I've made a lot of good purchases is Moviemars. In my experience, those 3--Newbury, Moviemars, and importcds--are the best of the large-scale Marketplace sellers, with Newbury being a cut above the others.

[king ubu]

I just found out that Concord lists "Song of Songs" as "in stock" and does by now ship internationally, too...

http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/OJCCD-1893-2/

Will see, the caiman order (third for this item) will be cancelled again...

[Daniel A]

I just found out that Concord lists "Song of Songs" as "in stock" and does by now ship internationally, too...

Where did you learn this? Their site still says:

Does Concord ship to international addresses?

We are unable to accept or ship international orders at this time.

http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/faq.html

[king ubu]

Well, I was googling, got a link to the site, sent in my order, was able to choose little Switzerland... didn't check any info first and don't see any looking now... I just gave it a try and it did go ok.

[Daniel A]

Well, I was googling, got a link to the site, sent in my order, was able to choose little Switzerland... didn't check any info first and don't see any looking now... I just gave it a try and it did go ok.

Well, that's great! Just last night I discovered that they had some titles in stock which sell for twice as much on Amazon marketplace.

[king ubu]

Yes, a quick glance showed they have both Gil Mellé discs and most or all of the Gigi Gryce discs - those are supposed to be OOP for quite some time by now!

[king ubu]

My order has even shipped already! So they don't only cater international customers but they offer extremely fast service, too!

Quite a surprise, that coming from Concord!

[bertrand]

I investigated the Concord thing a while ago (i.e. I called).

1) They consolidated warehouses (remember that other thread) and found extra copies of some discontinued titles (it looks like almost all of them?). How many they have of each is anybody's guess. I was going to send a wish list to see who close to disappearing some of these are, but have yet to do so.

2) I made two orders. Shipping is free over $50; all titles shipped promptly.

3) The sale on the site ($3 or $4 off) was supposed to end 10/1, but is still ongoing.

If you want some of these OOP titles, now is the time to take the plunge. For some of the ones I got, the only other option was amazon market place at $50 a pop.

Bertrand.