Caiman.com on amazon Suspect cdrs sold as new.

[Jazztropic]

I am not sure but always thought that factory cds were silver or gold color, and blue green was a cdr blank.I recieved 2 import cds from amazon seller caiman.com marked new but were open and the cd has the same blue green hue as many cdr blanks I have seen.The Notes seem original.Anyone have any similar dealings?Or can some ones set me straight as to the legitamacy of these cds.They are DA music or Black Lion releases .

Thanks

[relyles]

Are DA and Black Lion UK companies? I only ask because of a similar experience of a Candid reissue I purchased (not on amazon, but from a local independent retailer) that the booklet and all the packaging appeared official, but the disc itself appeared to be a CDR with a label affixed. I sent and email to Candid inquiring, but never received a response.

[sidewinder]

Are DA and Black Lion UK companies? I

'Black Lion' is one of Alan Bates' (current owner of Candid ) imprints, in the days before he ran Candid. Never heard of 'DA' though.

[Claude]

DA Music ("Deutsche Austrophon") is a german label that has licensed some Black Lion recordings:

http://www.da-music.de/news/news.php3?sid=...;beitragnr=1532

The only DA Music CD I have (Archie Shepp "Montreux Two") was made at the german Pallas pressing plant and looks like a normal CD.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Claude

[Chuck Nessa]

DA owns Black Lion and Freedom. No current connection to Bates and Candid.

[relyles]

DA owns Black Lion and Freedom. No current connection to Bates and Candid.

Well there goes that theory.

[relyles]

Not upset, just wondering whether that is indeed how the recordings were pressed.

[Bluerein]

Same goes for Lyrita (an English high quality classical music label). They've restarted operation and the issues are also CD-r'ish. Official papaerwork and printing on the label side of the cd but green data side. Nothing to get upset about. I'm sure they will last a lifetime as well (when stored propperly, ie no direct sunlight).

[Claude]

please realize you are dealing with small companies making small runs of CDs. they are just being cheap and cutting some corners. nothing to get upset over.

I don't think DA, which belongs to the Pallas Group that also owns CD pressing plants, would be releasing CD-Rs.

[Ken Dryden]

If you're talking about the bottom side of the discs being green, I'd be concerned. Contact them and don't hesitate to contact your credit card company if they give you the runaround.

[analogak]

there is nothing to be concerned about. jesus.

caiman is shady anyway. should be avoided.

[Ron S]

Check out this thread regarding certain labels issuing titles on CDRs:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36728

If you've gotten CDRs from Caiman, that's probably the way they came from the manufacturer. I've purchased probably hundreds of CDs from Caiman over the years, and never received anything other than actual genuine label issues. The only complaint I've ever seen about Caiman--and I've had this problem, myself--is that they often list titles for sale when they or their suppliers don't actually have them in stock. I've NEVER seen a complaint about the quality or genuineness of the actual product once it's received. Caiman's pretty good about returns, however, if you don't want to keep the CDs (or CDRs, or whatever they are).

Also, it's not uncommon for European CDs, although brand-new, to not be wrapped or sealed--that's the way they come from the manufacturer. For example, I've purchased several brand-new European Blue Note CDs from various on line retailers that were not wrapped or sealed.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Ron S

[brownie]

there is nothing to be concerned about. jesus.

caiman is shady anyway. should be avoided.

I have to disagree!

Caiman is just about my sole source for internet purchase of CDs by now. Tried other sources. Caiman is the most reliable.

Like their pricing and their shipping.

I have had no problem with them whatsoever.

[neveronfriday]

there is nothing to be concerned about. jesus.

caiman is shady anyway. should be avoided.

I have to disagree!

Caiman is just about my sole source for internet purchase of CDs by now. Tried other sources. Caiman is the most reliable.

Like their pricing and their shipping.

I have had no problem with them whatsoever.

Same here.

Caiman prices can't be beat.

I've bought tons of CDs that were less than half price when compared to the corresponding Amazon.de price. I do find it strange that Amazon allows this kind of price policy right under their nose(s), even if they get a cut from each sale. I mean, I'd have to look for quite a while for a CD on Amazon.com that isn't a massive amount cheaper via Caiman (even with the 3 Euro shipping fee). I don't know how much money I've saved due to Caiman, but I guess I can basically buy two CDs for the price of one.

BTW: As far as I recall, I've never received anything but genuine CDs from Caiman. Also: Besides one single purchase, they have been more reliable than even Amazon themselves. In one instance I had to ask what happened to a CD i had bought months before (and forgotten about). Caiman refunded the money pretty much as soon as they received my mail. That time I thought they should have done that automatically when they realized they couldn't deliever and not, as they did, wait for a complaint. Other than that, faultless - albeit a bit too slow at times.

[Bluerein]

Good to hear more people like Caiman. I've had no problems with them either. When a cd is damaged they replace it without questions asked and I don't even have to send the damaged one back....!!!!

[king ubu]

I have reported already but I repeat again that I have to - alas - disagree with all these positive opinions on Caiman. Countless times (certainly 10 times!) in this year, they did NOT deliver items they listed. They did NEVER give me back my money without me either cancelling the order or dropping them a mail. I still have one order open (for Woody Shaw's "Song of Songs" or whatsitcalledagain, third attempt with Caiman for that item, third time non-delivery). So I agree with them being called "shady", as they seem to regularly list items as available that they do NOT actually have in stock. That is bad business, or at least bad service of their databases/warehouses. And it sucks. And when I complained by mail, all I got back was a mail I could always use the cancellation-function on their website to get my money back - so add superb customer service to the list, too... I have tried to avoid ordering anything from them if other marketplace sellers have the same item listed, too. And the only thing they actually did deliver in recent months took a month or so to arrive, which is far too long for the shipping prizes you have with international orders on Amazon.

[Daniel A]

As posted elsewhere on the forum I've had the same experience as Ubu.

[neveronfriday]

they waste your time in the amazon marketplace by consistently offering items they cannot deliver on.

In my world that's mostly a repetuating myth. I've ordered close to a thousand off them and can't recall a single one that was unavailable (when they started out that time, there were complaints, but lately I haven't heard much). I've ordered across the board, more obscure jazz releases, blues, classical, etc.

[king ubu]

I'm sorry, but that's no myth. Their delivery rate is probably only slightly better than 50% with my orders, which total - I guess - at 25-30, only. And they're not very likely to get many more orders from me.

[neveronfriday]

I guess it really depends what you order. I just had a look at the amazon.de rating and the comments re: not available items have dwindled to approximately 1 in 50, often a lot less. I think that's quite good when compared to their early days. I guess everyone's mileage will vary here.

[king ubu]

Yes, probably it was bad luck on my side, but I can't afford their practice to just take the money first... I know all Amazon sellers do it that way, but it still sucks! Would be a lot nicer if these marketplace orders were being handled the same way normal amazon orders are: you pay once they fill in your order only. I wouldn't be nearly as outspoken about my negative experience with Caiman if that were the case.

[brownie]

Yes, probably it was bad luck on my side

Wouldn't that be because you ordered too many Funny Rats through them?

[king ubu]

Yes, probably it was bad luck on my side

Wouldn't that be because you ordered too many Funny Rats through them?

nope only mainstreamish stuff, including recent discs they were unable to deliver...

[Big Beat Steve]

King Ubu, what is your experience with Amazon marketplace seller MARCHE_24?

They are based in Switzerland so I figure you might have tried them.

I tried them once on a book listed a being widely available but their service was abysmal. First they said the item had been shipped then they said it might perhaps been overlooked and not been shipped after all or a mistake due to non-availability might have happened. During the numerous e-mails I had to exchange with them until I finally (quite a bit later) got my money back each time sobody else replied and always started from scratch in their statements as if they had not been aware of my previous mails.

It all sounded like another case of Caimanitis to me...

[king ubu]

King Ubu, what is your experience with Amazon marketplace seller MARCHE_24?

They are based in Switzerland so I figure you might have tried them.

I tried them once on a book listed a being widely available but their service was abysmal. First they said the item had been shipped then they said it might perhaps been overlooked and not been shipped after all or a mistake due to non-availability might have happened. During the numerous e-mails I had to exchange with them until I finally (quite a bit later) got my money back each time sobody else replied and always started from scratch in their statements as if they had not been aware of my previous mails.

It all sounded like another case of Caimanitis to me...

I think I've had one bad experience with them, but not nearly as bad as you describe I just got my money back after a while, no mails needed)... however, I stay away from them, too. And even if the'yre swiss, the shipping charge is the usual 6 euro for European marketplace orders, so there's no reason to prefer them to others, gladly!