2007 Hot Stove League Thread

[alocispepraluger102]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, the culmination of a four-year federal investigation into whether he lied under oath to a grand jury looking into steroid use by elite athletes.

[Dan Gould]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, the culmination of a four-year federal investigation into whether he lied under oath to a grand jury looking into steroid use by elite athletes.

I think we need to re-post this in the Barry Bonds thread.

But in the meantime ... calling Goodspeak!

Our long national nightmare is over!

[Dan Gould]

Looks like A-Rod and the Yanks have an agreement in principle on a ten year/275 million dollar contract. I still can't believe that anyone would give him 27.5 million a year til he is 42 - there's just no way this contract isn't an albatross with at least three years to go - but now A-Rod gets to stay a Yankee and exceed his previous record-breaking contract by about 20 million, Boras gets his 30% or whatever, and the Yankees aren't looking at a gigantic hole in their offense.

They'll just be looking at a gigantic hole in their budget by the time A-Rod finishes.

[Tim McG]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, the culmination of a four-year federal investigation into whether he lied under oath to a grand jury looking into steroid use by elite athletes.

I think we need to re-post this in the Barry Bonds thread.

But in the meantime ... calling Goodspeak!

Our long national nightmare is over!

National nightmare....wha-?

Is Gee Dumbya stealing another election?

[Matthew]

Looks like A-Rod and the Yanks have an agreement in principle on a ten year/275 million dollar contract. I still can't believe that anyone would give him 27.5 million a year til he is 42 - there's just no way this contract isn't an albatross with at least three years to go - but now A-Rod gets to stay a Yankee and exceed his previous record-breaking contract by about 20 million, Boras gets his 30% or whatever, and the Yankees aren't looking at a gigantic hole in their offense.

They'll just be looking at a gigantic hole in their budget by the time A-Rod finishes.

I would like to someday read the real story behind what happened to ARod in the past month. Thinking about it, the Yankees took a huge financial hit because before, Texas was paying a lot of ARod's salary, now the Yankees are on the hook for the whole amount. The whole saga strikes me as strange -- I have a strange feeling that at the winter meeting, when the GM's "shared" their visions of what their teams needed, that somehow it was communicated that no one was going after ARod, so the Yankees had a smooth path to resign ARod. Still, I see trouble for ARod in New York, and I do not expect to see ARod in a Yankee uniform in five years, much less ten.

[Dan Gould]

Looks like A-Rod and the Yanks have an agreement in principle on a ten year/275 million dollar contract. I still can't believe that anyone would give him 27.5 million a year til he is 42 - there's just no way this contract isn't an albatross with at least three years to go - but now A-Rod gets to stay a Yankee and exceed his previous record-breaking contract by about 20 million, Boras gets his 30% or whatever, and the Yankees aren't looking at a gigantic hole in their offense.

They'll just be looking at a gigantic hole in their budget by the time A-Rod finishes.

I would like to someday read the real story behind what happened to ARod in the past month. Thinking about it, the Yankees took a huge financial hit because before, Texas was paying a lot of ARod's salary, now the Yankees are on the hook for the whole amount. The whole saga strikes me as strange -- I have a strange feeling that at the winter meeting, when the GM's "shared" their visions of what their teams needed, that somehow it was communicated that no one was going after ARod, so the Yankees had a smooth path to resign ARod. Still, I see trouble for ARod in New York, and I do not expect to see ARod in a Yankee uniform in five years, much less ten.

If the word out of Tampa is to be believed, the Yankees were prepared to pay about 295 million over ten years, and when they chopped off the 20 million or so that Alex was responsible for them losing from Texas, you get the 275 million. I now wonder what the incentives are (they are supposedly related to breaking the all-time home run record (would be interesting if by the time he is in striking distance, the target is 755 again).

But what is clear to me is that without receiving a single offer from anywhere else, Alex got an enormous payday, bigger than the original contract. Did the Yankees communicate to him that if he came and made amends, they'd still take care of him? Why wouldn't they play at least a little hard ball, and offer him ten years and two hundred million, or ten years and 225? No one was going to beat that. It really looks to me like Boras found his idiot owner to offer that much cash for a guy who will be 39 when the deal is only 70% done. I honestly don't think anyone was going near ten years or going to touch 25 million in average yearly value, so why did the Yanks go ten and 275? Its really nuts.

On the other hand, while I agree that it is likely that he'll continue to have trouble in New York, I believe he will be there for the duration. No one can take on that salary. Most teams max out with one player around 1/2 of A-Rod's salary. How much would the Yankees have to pay if they wanted to get rid of him, and why would you think that he won't insist on a no-trade clause again?

[alocispepraluger102]

surprise. surprise.

boras is drafting the contract.

here's betting it has no clauses about penalties for steroid use.

what if the yankees owe 300 million and arod(rhymes with aloc) tests positive?

this is what the yankees deserve.

after all, the rod was hitting numbers at an alarming pace for a tad last season.

is this why the deal is so rushed?

yankees may be among the biggest suckers on the planet and may be on the road to ruin.

Edited November 16, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[Dan Gould]

surprise. surprise.

boras is drafting the contract.

here's betting it has no clauses about penalties for steroid use.

what if the yankees owe 300 million and arod(rhymes with aloc) tests positive?

this is what the yankees deserve.

after all, the rod was hitting numbers at an alarming pace for a tad last season.

is this why the deal is so rushed?

yankees may be among the biggest suckers on the planet and may be on the road to ruin.

I really can't believe I am reading this.

First, are you offering surprise that Boras is drafting the contract, or only surprise at the fact that an agreement in principle has been reached? Because if it is about Boras, you should know that by the terms of the Player's Agreement, no club can mandate that a player not use a particular agent, or be denied representation during the drafting a contract. Had the reports been true that A-Rod was told "no Boras in the room" then the Yankees would have been subject to penalty once the Player's Union raised a stink.

Second, there can be no provision for steroid testing or penalties for positive tests. These are covered in the PA and no individual player's contract can supersede what the player's union has agreed to when it comes to testing for PEDs and amphetamines and the penalties that will result from a positive test.

[alocispepraluger102]

surprise. surprise.

boras is drafting the contract.

here's betting it has no clauses about penalties for steroid use.

what if the yankees owe 300 million and arod(rhymes with aloc) tests positive?

this is what the yankees deserve.

after all, the rod was hitting numbers at an alarming pace for a tad last season.

is this why the deal is so rushed?

yankees may be among the biggest suckers on the planet and may be on the road to ruin.

I really can't believe I am reading this.

First, are you offering surprise that Boras is drafting the contract, or only surprise at the fact that an agreement in principle has been reached? Because if it is about Boras, you should know that by the terms of the Player's Agreement, no club can mandate that a player not use a particular agent, or be denied representation during the drafting a contract. Had the reports been true that A-Rod was told "no Boras in the room" then the Yankees would have been subject to penalty once the Player's Union raised a stink.

Second, there can be no provision for steroid testing or penalties for positive tests. These are covered in the PA and no individual player's contract can supersede what the player's union has agreed to when it comes to testing for PEDs and amphetamines and the penalties that will result from a positive test.

boras spots and hustles suckers like few others.

early reports of this affair indicated rod had blown off boras.

i am indeed aware that agents are mandated.

i much appreciate your more than considerable savvy in these baseball affairs. thanks.

Edited November 16, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[alocispepraluger102]

it is time to say "goodbye" to the old lefthander, whose baseball broadcasts of the reds i have listened to for 40 years.

joe's broadcasts were always fun and exciting, and with his buddy, marty brenneman, they made an incomparable broadcast team.

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story.a...d4-763c5702c50b

and

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/apps/p...ATES01/71116012

Edited November 16, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[papsrus]

Very entertaining and informative thread!

A-Rod is a great player. I hope he's happy in New York and hope they all have a satisfying season. My dream is that they lose to the Dodgers in the World Series (not gonna happen, but ....).

I would think that for most fans of your regular run-of-the-mill (or worse) teams, this obsession with A-Rod is kind of a freak show. I heard the Angels owner say (half-jokingly) last night that he was prepared to offer A-Rod about half of what the Yankees offered him. So really, there's only two or three teams that would even consider the guy. He ended up back with the Yankees because they're the only ones who will overpay him.

I'd rather watch the D-Rays develop young talent and beat the big bad Yankees and Red Sox two-out-of three when they come to town. (OK, that's kind of rare, but still. It's more satisfying than booing a $275-million player all season long.)

[alocispepraluger102]

the budget concious indians smiting the yankees this year was a magnificent pleasure.

[papsrus]

the budget concious indians smiting the yankees this year was a magnificent pleasure.

Precisely. Indians had a great year. Gave their fans a great ride. Disappointing in the end, but the fans will be back cheering next year for bigger and better things. It's kind of pathetic that Yankees fans consider anything but a string of World Series titles to be a complete failure. And that the reaction of the club is to start dumping buckets of cash on the open market.

Does anyone know anything about the Steinbrenner sons? Are they competent?

[Patrick]

Mentally?

[papsrus]

Mentally?

Hehe. ... sure. But do they have any business sense, or just that pile of cash? Obviously, there is some sense of urgency with the new stadium and all, but what about 3-4-5 years down the line? This team is going to need a major facelift sooner rather than later, no? It must be close to the oldest roster in baseball.

[Matthew]

Mentally?

Hehe. ... sure. But do they have any business sense, or just that pile of cash? Obviously, there is some sense of urgency with the new stadium and all, but what about 3-4-5 years down the line? This team is going to need a major facelift sooner rather than later, no? It must be close to the oldest roster in baseball.

Plus their starting rotation is going to be another mess next year, and I think Rivera is definitely going down hill in effectiveness. Old players, on the downside of their careers, sounds like they're looking at the Mariners as a model.

[Quincy]

Plus their starting rotation is going to be another mess next year, and I think Rivera is definitely going down hill in effectiveness. Old players, on the downside of their careers, sounds like they're looking at the Mariners as a model.

At least those rumors of that certain somebody-who-shall-go-nameless as the DH probably won't be happening. Whew!

[Matthew]

Plus their starting rotation is going to be another mess next year, and I think Rivera is definitely going down hill in effectiveness. Old players, on the downside of their careers, sounds like they're looking at the Mariners as a model.

At least those rumors of that certain somebody-who-shall-go-nameless as the DH probably won't be happening. Whew!

Now, that would have been some clubhouse!

The ARod saga just gets stranger and stranger, this from AP:

NEW YORK -- Warren Buffett advised Alex Rodriguez to approach the New York Yankees and go around agent Scott Boras, The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday.

The newspaper cited a person familiar with the matter, whom it did not identify.

"A-Rod really loves being a Yankee," Buffett was quoted as saying. He wouldn't comment on the substance of any discussions with the player.

The two became friends several years ago.

Rodriguez, on Boras' advise, opted out of the final three seasons of his record $252 million, 10-year contract on Oct. 28. The Yankees had said many times that if he opted out, they wouldn't negotiate because they would lose $21.3 million from Texas for the final three seasons that was agreed to at the time of the 2004 trade, money to offset the $72 million New York owed from 2008-10.

Upset with developments after he opted out, Rodriguez contacted Buffett, and the investor told him to approach the Yankees without his agent, the Journal said.

After speaking with the investor, Rodriguez contacted a managing director at Goldman Sachs that he knew, John Mallory, who then got in touch with Gerald Cardinale, a Goldman Sachs managing director who has worked with the Yankees and their YES Network.

With the assistance of the two Goldman executives, Rodriguez and the Yankees negotiated a $275 million, 10-year contract that is in the process of being finalized.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

So, former employees of the Yankees helped ARod to meet the Yankees without his agent? Huh, no tampering there.....

[Tim McG]

Giants re-signed RHP Tyler Walker to a one-year deal.

[heaviest of sighs]

Baby steps.

[Quincy]

How to raise your value in a few easy sentences (along with a lot of time in the gym), blurb from Baseball Musings:

''This winter, I'm really going to work on my physical condition in order to be in the best shape possible for spring training,'' Cabrera told LasMayores.com. ``I've been at it for four weeks now at a gym that specializes in professional athletes, and I'll be there until the spring.

''I'll keep at it in order to get to spring training in the best shape possible, to have the best season possible for the team I end up on,'' he said.

He also says he's willing to move to the outfield or first base. I'm guessing he wants out of the Marlins as soon as possible, and is doing everything to raise his value."

Full Miami Herald story here.

Glad to see he's paying attention to health & nutrition, as he has a chance to be one of the all-time greats.

[alocispepraluger102]

he has learned well.

jaba (buggy)chamberlain was in westchester today selling his autograph for $150/per.

the article did not state whether the facili ty had been cleaned of flying insects.

Edited November 19, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[Dan Gould]

Interesting breaking news, from expected to least expected:

Glavine returns to the Braves, for 1 year and 8 million

Was pretty much expected that this would happen, I have to wonder though whether Glavine has reached the end of the line with his slop. When he can't get that outside pitch called a strike, he tends to get hammered. But it makes sense to return to Atlanta for one more go round, and the Braves upgrade the rotation at minimal cost.

Lowell about to re-sign with Red Sox for three years/around 37 million

I am most pleased with the fact that Theo didn't have to add a fourth year. Hitting at Fenway, I expect that he can continue to produce above his career norms for the duration of the contract but at the same time, I have to somewhat regret that this takes us out of the running for Miguel Cabrera (I have to assume that the team decided that they need to save their bullets for a run at Johan Santana). Which leads me to the least expected bit of news:

Angels trade Orlando Cabrera and cash to the Chisox for Jon Garland

The Angels must be ready to go all-in for Miguel, because by trading O-Cab, they've put a significant hole in a lineup that already had offensive issues. I really can't figure out why they did it, since the Angels are pretty solid in the starting rotation, too. Garland only figures to give you league-average innings (and lots of them); if the Angels fail to get Cabrera from the Marlins, they've got even bigger problems in the lineup, with A-Rod off the board too. Do they overpay for Torri Hunter or Andruw Jones? Don't they already have an over-priced CF from last year's free agent class?

[Quincy]

Angels trade Orlando Cabrera and cash to the Chisox for Jon Garland

The Angels must be ready to go all-in for Miguel, because by trading O-Cab, they've put a significant hole in a lineup that already had offensive issues. I really can't figure out why they did it, since the Angels are pretty solid in the starting rotation, too. Garland only figures to give you league-average innings (and lots of them); if the Angels fail to get Cabrera from the Marlins, they've got even bigger problems in the lineup, with A-Rod off the board too. Do they overpay for Torri Hunter or Andruw Jones? Don't they already have an over-priced CF from last year's free agent class?

Not sure why you say they have to get a poor fielding great slugging 3rd baseman to replace a SS who hits for average but not power. They've got a kid named Sean Rodriguez who has a bit of pop who they've probably figured is a cheaper alternative at SS. And if he doesn't work out, there's always Figgins. This isn't to say they won't try to make a play for Miguel, it's just the Angels use the farm to feed positions when they can & that may be what they're doing.

I think it's also a sign that they have questions about 4 & 5 starters Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders, and rightfully so. Santana took a big step back, with a road ERA over 8 and he missed some starts as well. Perhaps the loss of Bud Black as pitching coach is to partially to blame. Garland has never excited me, but for the past 6 years he's made at least 32 starts, and has 4 years in a row of over 200 innings. Probably better to spend 10 million on that kind of pitching than 8.5 million on Orlando Cabrera.

[Dan Gould]

Angels trade Orlando Cabrera and cash to the Chisox for Jon Garland

The Angels must be ready to go all-in for Miguel, because by trading O-Cab, they've put a significant hole in a lineup that already had offensive issues. I really can't figure out why they did it, since the Angels are pretty solid in the starting rotation, too. Garland only figures to give you league-average innings (and lots of them); if the Angels fail to get Cabrera from the Marlins, they've got even bigger problems in the lineup, with A-Rod off the board too. Do they overpay for Torri Hunter or Andruw Jones? Don't they already have an over-priced CF from last year's free agent class?

Not sure why you say they have to get a poor fielding great slugging 3rd baseman to replace a SS who hits for average but not power. They've got a kid named Sean Rodriguez who has a bit of pop who they've probably figured is a cheaper alternative at SS. And if he doesn't work out, there's always Figgins. This isn't to say they won't try to make a play for Miguel, it's just the Angels use the farm to feed positions when they can & that may be what they're doing.

I think it's also a sign that they have questions about 4 & 5 starters Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders, and rightfully so. Santana took a big step back, with a road ERA over 8 and he missed some starts as well. Perhaps the loss of Bud Black as pitching coach is to partially to blame. Garland has never excited me, but for the past 6 years he's made at least 32 starts, and has 4 years in a row of over 200 innings. Probably better to spend 10 million on that kind of pitching than 8.5 million on Orlando Cabrera.

Well my point was that they gave away one of the few bright spots in a profoundly mediocre offense, and while I did not know if they had someone to replace him in the system, I'd be surprised if this kid plays as well. O-Cab scored 100 runs and drove in over 85. Pretty good numbers for a rookie to replace. And isn't Figgins best suited to the "super-sub" role? I thought that he isn't exactly great when he plays every day at one spot. I do think you make a good point about the 4-5 pitchers. Garland is a better alternative, certainly. Let Saunders and Santana fight it out for the number 5 spot.

[Quincy]

Well my point was that they gave away one of the few bright spots in a profoundly mediocre offense, and while I did not know if they had someone to replace him in the system, I'd be surprised if this kid plays as well. O-Cab scored 100 runs and drove in over 85. Pretty good numbers for a rookie to replace. And isn't Figgins best suited to the "super-sub" role? I thought that he isn't exactly great when he plays every day at one spot. I do think you make a good point about the 4-5 pitchers. Garland is a better alternative, certainly. Let Saunders and Santana fight it out for the number 5 spot.

Ends up the youngster named to eventually replace Cabrera is a kid named Wood. But they also have Izturis, and the kid I mentioned, and even a couple of other bodies so they wouldn't have to start super-sub Figgins there. So they can throw a lot of wet noodles at the wall & see what sticks! Cabrera has really upped his OBP & hitting the past 2 years. Good thing y'all won another WS, otherwise you'd hear more of the "why did you get rid of him" talk. But the Angels have been very good about developing talent, especially in the infield, and letting the more expensive option go away via free agency (Eckstein) or a trade in this case while the guy has value has happened enough in recent years to almost be called "the Angels way." Cabrera's batting average with runners on & other clutch measures were lights out last year, but if you look at other recent years that hasn't been the case. I think to a certain degree the RBI total was just one of things that's unlikely to be replicated (especially for a sub .400 slugger). Plus Cabrera being involved in big trades is habit forming!

It's early too, so there may be more trades & signings to come. They also didn't get much out of Juan Rivera or one of their young third basemen last year due to injuries, and Matthews wasn't available for the playoffs, and Kendrick will just be 25 next year and will likely improve some more, so I don't things are that dire offensively.