2007 Hot Stove League Thread

[HolyStitt]

At the very least Coco matches Hunter defensively, and would probably get a significant boost as a speedster hitting on artificial turf. He's also highly affordable, locked up for something like three years and 18 million or so.

Coco is affordable to most teams but I can't imagine the Twins feeling that way. For a while the Twins have been stating in the press that they have a surplus of outfielders, either coming through the system or at the majors, so I can't imagine they would be excited or interested in the numbers in Coco's contract. Unless of course he was a player thrown with a large mix of prospects nowhere near free agency.

On the other hand, maybe they keep publically stating that they have a surplus of outfield prospects so people in town will think they know what they are doing when they let Hunter go.

[HolyStitt]

Why would you want to pay $30 Million a season to "Mr.April" ???? Especially after this play....

I agree, minus the purse of course!

Seriously, this play in the 2004 ALCS, the play earlier this year when he yelled "got it," and his post season numbers are all I think of when I hear all of the hype.

... but then again this is coming from the fan of a team that's collective payroll a few years back was below $30 million.

[Patrick]

Hey good luck with that, unloading a CF that can't hit much, and the team doesn't want, a 3rd or 4th starter type, and a 6th/7th inning guy should get you Santana! Man, and I thought Braves writers and fans were unrealistic when it came to possible trades!

At the very least Coco matches Hunter defensively, and would probably get a significant boost as a speedster hitting on artificial turf. He's also highly affordable, locked up for something like three years and 18 million or so. Hansen remains only 23 years old and could very well replace the Twins closer in a year, since Nathan is the next one to leave for greener pastures. Manny Delcarmen is also regarded as having the best "pure stuff" on the entire Red Sox staff, and Masterson happens to be someone that Tony Gwynn coached at San Diego State and regards as a future ace.

Its hardly offering table scraps for Santana.

And where were you when your team unloaded Renteria for a couple of prospects?

I am a Coco fan, but Crisp's best attribute is his current salary. Not sure how great his arm is compared to Hunter--stats suggest he has similar or better range in the field, but he is a much much weaker power hitter. Not sure that moving from Fenway to Minnesota will help his SLG, or that his BA won't diminish when he's not part of that stacked Bosox lineup.

[BERIGAN]

Hey good luck with that, unloading a CF that can't hit much, and the team doesn't want, a 3rd or 4th starter type, and a 6th/7th inning guy should get you Santana! Man, and I thought Braves writers and fans were unrealistic when it came to possible trades!

At the very least Coco matches Hunter defensively, and would probably get a significant boost as a speedster hitting on artificial turf. He's also highly affordable, locked up for something like three years and 18 million or so. Hansen remains only 23 years old and could very well replace the Twins closer in a year, since Nathan is the next one to leave for greener pastures. Manny Delcarmen is also regarded as having the best "pure stuff" on the entire Red Sox staff, and Masterson happens to be someone that Tony Gwynn coached at San Diego State and regards as a future ace.

Its hardly offering table scraps for Santana.

And where were you when your team unloaded Renteria for a couple of prospects?

Just to keep things clear(I need names in front of me while I post! )you first said,

I think I'd do something along the lines of Coco/Hansen/MDC/Masterson but the Twins would probably insist on Ellsbury and/or Lester/Buchholz. It would certainly take a king's ransom, the question is would it be worth it. Stay tuned.

Then Zen said,

They wont move Ellsbury !!!!!!....the talk by Sean McAdam is Coco, Lester.Hansen or DelCarmen for Santana !

I agree, if you take his arm out of the equation, Coco is the best CF in the game....but, he doesn't hit much, and was benched during the WS. The Twins already had a lousy offense, and going from Hunter to Coco isn't going to help matters. as for Hansen, he's almost 24, and and has a career ERA of 6.59(Granted, he didn't pitch last year for the big club) MDC, has good stuff, but hell, the lowly braves have 4-5 relievers who hit 95-96 on a nightly basis. Masterson looks to be pretty good...but, he's not your top starting prospect.

Zen said, no way they move Ellsbury. and the talk is Coco, Lester, Hansen or DelClarmen.

And who is Santana??? Not only a very durable pitcher, but the best starter in the game, over the past 4-5 years! And it sounds like you all are not willing to give up either your best starting prospect, or OF prospect for him! Twins have tons of starting pitching in the minors, and will get Francisco Liriano back next year as well. They need offense, if they want to compete in '08.

Plus, Santana would win 20+ every year with your offense! A rotation of Beckett, Santana, Dice-K and Schilling=WS win #3 next year, and probably the next after that even without Schilling. Dan, to be fair, you did say it would take a King's Ransom.

You guys are starting to truly morph into the Yankees! Only half kidding there! Every team is there to serve as a farm club for you guys. You'd trade(and pay his full contract) or release Lugo and his rather large contract if you could get A-Rod for 30 mil. I am only going to root for the Devil Rays from now on, since the Sox are winners now, it's no fun for an underdogger like me anymore!

Edited October 31, 2007 by BERIGAN

[BERIGAN]

And where were you when your team unloaded Renteria for a couple of prospects?

I was right here, in front of my computer, why do you ask????

Oh, you mean, how do I feel about it??? Pretty good after I got time to digest it. At first it sounded like we jumped the gun, without hearing what other trades we could make with him. Many a braves fan thought Shaun Marcum would be a nice guy to pick up in a trade for Edgar. Apparently, the Blue Jays would rather keep a really good, young, cheap starter. -_-

Jurrjens was first reported as a low 90's guy with excellent control. Well, our top "prospect" is a left handed version of that. Like I mentioned above, we have all sorts of hard throwing relievers, and all sorts of starters who can't break a pane of glass with their "hard" stuff. But, someone posted a link showing him pitching for the tigers, hitting 94-95, and a lot of us felt better about it. Plus, he's only 21. We also got Gorkys Hernandez(How's that for a name?) an outfielder who just turned 20 in Sept, and hit .293 in A ball, with 54 steals. Since we gave up half the farm club for a rental player like Texiera, we did need to restock a bit.

Edgar was very good here, we heard nothing but good things from other players, management....helped out his replacement, Yunel Escobar out in many ways. It's tough to give up a guy who hit .332 last year, but he's 32, and just had his best year...and we are loaded to the gills with middle infielders, so it really was a no brainer. Still, I'd say the fans I have seen on the AJC (Newspaper) blog, is 60-40 in favor, but those against it, are really against it, and thought we should have kept him, for a run for it all in '08. Somehow, those folks think adding Glavine was all we really needed to do, and is somehow going to make a big difference, if/when we sign him.

Edited October 31, 2007 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Hey good luck with that, unloading a CF that can't hit much, and the team doesn't want, a 3rd or 4th starter type, and a 6th/7th inning guy should get you Santana! Man, and I thought Braves writers and fans were unrealistic when it came to possible trades!

At the very least Coco matches Hunter defensively, and would probably get a significant boost as a speedster hitting on artificial turf. He's also highly affordable, locked up for something like three years and 18 million or so. Hansen remains only 23 years old and could very well replace the Twins closer in a year, since Nathan is the next one to leave for greener pastures. Manny Delcarmen is also regarded as having the best "pure stuff" on the entire Red Sox staff, and Masterson happens to be someone that Tony Gwynn coached at San Diego State and regards as a future ace.

Its hardly offering table scraps for Santana.

And where were you when your team unloaded Renteria for a couple of prospects?

I am a Coco fan, but Crisp's best attribute is his current salary. Not sure how great his arm is compared to Hunter--stats suggest he has similar or better range in the field, but he is a much much weaker power hitter. Not sure that moving from Fenway to Minnesota will help his SLG, or that his BA won't diminish when he's not part of that stacked Bosox lineup.

Coco worked on a new higher arm slot last spring and it definitely seemed to help this season - on the other hand, I've never really thought about Hunter when it comes to his arm, I imagine it is better than Coco's (or Jacoby's for that matter) but I would say in playmaking skill, Coco and Torri are equivalent.

Moving to Minnesota could help his slugging to the extent that he gets more groundballs through the hole that he turns into doubles and line drives in the gap that skip past the defense because of the turf and go for triples. Plus the overall dimensions are smaller - Coco hitting righty could turn around a fastball and hit out in Minny what would likely be a double at Fenway. And I really don't understand why you think his BA was artificially elevated in the Boston lineup. Beyond the fact that he hit eighth or ninth most of the year, since when does BA get effected by lineups? I thought things like RBIs, runs scored, maybe OBP are effected by lineup, but BA??? BA is about the only truly "personal" statistic a batter has.

[Dan Gould]

Curt Schilling wrote "goodbye letters" to several members of the team yesterday and the Globe is reporting that according to a team source, it is "unlikely" that they will bring him back, unless he is open to a lower base salary (plus a lot of incentives) than the 13 million he wants. The source also indicated that Wakefield's option would be picked up.

Meanwhile Schill has posted the names of the teams that he and his family regard as good "fits" if he doesn't get what he wants from Boston:

Cleveland, Detroit, Anaheim, New York Mets, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, Arizona, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis, Milwaukee.

[HolyStitt]

Curt Schilling wrote "goodbye letters" to several members of the team yesterday and the Globe is reporting that according to a team source, it is "unlikely" that they will bring him back, unless he is open to a lower base salary (plus a lot of incentives) than the 13 million he wants. The source also indicated that Wakefield's option would be picked up.

Meanwhile Schill has posted the names of the teams that he and his family regard as good "fits" if he doesn't get what he wants from Boston:

Cleveland, Detroit, Anaheim, New York Mets, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, Arizona, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis, Milwaukee.

I didn't realize a good fit for the family was code for a city that has a team that has a decent chance of making it to the playoffs!

[Dan Gould]

Curt Schilling wrote "goodbye letters" to several members of the team yesterday and the Globe is reporting that according to a team source, it is "unlikely" that they will bring him back, unless he is open to a lower base salary (plus a lot of incentives) than the 13 million he wants. The source also indicated that Wakefield's option would be picked up.

Meanwhile Schill has posted the names of the teams that he and his family regard as good "fits" if he doesn't get what he wants from Boston:

Cleveland, Detroit, Anaheim, New York Mets, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, Arizona, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis, Milwaukee.

I didn't realize a good fit for the family was code for a city that has a team that has a decent chance of making it to the playoffs!

Well, he's said all along that is the first consideration. He only said that he'd consider a team that wasn't an obvious candidate for the playoffs if it had a lot of young pitchers that he could mentor.

[Patrick]

Hey good luck with that, unloading a CF that can't hit much, and the team doesn't want, a 3rd or 4th starter type, and a 6th/7th inning guy should get you Santana! Man, and I thought Braves writers and fans were unrealistic when it came to possible trades!

At the very least Coco matches Hunter defensively, and would probably get a significant boost as a speedster hitting on artificial turf. He's also highly affordable, locked up for something like three years and 18 million or so. Hansen remains only 23 years old and could very well replace the Twins closer in a year, since Nathan is the next one to leave for greener pastures. Manny Delcarmen is also regarded as having the best "pure stuff" on the entire Red Sox staff, and Masterson happens to be someone that Tony Gwynn coached at San Diego State and regards as a future ace.

Its hardly offering table scraps for Santana.

And where were you when your team unloaded Renteria for a couple of prospects?

I am a Coco fan, but Crisp's best attribute is his current salary. Not sure how great his arm is compared to Hunter--stats suggest he has similar or better range in the field, but he is a much much weaker power hitter. Not sure that moving from Fenway to Minnesota will help his SLG, or that his BA won't diminish when he's not part of that stacked Bosox lineup.

Coco worked on a new higher arm slot last spring and it definitely seemed to help this season - on the other hand, I've never really thought about Hunter when it comes to his arm, I imagine it is better than Coco's (or Jacoby's for that matter) but I would say in playmaking skill, Coco and Torri are equivalent.

Moving to Minnesota could help his slugging to the extent that he gets more groundballs through the hole that he turns into doubles and line drives in the gap that skip past the defense because of the turf and go for triples. Plus the overall dimensions are smaller - Coco hitting righty could turn around a fastball and hit out in Minny what would likely be a double at Fenway. And I really don't understand why you think his BA was artificially elevated in the Boston lineup. Beyond the fact that he hit eighth or ninth most of the year, since when does BA get effected by lineups? I thought things like RBIs, runs scored, maybe OBP are effected by lineup, but BA??? BA is about the only truly "personal" statistic a batter has.

Perhaps Coco would benefit from the turf and will get a few more doubles/triples. I'm not predicting that Coco's BA will definitely decline somewhere else, or that he faces more favorable pitching batting seventh (in front of those sultans named Varitek and Lugo ) but come on, you yourself were explaining how Youkilis benefits from his spot in the stacked Boston lineup. Didn't they try Coco batting first or second for awhile, and would batting first or second in Minnesota be comparable? How about Youkilis batting third in Kansas City?

[zen archer]

There has also been talk that Coco could be dealt to the Braves , and the feeling is he

would do better in the NL because he is a fastball hitter and thats what he would see in the NL.

Epstein has told people that the name that comes up most in trade talks is DelCarmen !

[Dan Gould]

Epstein has told people that the name that comes up most in trade talks is DelCarmen !

What, you thought it should be Hansen?

A breakthrough season with an ERA barely over 2 with a BAA under .200 will make other GMs sit up and take notice, not to mention that he's 25 and cost controlled for at least three years, probably 4.

[BERIGAN]

There has also been talk that Coco could be dealt to the Braves , and the feeling is he

would do better in the NL because he is a fastball hitter and thats what he would see in the NL.

Epstein has told people that the name that comes up most in trade talks is DelCarmen !

Well, for reasons known only to Satan, the main guy talked about for CF here was Mike Cameron....35 year old Cameron, who struck out 160 times last year....hit .242 last year....but, he got busted using some sort of stimulant , and will be banned for the first 25 games. So, we may have been saved from a reallly stupid management decision. Coco was a brief rumor here a week ago, but our beat writer(who was in Boston for the WS) shot it down...but, that was before Cameron came down with upper-itis. (Don't even know why the Sox would want Kelly Johnson, no place for him on that team)

Kelly Johnson for Coco Crisp? That rumor’s been hot-and-heavy on the ol’ Man In Black blog here today. But after speaking with a person who should know, I can tell you it sounds unlikely the Braves would trade for Crisp to be their new center fielder, and extremely unlikely that they’d trade Kelly Johnson for Crisp.

In other words, if the Braves can’t do better in finding a replacement for Andruw Jones than Crisp, then maybe they’d consider trading for the no-longer-starting Red Sox center fielder. But they wouldn’t trade Kelly Johnson in a straight-up deal for Crisp, who would kill to have an offensive season like the one K.J. just had in his first full season.

Braves supposedly have 2 swell prospects who can play CF, the Tigers guy, Gorkys Hernandez, and Jordan Schafer , who someone called(Perhaps a crazy man?) a combo of Grady Sizemore, and Steve Finley. But, they are both a year or two away...so, have to figure out something...Coco can't hit worse than Andruw did last year (.222 overall, .231 with RISP, .169 with RISP and two outs) So, I'd be all for it, if you guys would like to pay a few mil of his contract. Thing is, who'd you guys want? Joey Divine was a #1 pick a few years back, and Cox did his level best to ruin him(He gave up 2 grand slams in 5 innings in '05, the same year he was with NC State.) He pitched all of 8 1/3 innings this year. I think he was brought up 7-8 times this year. Cox clearly doesn't like him, and he's 24 now. I see in one inning against the sox this year, he stuck out 2, so clearly he's a stud!

Edited November 1, 2007 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

While it didn't get a lot of play in the media (only one columnist for the NY Post wrote about it) apparently there was an early sample of the prickly side Joe Girardi can show toward the media during his introductory press conference.

Let me quote Post columnist Joel Sherman:

So when Girardi is asked if he thinks the playoffs are a crapshoot and responds, “I am a big believer that the best team wins," then he should expect a follow-up like this: So that means you think the Indians are better than the Yankees?

He was asked that. He responded by getting annoyed at the questioner. He then said the Indians were better for four games. When told that means it is a crapshoot, he got more annoyed, and the uneasy give-and-take went like that for about one minute.

Oh, I think there will be good fun to be had with the first extended Yankee losing streak with Girardi in the manager's chair.

You can read the original column here.

[Dan Gould]

Oh, and one piece of good news out of Boston:

Pitching coach John Farrell has taken himself out of the running for the Pirates managerial position and any others that pop up, because he feels that he should reward the Red Sox faith in giving him the position a year ago by not skipping out immediately when his star is burning bright. Considering what a tremendous job he did, his work ethic, the fact that he was instrumental in Okajima developing the killer "oka-doke" changeup (he told him to give it a little scroogie turn at the end) and how well regarded he is throughout the game, this is great news for the Sox.

[BERIGAN]

Many here have probably heard of http://mlbtraderumors.com , I just found about about another one,

http://elismlbrumors.com/ Guy needs to work on his word puttin' togetherin', but still pretty interesting.

Edited November 5, 2007 by BERIGAN

[Matthew]

I notice that Boras continues to use his b.s. negotiating tactics by saying there are some "surprise teams" interested in ARod -- yeah sure there is . My list of possible teams: San Fransisco, Chicago Cubs, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Boston, and New York. Any team other than these is just wasting a ton of money on a player that can't get you over the top.

[Matthew]

Very good article to open the Hot Stove season by Nick Cafardo of Boston.com sports. Too long to c&p, but well worth the time to read.

[Dan Gould]

Very good article to open the Hot Stove season by Nick Cafardo of Boston.com sports. Too long to c&p, but well worth the time to read.

Nick does good work throughout the year in his Sunday "Baseball Notes" column.

[Matthew]

I was just thinking today: "Boy, I miss baseball already!" Nothing but football on sports radio now and do I ever detest football

[Dan Gould]

I was just thinking today: "Boy, I miss baseball already!" Nothing but football on sports radio now and do I ever detest football

I'm lucky I've got NFL and College football to get me into February, then its only two or three weeks til pitchers and catchers report! The problem is that its still six weeks til the games start.

I do seem to get more things done though - both personal and professional - during the offseason.

[Dan Gould]

Latest from Nick Cardafo:

ORLANDO - It's been fairly quiet here today at the GM's meetings as executives and scouts continue to trickle in from all over.

There have been several teams wondering which way to go with their center field situation and the name most often mentioned is Coco Crisp.

The reason is the expense of the other available free-agent center fielders, including Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and Mike Cameron. Crisp is relatively cheap, young and can run. Among the teams linked to Crisp include Minnesota, Houston, Texas, Philadelphia, Atlanta, the Chicago White Sox, and San Diego. There are likely others as well.

The White Sox seem interested in Crisp but there's a lot of Johnny Damon-for-Joe Crede talk here between the White Sox and Yankees. The White Sox need to get a name player and Damon is definitely one player they're considering strongly.

So there's your confirmation that Coco has some appeal despite his recent hitting struggles. I would think the Yanks would jump at a Crede-for-Damon swap since the salaries are quite uneven and I don't think they'd do any better than Crede.

[Tim McG]

Has anyone noticed that A-Rod's team of choice is the Red Sox?

How 'bout them apples, eh?

[alocispepraluger102]

Latest from Nick Cardafo:

ORLANDO - It's been fairly quiet here today at the GM's meetings as executives and scouts continue to trickle in from all over.

There have been several teams wondering which way to go with their center field situation and the name most often mentioned is Coco Crisp.

The reason is the expense of the other available free-agent center fielders, including Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and Mike Cameron. Crisp is relatively cheap, young and can run. Among the teams linked to Crisp include Minnesota, Houston, Texas, Philadelphia, Atlanta, the Chicago White Sox, and San Diego. There are likely others as well.

The White Sox seem interested in Crisp but there's a lot of Johnny Damon-for-Joe Crede talk here between the White Sox and Yankees. The White Sox need to get a name player and Damon is definitely one player they're considering strongly.

So there's your confirmation that Coco has some appeal despite his recent hitting struggles. I would think the Yanks would jump at a Crede-for-Damon swap since the salaries are quite uneven and I don't think they'd do any better than Crede.

crede would make a great 3rd baseman for yanquis.

[Dan Gould]

Latest from Nick Cardafo:

ORLANDO - It's been fairly quiet here today at the GM's meetings as executives and scouts continue to trickle in from all over.

There have been several teams wondering which way to go with their center field situation and the name most often mentioned is Coco Crisp.

The reason is the expense of the other available free-agent center fielders, including Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and Mike Cameron. Crisp is relatively cheap, young and can run. Among the teams linked to Crisp include Minnesota, Houston, Texas, Philadelphia, Atlanta, the Chicago White Sox, and San Diego. There are likely others as well.

The White Sox seem interested in Crisp but there's a lot of Johnny Damon-for-Joe Crede talk here between the White Sox and Yankees. The White Sox need to get a name player and Damon is definitely one player they're considering strongly.

So there's your confirmation that Coco has some appeal despite his recent hitting struggles. I would think the Yanks would jump at a Crede-for-Damon swap since the salaries are quite uneven and I don't think they'd do any better than Crede.

crede would make a great 3rd baseman for yanquis.

No, they had a great 3rd baseman. Crede would be mediocre at best. His 162 game average is a .259 batting average, .305 OBP, 25 home runs and 85 RBI. A-Rod would have exceeded those stats by the all-star break.