CD-Rs sold as CDs

[David Ayers]

Check out this discussion on the Gramophone forum:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/mainforum.asp?...messageID=59445

This is the first paragraph by 'Billington':

In the last few weeks, three purchases of what I had no reason to suspect were any other than regular factory-pressed CDs turned out to be CD-R versions of the titles. This led to communication with people at Nimbus (the label of one of the titles concerned) which resulted in my being informed that, as classical CDs represent an ever-smaller niche market, costs must be cut in order to keep large portions of the catalogue available; hence the use of CD-R in the place of glass mastering. I understand that there is no sonic difference between a standard CD and a CD-R, yet there remain serious question marks around the longevity of CD-R as a storage medium. Moreover, the (inevitably smaller, independent)companies resorting to this means of cost-cutting (savings which, as far as I can see, they are loath to pass on to consumers) do not, for the most part, see fit to inform their distributors and retailers of this change in production ethos. This latter seems to be to be little short of misleading the CD-buying public. I am aware that websites such as arkivmusic.com offer company-endorsed CD-R versions of out-of-print titles; I have no problem with this as long as purchasers are made aware of the facts. Am I the only one concerned at this development? As far as I can see, the smaller companies (the titles in question were from Nimbus, Regis and Metronome) are actually doing themselves a disservice, as such behaviour will only deter people from buying items from such labels. If these companies truly saw no compromise in quality being made in shifting to CD-R, why then do they seem reluctant to disclose this to those distributing their product? Moreover, such a practice, it seems to me, assumes that either classical-music purchasers either do not care about such details; are not intelligent enough to discern any real difference in the product; are happy to unquestionably accept whatever the companies provide. I would very much appreciate hearing others' views on the matter.

I myself received a mail ordered Nimbus CD today and as far as I can tell it is indeed a CD-R (reflects bright blue under a strong light, none of the usual pressing codes, and an exact time of manufacture printed on the disc).

I say: this is bad news.

[Daniel A]

In a few years time there won't be any new CDs available at all anyway, so we'd better get used to it...

Prices on scarce CDs will go up for some time, and then drop when not even most collectors will bother anymore. I think that in ten years 99 percent of all people in the western world will do their music listening from a computer, a hard drive device or from the next generation of data storage media.

[Daniel A]

...on the other hand, the kind of people hanging around this kind of internet jazz forums make up less than one percent of the population today already, so...

[relyles]

I purchased the recently reissued Jaki Byard recording, Blues For Smoke on Candid from my local independent retailer. When I got it home and opened it I discovered that the disc I purchased was indeed a CDR with a label applied to it. Concerned that I may have accidentally purchased a promo copy (although there was nothing on the label to indicate such) I sent a polite email (at least I thought it was) simply inquiring whether the reissue had been pressed on CDR so that I could know whether I should go back to the store. I never got a response. I still have not learned the answer to this question, but if anyone else knows please let me know. I of course would prefer the factory manufactured CD to a CDR, if that was how it was pressed.

[mikeweil]

To tell the truth, I'd be delighted if labels would offer to sell their deleted titles as CDR on demand!

But I also think it should be clearly noted!

[Teasing the Korean]

In a few years time there won't be any new CDs available at all anyway, so we'd better get used to it...

Prices on scarce CDs will go up for some time, and then drop when not even most collectors will bother anymore. I think that in ten years 99 percent of all people in the western world will do their music listening from a computer, a hard drive device or from the next generation of data storage media.

You forgot vinyl.

[BruceH]

I'm still waiting for vinyl-on-demand.

[rostasi]

Did you guys pay CD prices for the CD-R?

[Big Wheel]

I purchased the recently reissued Jaki Byard recording, Blues For Smoke on Candid from my local independent retailer. When I got it home and opened it I discovered that the disc I purchased was indeed a CDR with a label applied to it. Concerned that I may have accidentally purchased a promo copy (although there was nothing on the label to indicate such) I sent a polite email (at least I thought it was) simply inquiring whether the reissue had been pressed on CDR so that I could know whether I should go back to the store. I never got a response. I still have not learned the answer to this question, but if anyone else knows please let me know. I of course would prefer the factory manufactured CD to a CDR, if that was how it was pressed.

This is bad - that title has been on my "want to buy" list for a long time. Has anyone else experienced this with this record or other Candids?

[BERIGAN]

I first noticed this about 6 years ago on some cds from the tiny Swing Time Records label. A Ray Miller Cd, an Adrian Rollini cd as well, I think. A few later ones were not CD-r's....

[sheldonm]

Dave Pell sells cdrs of all his releases....even ones still in print...occasionally with a bonus track or two added....but not always..

[Daniel A]

In a few years time there won't be any new CDs available at all anyway, so we'd better get used to it...

Prices on scarce CDs will go up for some time, and then drop when not even most collectors will bother anymore. I think that in ten years 99 percent of all people in the western world will do their music listening from a computer, a hard drive device or from the next generation of data storage media.

You forgot vinyl.

I think the vinyl listening will be within that single non-PC/MP3/whatever percent. Of course, there will always be a collector's market for LPs, but I think prices will eventually fall on vinyl, too.

[MoGrubb]

......I myself received a mail ordered Nimbus CD today and as far as I can tell it is indeed a CD-R (reflects bright blue under a strong light, none of the usual pressing codes, and an exact time of manufacture printed on the disc).

I say: this is bad news.

I wonder if the "bright blue reflection under a strong light" is a reliable way to id all cd-rs?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I wonder if the "bright blue reflection under a strong light" is a reliable way to id all cd-rs?

No. Some CD-Rs use a clear dye. The Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui blanks I use have clear dye.

[RDK]

Saw Big Black a few weeks ago and he was selling "homemade" CDRs, including a 2-disc recording he did with Randy Weston.

[rostasi]

WOW! Randy Weston with Big Black!

I could only imagine!

[sidewinder]

WOW! Randy Weston with Big Black!

I could only imagine!

Jeez ! What label is that one on?

[Daniel A]

I'm not sure that album is by the right Big Black.

I found out after the fact that there was an African percussionist who called himself BIg Black -- not African actually, just a black guy from America, who made a bunch of sort of psychedelic-jazz percussion records. I actually have some of them. They're pretty horrible, but he was using the name ten years before I was. I think he started in '67 or '68, using the name Big Black.

http://petdance.com/actionpark/bigblack/press/rocknames.php

[rostasi]

just pullin' yer leg...

[clifford_thornton]

WOW! Randy Weston with Big Black!

I could only imagine!

Jeez ! What label is that one on?

Touch & Go.

They were a really good band.

Edited October 21, 2007 by clifford_thornton

[relyles]

I have no problem with the selling of a CDR with full disclosure to the purchaser. I am aware that many musicians do just that when using the do it yourself model. It obviously saves costs. In fact, I have purchased from CDRs from musicians in the past. The real concern is when you purchase a CDR that is purportedly manufactured by a record company and there is no advance warning. I am going to check my Byard disc again just to make sure I did not miss some indication that it is a promo or something similar.

[clifford_thornton]

It is wack to sell CD-Rs without informing the buyer.

[MoGrubb]

Well, I guess what I need to know is "Is there a fail safe method to distinquish a CDR from a reg CD? Or, do I just have to take somebody's word?

[JohnS]

I have no problem with the selling of a CDR with full disclosure to the purchaser. I am aware that many musicians do just that when using the do it yourself model. It obviously saves costs. In fact, I have purchased from CDRs from musicians in the past. The real concern is when you purchase a CDR that is purportedly manufactured by a record company and there is no advance warning. I am going to check my Byard disc again just to make sure I did not miss some indication that it is a promo or something similar.

I agree, full disclosure is essential.

[Jim Alfredson]

Yes, because when I burn a copy for a friend, I need to know if I'm burning a burn or not.