Charles Mingus

[Durium]

CHARLES MINGUS

In April 1964 Charles Mingus and his Sextet left the US for a two and a half week trip to Europe; This European 1964 Mingus tour became a legendary one.

Charles Mingus in Europe 1964

Keep swinging

Durium

[Claude]

Hi Durium,

When it comes to Mingus' 1964 european tour, the new Jazz Icons DVD is also worth mentionning. It contains the TV studio performances from Norway (April 12), Sweden (April 13) and Belgium (April 19). 2 hours in much better picture and sound quality than previously available bootlegs.

http://www.jazzicons.com/ji2_mingus.html

[brownie]

There have been various Organissimo threads on that well documented tour.

This one among others.

I was lucky to attend the two 1964 Paris concerts. Among the very best concerts I ever attended! They're etched in my memory!

[RDK]

There have been various Organissimo threads on that well documented tour.

This one among others.

I was lucky to attend the two 1964 Paris concerts. Among the very best concerts I ever attended! They're etched in my memory!

That is so cool! One of my biggest jazz-releted regrets is never seeing Mingus in person.

[J.A.W.]

There have been various Organissimo threads on that well documented tour.

This one among others.

I was lucky to attend the two 1964 Paris concerts. Among the very best concerts I ever attended! They're etched in my memory!

That is so cool! One of my biggest jazz-releted regrets is never seeing Mingus in person.

I saw Mingus in person in the mid-1970s, when he was touring Europe with Jack Walrath, George Adams, Don Pullen and Dannie Richmond. Impressive. Around this time his Atlantic albums Changes One and Changes Two were released.

[Cliff Englewood]

There seems to be a few new bootlegs from the '64 tour released over this side of the pond;

Complete Live in Amsterdam.

Salle Wagram Concert Complete Edition.

Complete Bremen Concert.

I'm intrigued by the Bremen one as it has Coles on it, anybody know about the sound quality of these various dates, even from other previous bootleg releases?

Edited May 22, 2010 by Cliff Englewood

[king ubu]

The Amsterdam also has Coles. Beats me why they have to dub this as Mingus/Dophy Quintet/Sextet.

http://www.onttonen.info/mingus/1964.html

[B. Goren.]

There seems to be a few new bootlegs from the '64 tour released over this side of the pond;

Complete Live in Amsterdam.

Salle Wagram Concert Complete Edition.

Complete Bremen Concert.

I'm intrigued by the Bremen one as it has Coles on it, anybody know about the sound quality of these various dates, even from other previous bootleg releases?

What can you tell me about the sound quality???

[kh1958]

The Salle Wagram concert was previously available from France's Concert, and was reissued by Sue Mingus on Revenge. The sound is acceptable mono, perhaps not quite as good as on the Theatre des Champs Elysses concert.

Bremen appears to have been issued on in part on Ingo and Unique Jazz LPs. Haven't heard this one.

Amsterdam was issued on LP and CD by Ulysse (not a bootleg as I recall but authorized by Sue Mingus). The sound as I recall again is a decently balanced mono recording; but not quite as good as the Theatre des Champs Elysses concert.

[JSngry]

What about the Enja stuff, is that currently available?

[kh1958]

Both Enja volumes (the Wuppertal Townhall concert) are currently available, though for some reason only volume 2 is reasonably priced through amazon.com

The reissue is a bit confusing because the CD I have was reissued in 1988 as Mingus in Europe, but it is actually Volume 2 of the LP set. Now it appears that both volumes are available with the same volume numbers as the original LP release.

Edited May 22, 2010 by kh1958

[jazzbo]

The Amsterdam sounds about the same as the Ullyse release. Great concert.

[king ubu]

Yup, have those 3 LPs of the Amsterdam set - good sound there!

The Bremen, if it's the "usual" source (Ingo, 3 LPs) should sound quite a bit worse, but maybe they found a better source?

[Cliff Englewood]

There seems to be a few new bootlegs from the '64 tour released over this side of the pond;

Complete Live in Amsterdam.

Salle Wagram Concert Complete Edition.

Complete Bremen Concert.

I'm intrigued by the Bremen one as it has Coles on it, anybody know about the sound quality of these various dates, even from other previous bootleg releases?

What can you tell me about the sound quality???

Eh, that's what I was asking, I presume these have been out in some way, shape or form before so I was wondering are they worth investigating. I have a good bit of stuff from this tour but don't really want to spend $20 a pop if the sound shit, which in fairness, there is a very good chance of. The Salle Wagram one also has the Chico Hamilton Quintet with Dolphy at Newport in 1958, so I might just give it a miss.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Cliff Englewood

[Cliff Englewood]

Both Enja volumes (the Wuppertal Townhall concert) are currently available, though for some reason only volume 2 is reasonably priced through amazon.com

The reissue is a bit confusing because the CD I have was reissued in 1988 as Mingus in Europe, but it is actually Volume 2 of the LP set. Now it appears that both volumes are available with the same volume numbers as the original LP release.

Thanks for explaining that, I too have the cd "Mingus in Europe" and always wondered why it wasn't called Volume 2, it has this cover right?

[.:.impossible]

I love that cover

[kh1958]

Both Enja volumes (the Wuppertal Townhall concert) are currently available, though for some reason only volume 2 is reasonably priced through amazon.com

The reissue is a bit confusing because the CD I have was reissued in 1988 as Mingus in Europe, but it is actually Volume 2 of the LP set. Now it appears that both volumes are available with the same volume numbers as the original LP release.

Thanks for explaining that, I too have the cd "Mingus in Europe" and always wondered why it wasn't called Volume 2, it has this cover right?

Yes, that's the cover--the same as the LP (volume 2, that is).

[king ubu]

Probably has some connection to the Weber/Winckelmann split up. Each of them got one volume for his label. Don't have the discs with me, though. As far as I know, the LP cover of Vol. 2 (Enja 3077) had a small "Volume 2" printed below the album's title.

On CD we've got "Mingus in Europe Vol. 1" and "Mingus in Europe", which should allow folks to notice the difference, after all...

[kh1958]

The Bremen concert has now showed up at jazzloft, and I'm really wondering about the sound. The blurb claims "digial remastering." I would be skeptcal but most of the Miles Davis German Concerts on the same label (Jazz Lips) sounds good.

[erhodes]

I, too, would be interested if another source had been found for Bremen, since the Ingo lp's are listed in all the discographies I have read as the reference for timings. The Ingo set is as "complete" as Bremen gets, unless there is something new on these cd's. The Unique Jazz is only a single volume. The Bremen lp quality is slightly inferior to stuff like Amersterdam but not nearly as bad as some of the early cd boots from the tour on labels like Landscape, JazzUp and Moon.

The 3lp Amsterdam set is on DIW. The 2 lp set on Ullyse is incomplete. The 2 cd set is complete but it appears to be a needle drop.

The original Enja Wuppertal lp's do indeed say "volume I" and "volume II". The Enja cd is volume II plus a lengthy version of "Fables of Faubus" that's not on either of the lp's.

Coles is also on Olso (Jazz Icons plus some terrible cd boots on JazzUp and Landscape), Stockholm (jazz Icons plus some not quite so terrible cd's on Royal Jazz and Bandstand), Copenhagen (cd boots on Landscape, Moon, Bandstand...better than Oslo but nothing like, say, Wuppertal), Bremen and Salle Wagram. The videos actually have the best sound except for the Salle Wagram issues. Don't know if anyone noticed but the Oslo video on Jazz Icons is missing the false start at the beginning of the concert. Shanachie has the whole thing on VHS...same quality if not durability.

Stuttgart is the one to hear...worth getting a turntable for that one. Unreal version of "Fables...".

[king ubu]

The 3lp Amsterdam set is on DIW. The 2 lp set on Ullyse is incomplete. The 2 cd set is complete but it appears to be a needle drop.

There's a single third LP on Ulysse complementing the 2LP set:

"Concertgebouw", Amsterdam, Holland, April 10, 1964

Parkeriana (Dedicated To A Genius) Ulysse Musique (F) AROC 50506/07

So Long Eric -

Orange Was The Color Of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk -

Meditations (Meditation On A Pair Of Wire Cutters) -

Fables Of Faubus, Pt. 1 Ulysse Musique (F) AROC 50608

Fables Of Faubus, Pt. 2 -

A.T.F.W.U.S.A. (A.T.F.W.Y.O.U.) -

Sophisticated Lady -

* Charles Mingus - Concertgebouw Amsterdam, Vol. 1 (Ulysse Musique (F) AROC 50506/07)

* Charles Mingus - Concertgebouw Amsterdam, Vol. 2 (Ulysse Musique (F) AROC 50608)

I think that IS complete, no?

[Pete C]

Stuttgart is the one to hear...worth getting a turntable for that one. Unreal version of "Fables...".

Stuttgart is one of the hottest shows from the tour, but why do you say turntable?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SSGULC/

I don't know what the source of my copy is, since it was a torrent on Dime, but my download pre-dates that CD release on Get Back.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Pete C

[king ubu]

Get back has a whole series of what I guess are dime-sourced CDs out. I won't complain about that (though I do think if they are making money from these recordings, they ought to pay some royalties...

Anyway, while this Stuttgart set looks complete (I don't have my files with me to confirm though), be advised that they have some very incomplete releases out (such as a 1CD set of Coltrane's Graz concert, of which Charly did a complete 2CD set).

[Cliff Englewood]

I, too, would be interested if another source had been found for Bremen, since the Ingo lp's are listed in all the discographies I have read as the reference for timings. The Ingo set is as "complete" as Bremen gets, unless there is something new on these cd's. The Unique Jazz is only a single volume. The Bremen lp quality is slightly inferior to stuff like Amersterdam but not nearly as bad as some of the early cd boots from the tour on labels like Landscape, JazzUp and Moon.

The 3lp Amsterdam set is on DIW. The 2 lp set on Ullyse is incomplete. The 2 cd set is complete but it appears to be a needle drop.

The original Enja Wuppertal lp's do indeed say "volume I" and "volume II". The Enja cd is volume II plus a lengthy version of "Fables of Faubus" that's not on either of the lp's.

Coles is also on Olso (Jazz Icons plus some terrible cd boots on JazzUp and Landscape), Stockholm (jazz Icons plus some not quite so terrible cd's on Royal Jazz and Bandstand), Copenhagen (cd boots on Landscape, Moon, Bandstand...better than Oslo but nothing like, say, Wuppertal), Bremen and Salle Wagram. The videos actually have the best sound except for the Salle Wagram issues. Don't know if anyone noticed but the Oslo video on Jazz Icons is missing the false start at the beginning of the concert. Shanachie has the whole thing on VHS...same quality if not durability.

Stuttgart is the one to hear...worth getting a turntable for that one. Unreal version of "Fables...".

Thanks Ed, nice overview of the various boots.

I caved in and bought the Bremen release that I listed above and I would say it's well worth getting, the sound quality isn't amazing but, as they mention themselves in the fairly brief notes, you can hear every instrument throughout, there a few pops here and there but nothing major. I'm starting to get obsessive about this group/tour. :crazy:

After searching through my cds I found that I already have the Salle Wagram concert in 2 volumes;

this one here;

and the Volume 2 which is from Charly and looks a bit like this;

I also completely forgot I have this incomplete version of the Stuttgart show; the sound quality is just so so.

I also went back and listened to the Volume 2 Enja on CD and the sound is very good, better than I remembered, something very funny happens during Byard's solo on "So Long Eric", the crowd and Mingus are laughing but the solo kicks ass. I'm going to have to get Volume 1 now.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Cliff Englewood

[Cliff Englewood]

Probably has some connection to the Weber/Winckelmann split up. Each of them got one volume for his label.

That sounds like a messy divorce.

BTW, here are a few more Mingus '64 related threads;

Charles Mingus Sextet, Live at Cornell U 1964.

Charles Mingus Liege April 1964.

Charles Mingus, Town Hall Concert.