Was there any racial tension in Jazz between the East Coast and the We

[analogak]

the lees book was so boring...the stories were not interesting at all the musicians told.

that "four lives in the jazz world" or whatever it is called by maybe nat hentoff with discussions with ornette coleman and cecil taylor and i don't remember the other people is very good and does touch on racial issues at some points. well not issues i guess but you get good perspective on things...like ornette coleman discussing why whites make better bassists in his opinion than blacks (don't remember the reason)

[umum_cypher]

the lees book was so boring...the stories were not interesting at all the musicians told.

that "four lives in the jazz world" or whatever it is called by maybe nat hentoff with discussions with ornette coleman and cecil taylor and i don't remember the other people is very good and does touch on racial issues at some points. well not issues i guess but you get good perspective on things...like ornette coleman discussing why whites make better bassists in his opinion than blacks (don't remember the reason)

The book clearly made a strong impression on you!

[brownie]

that "four lives in the jazz world" or whatever it is called by maybe nat hentoff with discussions with ornette coleman and cecil taylor and i don't remember the other people is very good and does touch on racial issues at some points. well not issues i guess but you get good perspective on things...like ornette coleman discussing why whites make better bassists in his opinion than blacks (don't remember the reason)

You mean A.B. Spellman's 'Four Lives in the Be-Bop Business', one of the great read about jazz. The book concentrated on Coleman, Taylor and Herbie Nichols and Jackie McLean!

[AllenLowe]

can't stand Lees but I still like a lot of the profiles - good one in particular on Frank Rosolino -

[brownie]

The one on Stanley Turrentine in Lees 'Friends Along the Way' was not too bad either!

[AllenLowe]

also, I believe he did a nice piece on Bill Challis -

[jazzwestcoast]

Well....

Speaking as the son of jazz bassist, Harry Babasin, I can tell you that it was societal pressures that kept the races apart, much more than the players themselves. My father played and recorded with anybody that could really play - no matter what their race or background.

I've got him on recordings with Charlie Parker and Chet Baker, live at the Tradewinds - Wardell Gray and Dexter Gordon, live at the Bopland Concert at the Elks Club on Central Avenue - with Laurindo Almeida and Bud Shank doing the early forms of the Bossa Nova - playing with Benny Goodman, Peggy Lee, Mel Torme - in a movie with Louis Armstrong, Charlie Barnet, Lionel Hampton, Tommy Dorsey in 1947 - live with Benny Carter.

My father's original group, The Jazzpickers, had Bill Douglas on drums and featured the great, Buddy Collette on flute, along with Bob Harrington on vibes and Dempsey Wright on guitar.

My dad always told me that club owners and record labels and wives and girlfriends exerted influence on the players that would keep the races apart. If you could play - you could play - that was the bottom line...

If you'd like to talk with me off this board, please feel free to write me directly at -

von@onoffon.com

BTW - my father was a first generation Armenian-American - my grandfather escaped the Armenian genocide in 1915.

Just for the record....

Von Babasin

[AndrewHill]

Well....

Speaking as the son of jazz bassist, Harry Babasin, I can tell you that it was societal pressures that kept the races apart, much more than the players themselves. My father played and recorded with anybody that could really play - no matter what their race or background.

I've got him on recordings with Charlie Parker and Chet Baker, live at the Tradewinds - Wardell Gray and Dexter Gordon, live at the Bopland Concert at the Elks Club on Central Avenue - with Laurindo Almeida and Bud Shank doing the early forms of the Bossa Nova - playing with Benny Goodman, Peggy Lee, Mel Torme - in a movie with Louis Armstrong, Charlie Barnet, Lionel Hampton, Tommy Dorsey in 1947 - live with Benny Carter.

My father's original group, The Jazzpickers, had Bill Douglas on drums and featured the great, Buddy Collette on flute, along with Bob Harrington on vibes and Dempsey Wright on guitar.

My dad always told me that club owners and record labels and wives and girlfriends exerted influence on the players that would keep the races apart. If you could play - you could play - that was the bottom line...

If you'd like to talk with me off this board, please feel free to write me directly at -

von@onoffon.com

BTW - my father was a first generation Armenian-American - my grandfather escaped the Armenian genocide in 1915.

Just for the record....

Von Babasin

Thanks for sharing that!

[AndrewHill]

In case anyone's interested, here's some of the books that I'm considering using:

The Freedom Principle by John Litweiler (which also inlcudes a quote from a Downbeat review by Larry Kart on the back cover )

West Coast Jazz by Ted Giola

Notes and Tones by Arthur Taylor

I found another one by Martin Smith called "John Coltrane: jazz, racism and resistance). Any thoughts on this one?

[clifford_thornton]

Kofsky's book is an interesting historical document. He did seem like he was a bit of a nutjob, though.

[AndrewHill]

Thanks guys, I will look into it.

[umum_cypher]

Thanks guys, I will look into it.

The Smith is unresearched nonsense and makes Kofsky look right-of-centre. Dizzy Gillespie is quoted saying something that includes the word 'people' and is immediately co-opted by Smith as a card-carrying fellow traveller.

[Niko]

In case anyone's interested, here's some of the books that I'm considering using:

The Freedom Principle by John Litweiler (which also inlcudes a quote from a Downbeat review by Larry Kart on the back cover )

West Coast Jazz by Ted Giola

Notes and Tones by Arthur Taylor

I found another one by Martin Smith called "John Coltrane: jazz, racism and resistance). Any thoughts on this one?

West Coast Jazz is my favorite jazz book - it's definitely worth considering, no matter what you are looking for

[AndrewHill]

In case anyone's interested, here's some of the books that I'm considering using:

The Freedom Principle by John Litweiler (which also inlcudes a quote from a Downbeat review by Larry Kart on the back cover )

West Coast Jazz by Ted Giola

Notes and Tones by Arthur Taylor

I found another one by Martin Smith called "John Coltrane: jazz, racism and resistance). Any thoughts on this one?

West Coast Jazz is my favorite jazz book - it's definitely worth considering, no matter what you are looking for

The book so far seems pretty interesting (I've read the first couple of chapters) for example, I did not know that Chet Baker was pumping gas in the early 70's

[Niko]

The book so far seems pretty interesting (I've read the first couple of chapters) for example, I did not know that Chet Baker was pumping gas in the early 70's

many interesting passages about interesting figures of many colors in there, Bob Graettinger, Dupree Bolton, Jimmy Giuffre...

for more Baker at the gas pump and the like, try Jeroen de Valks Baker Bio (which can be had for 8 or 9 $ at the moment; there is an expanded edition released by now however but just in dutch so far, afaik)

Edited October 19, 2007 by Niko

[AndrewHill]

Thanks guys, I will look into it.

The Smith is unresearched nonsense and makes Kofsky look right-of-centre. Dizzy Gillespie is quoted saying something that includes the word 'people' and is immediately co-opted by Smith as a card-carrying fellow traveller.

I read Smith this morning (it was a real short and fast read) and concur that a good deal of it is non-sense. Especially when there's a caption under a picture of Miles Davis that Captitol used for the repackaging of Birth of the Cool (with the bonus live date) and he says that this is a picture of the "cover" of Birth of the Cool.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Holy Ghost

[Christiern]

Kofsky was indeed a nut job. Read his rants only with a salt mine in the vicinity.

[Teasing the Korean]

I was kind of surprised that the west coast jazz book pretty much ignored the whole arrival of jazz into film and TV scoring. This of course happened in Hollywood and impacted LA jazz musicians at the time.

[Fer Urbina]

In case anyone's interested, here's some of the books that I'm considering using:

The Freedom Principle by John Litweiler (which also inlcudes a quote from a Downbeat review by Larry Kart on the back cover )

West Coast Jazz by Ted Giola

Notes and Tones by Arthur Taylor

I found another one by Martin Smith called "John Coltrane: jazz, racism and resistance). Any thoughts on this one?

Holy Ghost,

IIRC, there's some relevant stuff for you in the recent Lee Morgan biography.

F