Am I the only one who thinks LEEWAY is boring?

[mikeweil]

Well, boring might be a little too hard as a rating, but I think it's below your average good hardbop date.

After listening to hundreds of hardbop albums, I started to find some of them boring, too, if they were not as inspired as the classic icons of the genre, so I sure know what Al is talking about.

[jazzbo]

Well, boring might be a little too hard as a rating, but I think it's below your average good hardbop date.

After listening to hundreds of hardbop albums, I started to find some of them boring, too, if they were not as inspired as the classic icons of the genre, so I sure know what Al is talking about.

I too find some hardbop dates. . . boring. (Formulaic. To be polite.)

THIS isn't one of them!

[BruceH]

I really like it a lot. One of my favorite Lee Morgan records.

[porcy62]

Well, boring might be a little too hard as a rating, but I think it's below your average good hardbop date.

After listening to hundreds of hardbop albums, I started to find some of them boring, too, if they were not as inspired as the classic icons of the genre, so I sure know what Al is talking about.

In THIS sense I might moderately agree with Al.

Edited September 27, 2007 by porcy62

[sal]

I too find some hardbop dates. . . boring. (Formulaic. To be polite.)

THIS isn't one of them!

[Big Al]

This album is a monumental disappointment to me.

Big Al is a monumental disappointment to me!

Me too!

[brownie]

This album is a monumental disappointment to me.

Big Al is a monumental disappointment to me!

Me too!

[paul secor]

I too find some hardbop dates. . . boring. (Formulaic. To be polite.)

THIS isn't one of them!

In the 1960s, when I started listening to jazz, I passed over a lot of hard bop records because of their formulaic quality. Later on - late 70s to the present - I was able to get past the formulas and hear the musicians and the music. I missed out on some great music back then, but I'm lucky enough to be able to hear it now - and can hear it differently than I could have back then.

I don't find Leeway a boring date at all. Three of the tunes are taken at similar medium tempos, there's no ballad, and only one uptempo tune. Perhaps that's what Big Al is tuning into. Some fine solos throughout, and good tunes - a good record, to my ears.

[Big Al]

Well, as is usually the case whenever I start a thread like this, little things start jumping out at me. Like the fact that I've been whistling the head of "These Are Soulful Days" over and over ever since I started this thread. I've been listening to it a lot over the last few days; it's slowly growing on me. Slowly.

[Matthew]

I too find some hardbop dates. . . boring. (Formulaic. To be polite.)

THIS isn't one of them!

In the 1960s, when I started listening to jazz, I passed over a lot of hard bop records because of their formulaic quality. Later on - late 70s to the present - I was able to get past the formulas and hear the musicians and the music. I missed out on some great music back then, but I'm lucky enough to be able to hear it now - and can hear it differently than I could have back then.

I don't find Leeway a boring date at all. Three of the tunes are taken at similar medium tempos, there's no ballad, and only one uptempo tune. Perhaps that's what Big Al is tuning into. Some fine solos throughout, and good tunes - a good record, to my ears.

I think I'm going in the opposite direction, when I started, I listened to nothing but hard bop, especially Blue Note, now I'm flat burned out on it. I put Leeway in the cd player last night and I pulled it after ten minutes. I agree with Big Al -- boring... sorry guys.

[jazzbo]

I too find some hardbop dates. . . boring. (Formulaic. To be polite.)

THIS isn't one of them!

In the 1960s, when I started listening to jazz, I passed over a lot of hard bop records because of their formulaic quality. Later on - late 70s to the present - I was able to get past the formulas and hear the musicians and the music. I missed out on some great music back then, but I'm lucky enough to be able to hear it now - and can hear it differently than I could have back then.

I don't find Leeway a boring date at all. Three of the tunes are taken at similar medium tempos, there's no ballad, and only one uptempo tune. Perhaps that's what Big Al is tuning into. Some fine solos throughout, and good tunes - a good record, to my ears.

I know what you mean . . . I've been really into hardbop, then bored, then back in past all the trickbags and formulae, then bored. . . .

There are some dates that just don't go BEYOND the form and fashion and are boring.

Leeway has LOTS going for it. But like some stunning beauties this date sort of takes its time revealing deep charms to you. . .

Edited September 28, 2007 by jazzbo

[paul secor]

Well, as is usually the case whenever I start a thread like this, little things start jumping out at me. Like the fact that I've been whistling the head of "These Are Soulful Days" over and over ever since I started this thread. I've been listening to it a lot over the last few days; it's slowly growing on me. Slowly.

I'm glad you started this thread - led to some interesting differences of opinion. Plus it got me to listen to Leeway again!

[Morganized]

I wasn't kidding when I said it was my favorite Lee Morgan album.

Not boring to me.

Well it certainly isn't "boring" to me. I am, well, "biased" but there is little that Lee did that I do not like. Leeway is probably not my favorite( That would probably be SFNL) but it is not boring.

Give it some time Big Al....and like a lot of Lee, put it in context. Regardless of where the music was heading Lee was at the forefront IMHO.

[Big Al]

Well, as is usually the case whenever I start a thread like this, little things start jumping out at me. Like the fact that I've been whistling the head of "These Are Soulful Days" over and over ever since I started this thread. I've been listening to it a lot over the last few days; it's slowly growing on me. Slowly.

I'm glad you started this thread - led to some interesting differences of opinion. Plus it got me to listen to Leeway again!

Well, part of it was worrying if we'd said everything there could be said about jazz around here. This thread proves I have nothing to worry about.

[blind-blake]

You naysayers can't be serious! It's a classic!

[porcy62]

Well, as is usually the case whenever I start a thread like this, little things start jumping out at me. Like the fact that I've been whistling the head of "These Are Soulful Days" over and over ever since I started this thread. I've been listening to it a lot over the last few days; it's slowly growing on me. Slowly.

I'm glad you started this thread - led to some interesting differences of opinion. Plus it got me to listen to Leeway again!

Well, part of it was worrying if we'd said everything there could be said about jazz around here. This thread proves I have nothing to worry about.

I didn't see Clem's post yet, so don't feel yourself too safe.

[Kalo]

This thread has convinced me of one thing: I need to hear Leeway!

I know, shocking that I've never heard it before, but there's a lot of jazz out there...

[Jim Alfredson]

Y'all need to hear Don Patterson's take on These Are Soulful Days if you haven't yet.

[John Tapscott]

Haven't heard it for a while, but I don't recall it as boring, just somewhat different than the typical hard-bop date. What I do remember is that Art Blakey was definitely not his usual self on the date (whether by design or for some other reason, I have no idea)

ed for spelling.

Edited September 29, 2007 by John Tapscott

[Jazzmoose]

I must admit that it's far from my favorite Lee Morgan disc.

[Big Al]

What I do remember is that Art Blakely was definitely not his usual self on the date (whether by design or for some other reason, I have no idea)

1000000% in agreement here! I think that's what makes this date so disappointing: it sounds like Art Blakey is trying to be Art Taylor, as opposed to being the driving force that he normally is. Not a slam against A.T., who can forceful as well, because I love his style of drumming. But only HE can be A.T., whereas only Blakey can be Blakey.

[Dan Gould]

I guess I should thank Al since his unfathomable opinion of this date led me to pull it out for the first time in quite a while. I remember when I got this in the early 90s, Doubletime had a batch of TOCJs at a great price, so I never replaced my copy when it came out domestically.

Definitely count me with Chuck and Lon, among others, in voting "NOT boring!"

The Cal Massey tunes alone make this a very worthwhile effort. And I cannot understand the complaints about Blakey. He is fitting himself to the music! Do you expect a lot of big press rolls on medium and down tempo tunes?

The one thing I'll say that is somewhat critical is that it does not really "feel" like a Lee Morgan album. To me, Jackie is the more prominent part of the front line, with more compelling solos. I could also say that this meeting isn't as great as the late 60s encounters between Jackie and Lee. So, while I enjoy this album a lot and would never call it boring, I would say that it is not an album I'd pull out if I really wanted to hear some topnotch Mogie.

But its still a damn good album.

[porcy62]

After a careful listening I found that the word that describes better the session was "introvert". The solos seems to me more a introvert observation about music. All the session sounds like a polite conversation, where musicians are able to listening each other's ideas without imposing their personality, in this sense I like Blakey's drumming. For sure not a session with a strong interplay and drive, Jackie Mac and Mogie's solos are not the usual explosion of energy and genious, Blakey is not pushing the partners to the limit, but I like it. It might appear boring, but I think it's just different.

Edited September 29, 2007 by porcy62

[Niko]

What I do remember is that Art Blakely was definitely not his usual self on the date (whether by design or for some other reason, I have no idea)

1000000% in agreement here! I think that's what makes this date so disappointing: it sounds like Art Blakey is trying to be Art Taylor, as opposed to being the driving force that he normally is. Not a slam against A.T., who can forceful as well, because I love his style of drumming. But only HE can be A.T., whereas only Blakey can be Blakey.

Blue Note trying to be Prestige was one of my first thoughts...

[Morganized]

Thanks Big Al for what has turned out to be one of the best threads we have had around here in a while, IMHO. The responses have been pointed but respectful. Glad to see so many folks coming to Morgan's defense.

All of the comments are causing me to reach for this one again. I have the RVG version I believe. Not sure if that is the "best" remastering job.

Anyway, great discussion.