Classical Music

[ninety]

I'm new to classical music also...I've loved Gorecki's 3rd symphony mainly the music and not the woman singing. Also I really love adagio for strings from Barber. I really enjoyed Gavin Bryars farewell to philosophy. Arvo Parts-tabla rasura is amazing aswell these are the perfect classical that fits my taste. I don't seem to like any other types of classical music except for the type that is very melancholic and dark that starts off slow and goes into a crescendo just like what I've mentioned. I dont want something too symphonic or orchestral with crazy time changes every 2 seconds. Just something that flows very well. Also if anyone knows the post/rock groups A SILVER MT ZION and RACHEL's they are 2 bands that play a sort of contemporary chamber music of their own if anyone has heard any which I mentioned can you recommend me something melancholic and moving that fits my liking??

Edited September 10, 2003 by ninety

[Peter Johnson]

Oh man are you going to get suggestions from Rooster Ties!

For my part, I heartily recommend Arvo Part's other works on ECM; dark and moody.

You might also enjoy Britten's Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridges for string orchestra.

Try out Bartok's Divertimento for string orchestra, and I think some clear winners for you will also be Stravinsky's Firebird and Saint-Saens' Piano Concerti (there are five of them) and Symphonies (three of them--you usually hear the "Organ Symphony" (number 2), which is phenomenal, but the others are undersung gems IMHO.

That should do you for late 1800's to early 1900's; I'm going to let RT jump in with suggestions that will take us up to the present day.

I hope this helps; let me know if you want more suggestions, and if you give these a listen, what you think of them!

[Guy Berger]

I don't seem to like any other types of classical music except for the type that is very melancholic and dark that starts off slow and goes into a crescendo just like what I've mentioned. I dont want something too symphonic or orchestral with crazy time changes every 2 seconds. Just something that flows very well. Also if anyone knows the post/rock groups A SILVER MT ZION and RACHEL's they are 2 bands that play a sort of contemporary chamber music of their own if anyone has heard any which I mentioned can you recommend me something melancholic and moving that fits my liking??

Like you, I'm in the beginning stages of exploring classical music. You might want to check out the late Beethoven string quartets (Opp. 127, 132, 130+133, 131, 135). The various slow movements are some of the most profound, sublime music on the planet. In fact, it was Francis Davis's comments in the liner notes to Interstellar Space* which made me seek these out. The early (Op. 18) and middle (Opp. 59, 74, 95) quartets are also very good to excellent but not quite as "heavy".

I'd also recommend the Janacek (esp. #2 -- "Intimate Letters") and Bartok quartets (esp 3, 4, 5) -- they are more challenging than Beethoven's, but very powerful (though quite rhythmically active).

Finally, Sibelius's 4th Symphony is a very dark, austere, introspective piece of music that I recommend highly. (Also check out the tone poem "Tapiola" by the same composer.)

Guy

*"As with late Beethoven, there is always going to be disagreement surrounding the music of Coltrane's last two years, a period when even some fellow musicians began to question his sanity (though never his integrity)."

[Rooster_Ties]

I hate to say this, but actually I'm really probably not the best source of suggestions for this particular thread, given what 'ninety' has said that he likes best, as far as classical music goes. (For instance, probably all of my favorite 20th Century composers are the very ones that 'ninety' would like least.)

Of course, if I think about it a bit, I'm sure some names and even some specific works might come to mind.

I've heard both the Gorecki symphony, and some Part too -- and although I don't think they're at all that "bad" really, I do find myself much more strongly drawn to the mixed-meter (crazy time-changes) type stuff, especially with complex melodic and/or harmonic stuff going on right and left (often all at the same time).

One name that does come to mind, rather strongly, is John Tavener.

And possibly even Richard Nanes. And CD's with works by Nanes seem to be very easy to find in the used-CD bins (at least every store I go to that has even as little as one hundred used classical discs for sale), and they’re often available for $3 or $4 a pop, or even occasionally less than that.

Edit: One other name I just thought of: Alan Hovhaness - who is an American composer of Armenian decent, and I understand he did some serious study of tradional Armenian music, which he was able to integrate into his own writing.

Edited September 11, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Guy Berger]

I recently picked up a 2CD set of Alexander Scriabin's Piano Sonatas. Any comments on these intriguing pieces? I know Sun Ra was a big fan of this guy.

Guy

[Jim Alfredson]

Chopin

Brahms' Requiem

[Brandon Burke]

I got really turned on to Silvestre Revueltas a few years ago. He was a Mexican composer and something like a Stravinsky with more percussion. Somewhere between "Sacre"-era Stravinsky, Ennio Morricone and (believe it or not) Carl Stalling, though he predated all but Stravinsky by several years. Really cool stuff. Here is the AMG bio and this is a great place to start.

EDIT: This post inspired me to get up and throw that CD on just now. It's really great....

Edited October 24, 2003 by Brandon Burke

[Brandon Burke]

If you really feel like getting your shoes blown off then look for any Charles Ives recording with the "Holiday Symphony". I'll never forget the first time I heard "The Fourth of July". Wow.... Imagine the absurd masculinity of Mingus but transposed into a classical piece based on (earlier) Americana folk form (a la J.P. Sousa, "Battle Hymn of the Replublic", etc.). Ives is my boy, hands down. Relentless maverick. Wrote all of his compositions while still running a successful insurance company full-time. Y'know...on the side. Particularly impressive is the fact that he heard very little of his pieces preformed live during his lifetime because...well....they we're just too dissonant. I mean let's face it, most symphonies don't play Ives even to this day. The pieces require an immense amount of time to prepare and they're a lot to handle for the *average* classical listener. Assuming I didn't scare you away by now, check out Ives. He was a fascinating American artist regardless of the medium.

Edited October 24, 2003 by Brandon Burke

[Brandon Burke]

Good lord..... I just re-read your initial post. You probably wouldn't like either Revueltas or Ives if you don't like radical tempo changes. For that mood, my go-to guy is Morton Feldman. He's about as minimal as it gets. You'll find little in the way of emotive sweeps here. Just some light, shimmering clusters of tone that pass through with the regularity (yet irregularity) of a light breeze. In other words, you know it's coming but you never guess it on time. I'd give him a listen somewhere where you can check stuff out for free before you buy it. The classics are "For Samuel Beckett", "Coptic Light", "Durations", "Rothko Chapel" and the one that Kronos did a few years ago.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I love the Scriabin piano sonatas. The first time I layed my hands on a copy of one of them, it was the first sonata - on the first lp of a box of all of them - and I listened to them all, non-stop.

I think they're a great introduction to Scriabin as a whole, since you can really appreciate his changing musical vocabulary (be sure to note, when you listen to them, the order in which they were written - off the top of my head, I don't think it was in the order they are traditionally numbered). I also prefer his earlier vocabulary through the medium of solo piano - the first symphony, for example, doesn't really do it for me.

Personally, I prefer the later sonatas, I guess due to the really particular language Scriabin had found for himself by this stage, but apart from that, I couldn't really put my finger on why.

As to the jazz point, it's easy to see why. Scriabin tended often to build harmonies out of stacking fourths, rather than the tradtional arpeggios of more conventional classical harmony. This sounds explicitly McCoy Tyner-esque! Even when this quartal harmony isn't at the forefront of things, he tends to use lots of upper extensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths) in his writing, which are obvously found in a lot of jazz harmony.

All that said, I think the main effect of Scriabin on a jazz musician wouldn't be technical, so much as impressionistic - just the incredible sounds and emotions he can conjure, regardless of how he did so!

But apart from the piano music, everyone MUST experience the 1979 (I think) Svetlanov version of the Poem of Ecstasy' with the USSR Philharmonic. Oh my...

[brownie]

Edgar Varese.

You should like him.

Have a look here and try to listen to some of the records from his works.

[Guy Berger]

Personally, I prefer the later sonatas, I guess due to the really particular language Scriabin had found for himself by this stage, but apart from that, I couldn't really put my finger on why.

I've been listening to the Scriabin set a lot over the past week and a half. The late sonatas are definitely very cool pieces, especially #9 and #10. (I still don't hear #7 as being especially upbeat/ecstatic -- it's not as sinister as the "Black Mass", but still pretty dark.)

Tonight I saw Ruth Laredo perform Sonata #10. (Along with some Schumann, Chopin, Ravel, Beethoven, and Rachmaninov.) She actually gave a little spiel right before the Scriabin piece because she felt he was underappreciated, and to prepare the crowd for what was easily the most difficult piece of the evening.

Guy

[michel devos]

[Tonight I saw Ruth Laredo perform Sonata #10.

Do not miss Dimitri Alexeev playing Scriabin sonatas...

[Alexander Hawkins]

And his daughter, Anya, is an incredibly powerful pianist - I'm not sure if she plays any of the Scriabins, but it wouldn't surprise me!

[Bright Moments]

Jim - when you get a chance please relocate this thread into the classical forum.