Why do they do this to me...?

[MoGrubb]

WTF? I went to Amazon to buy Blue Train and was presented with these choices.

Are there actual differences in the sounds, and/or maybe longevity of the disk? Or, is this a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo/hype that I shouldn't concern my pretty little head about?

Your advice and comments are most welcome, whether they're worth a shit or not.

[user0815]

WTF? I went to Amazon to buy Blue Train and was presented with these choices.

Are there actual differences in the sounds, and/or maybe longevity of the disk? Or, is this a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo/hype that I shouldn't concern my pretty little head about?

Your advice and comments are most welcome, whether they're worth a shit or not.

can't comment on sound quality ... but can tell you this:

the old cd had only the five tracks from the original album ... later editions (like the rvg-edition) have two alt tracks (one of them being an alt of the title track)

of course, i have the old cd without the alt tracks ...

[MoGrubb]

Ah so.

I just noticed that all three of these renditions contain seven tracks. That must be why the enhanced in front of Original.

So, back at square one. The Original is significantly less costly.

Also, I've noticed that some analog recordings transfered to disk develop extraneous noises, denigrate over time. I'm wondering if maybe the ENHANCED and/or the HYBRID SACD safeguard against this.

[T.D.]

Ah so.

I just noticed that all three of these renditions contain seven tracks. That must be why the enhanced in front of Original.

So, back at square one. The Original is significantly less costly.

Also, I've noticed that some analog recordings transfered to disk develop extraneous noises, denigrate over time. I'm wondering if maybe the ENHANCED and/or the HYBRID SACD safeguard against this.

Hybrid SACD is only worth paying up for if you own (or intend to buy) a SACD player. It has layers which can be read by SACD and regular CD players. I only have regular CD players, so never pay up here.

I'm not sure what "Enhanced" means for jazz CDs. In classical CDs, "Enhanced" generally refers to CDs including extra material (scores, composer interview videos and the like) that can be viewed on your computer.*

[Added]* Same meaning. It's explained on the Amazon site ("Enhanced" is clickable). In fact, if you read the Amazon listing, the enhanced CD contains extra photo images and musician interviews.

Edited September 16, 2007 by T.D.

[Claude]

The "enhanced" CD contains a multimedia part to be played on a PC, but because it's so old (1995, Windows 3.1 !) there are compatibility problems with current PCs. But you can just ignore the data part. The sound is similar to the first CD reissue, remastered by Ron McMaster. It's ok.

The hybrid SACD was remastered by Rudy Van Gelder and the CD layer sounds similar to the RVG CD. I personally don't like the sound of his Blue Train remastering, it sounds overly compressed and has a reduced stereo spread. Even if you had a SACD player and could benefit from the hi-rez layer on that disc, I would not recommend it.

[MoGrubb]

Thank you very much for your responses, for clearing up the boondoggle.

[mikeweil]

I re-listened to the enhanced CD (The Ultimate Blue Train) and its sounds fine on my system. A bit better than the previous Blue Note CD, I found back then.

The interviews are nice, the video is only Trane's solo from the 1960 TV appearance with Miles.

One should keep an old working computer for these things - the new QuickTime should handle it, but I had to temporarily reduce screen color resolution ...

[mikeweil]

The hybrid SACD was remastered by Rudy Van Gelder and the CD layer sounds similar to the RVG CD. I personally don't like the sound of his Blue Train remastering, it sounds overly compressed and has a reduced stereo spread. Even if you had a SACD player and could benefit from the hi-rez layer on that disc, I would not recommend it.

Claude, please post your review on SA-CD.net to correct the bias a little. Thanks!

[Morganized]

WTF? I went to Amazon to buy Blue Train and was presented with these choices.

Are there actual differences in the sounds, and/or maybe longevity of the disk? Or, is this a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo/hype that I shouldn't concern my pretty little head about?

Your advice and comments are most welcome, whether they're worth a shit or not.

I agree completely. Does anyone here have all 4 versions of the CD. When the RVG came out I tried to do a modified A/B test at a shop I frequent. Same type of players, headphones etc. Compared the "enhanced" version (The Ultimate) with the new RVG. Both sounded very good and it IS a great session but I decided the Ultimate version had a more natural, balanced sound and settled on that one. The RVG was a bit brighter and some would argue clear, but it did not simulate the sound of a live performance as well as the Ultimate version IMHO. To me, the RVG was not as balanced in parts and not as lifelike.

Just my opinion. The differences are subtle of course.

Let us know which one you decide upon.

[MoGrubb]

Thinking along the lines of its being like the original release, and it seemed to please a lot of people before the more sophisticated editing came along, I ordered the (Enhanced) Original. That's most likely the version that I heard many years ago and I liked it then, also.

[Chuck Nessa]

WTF happened to "tone controls" and equalizers? In the (real) days of vinyl the audio freaks had individual "curves" for each of their favorite records.

edit for silly typo

Edited September 18, 2007 by Chuck Nessa

[jazzbo]

Somewhere down the line (in the seventies maybe?) some high end manufacturers decided they could save themselves headaches and convince audiophiles that tone controls are superfluous and a "simple direct path" is the best for reproduction. After you have a fixed RIAA circuit that you couldn't change, and a clean line level source for tapes, etc.

There's some truth to that, but eq'ing can make a really satisfying listen. I accomplish this by "tube rolling" and by adjusting the high end frequency response on my speakers with various wire round porcelain resistors.

I have had seven versions of the session, a reissue lp, a cassette tape, the first US cd, the US RVG cd, the Ultimate cd, a Japanese RVG, and the SACD. I've definitely kept the latter three and I think I have the lp somewhere in a box.

Edited September 18, 2007 by jazzbo

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I have had seven versions of the session

My goodness! I don't think I've ever bought more than four copies of anything (for myself, that is).

MG

[andybleaden]

Well out of the four I would choose....erm ...ah.....erm

Well in truth I only have the original cds from way back and its sounds lovely to me...also picked up a few alt takes from 'other sources'

which were nice to have....not worth it for me to shell out again for

[jazzbo]

I have had seven versions of the session

My goodness! I don't think I've ever bought more than four copies of anything (for myself, that is).

MG

I applaud that! Somewhere down the road I've been cured of a lot of the silliness, mostly from now nearly two years of having to concentrate on my wife's health, though the silliness was disipating earlier. I do like SACD but since I've been listening to only just a little Monitor Audio i-deck system, an i-Pod, and a fifty dollar dvd/vcr setup (all with some isolation footers and interconnects that make a difference) for over a month and enjoying music immensely. . . well I don't know what conclusion to make of that. Music is such a narcotic for me, and the save breast so needy of the soothe, I can enjoy it served up high dollar or at gutter levels. . . .

There is a little bit of an upside to this type of thing. . . I've given away a lot of duplicates/different versions of sessions and I've seeded more than several jazz passions in doing so.

Edited September 19, 2007 by jazzbo

[MoGrubb]

I got my copy yesterday and am listening to BLUE TRAIN as I 'speak.' I get the impression that Lee Morgan was trying to give Trane a lesson on "taste" on the title cut. tsk

[take5]

The best sounding version of this album is one not mentioned in this thread- the DAD.

DAD stands for Digital Audio Disc, but it's just a DVD with only audio on it. The greater memory on a DVD allows the musical data to be sampled at much higher bit rates than CDs.

Very few were made: Blue Train, Somethin' Else, Roll Call and Cool Struttin' amongst them.

[MoGrubb]

The best sounding version of this album is one not mentioned in this thread- the DAD.

DAD stands for Digital Audio Disc, but it's just a DVD with only audio on it. The greater memory on a DVD allows the musical data to be sampled at much higher bit rates than CDs.

Very few were made: Blue Train, Somethin' Else, Roll Call and Cool Struttin' amongst them.

Interesting, I've not heard of DAD. Just curious, can a DAD be played on a CD player? You have to have a CD player with DAD capabilities? [i assume there's no question on a DVD player.]

Edited September 21, 2007 by MoGrubb

[take5]

The best sounding version of this album is one not mentioned in this thread- the DAD.

DAD stands for Digital Audio Disc, but it's just a DVD with only audio on it. The greater memory on a DVD allows the musical data to be sampled at much higher bit rates than CDs.

Very few were made: Blue Train, Somethin' Else, Roll Call and Cool Struttin' amongst them.

Interesting, I've not heard of DAD. Just curious, can a DAD be played on a CD player? You have to have a CD player with DAD capabilities? [i assume there's no question on a DVD player.]

No, a DAD disc is literally a DVD, ignore the new acronym. So like any other DVD it will work on all DVD players and no CD players.

I personally don't bother with any of that stuff anymore and use lossless digital for everything. For one thing, most jazz titles that are given some new fancy format are re-mastered, and it's the re-mastering that effects the sound more than the format.

I can hear a slightly improved clarity in the DAD simply because of the higher resolution, but for me personally it's not worth the cost and inconvenience of having any music outside of my digital collection, when the same masterings are easily available on CD.