New Blue Note 45rpm sets

[Claude]

I don't understand what is so controversial about my statement. The Music Matters LPs sound best, and the CD versions that come closest are the TOCJs (1990s releases). I did not refer to original LPs, which I have never heard. The McMaster and especially the RVG CDs have a different tonality.

Concerning the absolute sound quality, I agree that the MM LPs are not a revelation compared to the TOCJ CDs. They sound slightly better in all compartments, but it's not a huge improvement as some of the Fantasy 45rpms.

Assuming that Hoffman had the best tape sources and the LPs are optimal transfers, it looks like Rudy van Gelder did better recordings for Prestige. Especially his post-1962 Blue Note recordings are have less than state of the art sound.

So I will only buy the Music Matters LP sets for those albums which I don't already have as TOCJ CD. As for the Analogue Productions reissues, I will only get the SACDs as long as there are parallel LP/SACD reissues.

I have a love-hate relationship to audiophile LPs, knowing that SACDs or any other state of the art digital format would sound equally good but would be much cheaper and more convenient.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Claude

[J.A.W.]

I don't understand what is so controversial about my statement.

I don't think saying that the 45RPM LPs sound very close to or only slightly better than the "Blue Note Works" TOCJs would go down very well with Hoffman and some of the forum members over on his site

Edited October 15, 2008 by J.A.W.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I don't understand what is so controversial about my statement.

I don't think saying that the 45RPM LPs sound very close to or only slightly better than the "Blue Note Works" TOCJs would go down very well with Hoffman and some of the forum members over on his site

I agree with Hans. Not only would it not go over well, one of his high-handed gorts would delete your post and ban you without even a thought. They ban first and ignore questions later over there.

If you want to stay posting over there, keep any hint of negativity to yourself.

[Claude]

Well, to be fair to the Gorts, I wasn't banned for posting on the SH forum about a defect on one of Hoffman's 45rpm pressings, which is probably on all of the copies (as he admits), but nobody else noticed it:

Adderley "Things are getting better" 45rpm - tape flutter?

In my view, the Blue Note 45rpm are the best available reissues of these albums, but given the limitations of some of the recordings the 45rpms can't be as superior as they were for many of the Fantasy sessions. That doesn't say anything negative about the mastering, it does not affect Hoffman's reputation or the sales of these LPs (they will all sell out quickly).

Edited October 15, 2008 by Claude

[Peter A]

In my opinion some of the Music Matters (or AP) reissues DO sound much better than any other previous editions (including TOCJ CD versions or even original pressings), such as Speakin' My Piece or Little Johnny C. The AP of Blue Train also sounds very good. However, I do agree that some other 45 RPM reissues - Lee Way, Dexter Calling, The Big Beat and Capuchin' Swing come to mind - show less inprovement. Must say I love the MM jackets!

[Clunky]

I have half a dozen MM 45rpm sets. For True Blue, Night in Tunisia, Bluesnik & Soul Station I can only compare to McMaster 1980s CDs and also the RVG of TB.

The MM sets all sound better, Tunisia significantly so, but as has been noted it'll surely depend as much on the quality of your CD player or TT , as any issues of mastering. I've not got any of the AP issues- they seem to get less, favourable comments (is there a reason?). I'm not sure I'll buy many more as on my system everything sounds good to my ears ( CDs of all ages, LPs, MDs etc).

Perhaps the cheapest upgrades are made to your hifi as all of your software can sound better.

[J.A.W.]

Well, to be fair to the Gorts, I wasn't banned for posting on the SH forum about a defect on one of Hoffman's 45rpm pressings, which is probably on all of the copies (as he admits), but nobody else noticed it:

Adderley "Things are getting better" 45rpm - tape flutter?

Not many over there actually seem to listen to the music...

Edited October 15, 2008 by J.A.W.

[captainwrong]

Assuming that Hoffman had the best tape sources and the LPs are optimal transfers, it looks like Rudy van Gelder did better recordings for Prestige. Especially his post-1962 Blue Note recordings are have less than state of the art sound.

Interesting thought. I'd always chalked it up to Fantasy getting a better transfer for CD than BN or, in the case of originals, better pressings or some other voodoo. Of course, I guess between this and the RVG series on CD, both labels catalogs have been remastered by the same people and given similar pressings so a comparison is easier. I wonder why this is though.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I have half a dozen MM 45rpm sets. For True Blue, Night in Tunisia, Bluesnik & Soul Station I can only compare to McMaster 1980s CDs and also the RVG of TB.

For "True Blue", the TOCJ CD sounds very nice. Much better than the Ron McMaster Connoisseur. On "A Night In Tunisia", I really like the MFSL CD. I no longer have the McMaster version, but I remember the MFSL blowing it away. For "Bluesnik", surprisingly, I like the JRVG CD. It's one of the better ones from Japan. "Soul Station"? Well, I've grown so accustomed to the original Ron McMaster CD that it's become my favorite version. I'm sure that could be improved upon. The JRVG is not an improvement. I never found a TOCJ CD of this one. I think I'm going to pick up Ron McMaster's LP version that's coming out November 11th.

[andybleaden]

I'm a whiner, and I would rather spend my $50 on filling an FMP gap or buying a cool boxed set than re-buying a BN I already have in King, Liberty, or CD form.

(said from my pile of money on a houseboat smoking reefer)

That is the problem with this reissue policy, and the agressive marketing of Steve "mr know it all" Hoffman and his distinguished colleagues. They will always tell you that this one is better than previous, ths state of the art, etc... buying every kind of reissue will eventually make you spend the equivalent of the price of the original.

Yes I can just read the advertising blurb....whilst we have taken great care over these reissues, they are not as nice as the TOCJ releases nor are they as good as the LPs BUT they are better then

a not having one

b having a cd burn

c a cassette recording

So order now here:

[andybleaden]

Well, to be fair to the Gorts, I wasn't banned for posting on the SH forum about a defect on one of Hoffman's 45rpm pressings, which is probably on all of the copies (as he admits), but nobody else noticed it:

Adderley "Things are getting better" 45rpm - tape flutter?

Not many over there actually seem to listen to the music...

What has sound ever had to do with it?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

i have to really pay more attn to this other forum- im appaled yet oddly attracted to hearing tales like this--- did they really just have complete idiots in charge back in the 80s? too much happy powder perhaps? what in the holy hell of all things holy? was he just trying to "create work" to make his job look prouctive? thats the only thing i can logically think of. did he TRULY think re doing the tapes was in the name of preservation?

Chewy - I see you're over at the SH forums trying to get Steve to talk to you. Good luck. Beware the gorts. They won't hesitate to boot you outta there. Whenever you post, imagine you're talking to a judge and you'll be all set... well, you can drop "Your Honor", but you get the drift, right?

As for your inquiry to Hoffman about his work in the tape vaults, FYI, in the past, Hoffman has had some unkind words to say about RVG's recording techniques. In this thread, he had this to say:

Steve Hoffman -

When I work with a Rudy Van Gelder master I have to spend a lot of time coaxing the breath of life out of there. It's lost in a maze of echo plate and high-end limiter distortion that drives me bonkers.

If a mastering engineer just ignores that stuff the end result is less than wonderful in my opinion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Later on, he elaborated with:

Steve Hoffman -

Well, it's like a constant high-pitched grating sound. Ever stick your head around the back of your TV? That 15k carrier sound can drive one to drink. Something in RVG's system was dumping a lot of high-frequency overload distortion on everything, especially when the cymbals were hit. Kevin Gray and I figured that it was RVG's limiter that was causing the overload since it was better when the drums were not being aggressively played.

Do you have an LP that was engineered by Rudy Van Gelder? Turn up the volume and lightly run your finger over the vinyl, so you slow it down a bit (making the ultra high end distortion come down to a more audible range). Hear it now? YEOW!!!!!!!!

I worked up a "system" for combating this in my mastering, naming it my "Van Gelder Anti-matter Generator" (a play on Van De Graff Generator) and if you hear any DCC Gold Rudy Van Gelder CD ( Coltrane LUSH LIFE, Rollins SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS, Miles Davis COOKIN', RELAXIN', STEAMIN', POOPIN', etc.) that I've remastered, you'll notice the absence of any high end oscillation distortion. Just one of those little nifty bits of musical history that a mastering engineer MUST deal with for the sake of your ears.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've been trying to get him to tell me if he had to use his "Van Gelder Anti-matter Generator" on these Blue Note reissues for months. He ignores me.

It leads me to wonder if he overstated this effect. It sounds like all he has to do is hit "Play" and "Stop" with these Blue Note masters. I'd be interested to know if that was true.

Kevin

Edited October 15, 2008 by Kevin Bresnahan

[Clunky]

Well, to be fair to the Gorts, I wasn't banned for posting on the SH forum about a defect on one of Hoffman's 45rpm pressings, which is probably on all of the copies (as he admits), but nobody else noticed it:

Adderley "Things are getting better" 45rpm - tape flutter?

Not many over there actually seem to listen to the music...

Judging by SH response to Claude's question I'm not sure he's listened to what he's mastered. You'd think he'd be more interested in the end product than that.

[J.A.W.]

Well, to be fair to the Gorts, I wasn't banned for posting on the SH forum about a defect on one of Hoffman's 45rpm pressings, which is probably on all of the copies (as he admits), but nobody else noticed it:

Adderley "Things are getting better" 45rpm - tape flutter?

Not many over there actually seem to listen to the music...

Judging by SH response to Claude's question I'm not sure he's listened to what he's mastered. You'd think he'd be more interested in the end product than that.

Hoffman said a while ago that he hardly listens to his jazz masterings.

Edited October 15, 2008 by J.A.W.

[Clunky]

"Soul Station"? Well, I've grown so accustomed to the original Ron McMaster CD that it's become my favorite version. I'm sure that could be improved upon. The JRVG is not an improvement. I never found a TOCJ CD of this one. I think I'm going to pick up Ron McMaster's LP version that's coming out November 11th.

What's this release, not heard of this , any other details or titles ???

[michel1969]

Steve Hoffman -

Well, it's like a constant high-pitched grating sound. Ever stick your head around the back of your TV? That 15k carrier sound can drive one to drink.

Oh ! I do that very often. Fascinating experience. In fact, i only use my TV this way.

[michel1969]

[

-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

L :

Steve Hoffman -

Something in RVG's system was dumping a lot of high-frequency overload distortion on everything, especially when the cymbals were hit.

Right ; You can hear it especially on "Lou takes Off", which is known to be the noisiest off all RVG's recordings.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Michel

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

there are too many threads to go through over there. so many

kevin would you be so kind to post that pic of your avatar over here, ive never seen the uncropped No Room for sqares photo-- where did u get that?!

Edited October 16, 2008 by chewy

[sidewinder]

"Soul Station"? Well, I've grown so accustomed to the original Ron McMaster CD that it's become my favorite version. I'm sure that could be improved upon. The JRVG is not an improvement. I never found a TOCJ CD of this one. I think I'm going to pick up Ron McMaster's LP version that's coming out November 11th.

What's this release, not heard of this , any other details or titles ???

I see that the Music Matters Soul Station is already OOP, along with quite a few other titles. That went quick !

[michel1969]

there are too many threads to go through over there. so many

kevin would you be so kind to post that pic of your avatar over here, ive never seen the uncropped No Room for sqares photo-- where did u get that?!

You mean this one ?

[andybleaden]

that is nice to see again..cannot remember where or when I last saw that

[dsockel]

Great picture, Michel.

Any other cool ones?

[michel1969]

Great picture, Michel.

Any other cool ones?

This one is unusual, too

http://www.irma.asso.fr/spip.php?action=dw2_out&id=3166

Edited October 16, 2008 by Michel

[Kevin Bresnahan]

There was a while when Mosaic sold Francis Wolff prints. Their website had a link to bring up a large-sized web pic of each one. I went through and saved all of them, including the uncropped "Soul Station" and "No Room For Squares" pictures.

[porcy62]

There was a while when Mosaic sold Francis Wolff prints. Their website had a link to bring up a large-sized web pic of each one. I went through and saved all of them, including the uncropped "Soul Station" and "No Room For Squares" pictures.

Actually, I bought a couple of them that are gazing at me right now from the wall: Thelonious Monk and Thad Jones.