my 80-year old Dad suddenly looking to by a new car (300 miles away)

[Rooster_Ties]

Yikes!!

Out of nowhere, my Dad suddenly calls late last night and he's looking REALLY seriously at buying a 'new' 2007 Buick LaCrosse 'program car' (a specific car he's looked at, and had only cursory discussions with a salesman about (at the random Buick dealership that happens to be closest to where he lives) -- to replace his aging but well maintained '92 Olds Cutlass Supreme.

(Of course, being 80 years old, he wants to by a new (or new-ish) car that's EXACTLY like what he has now. And that means I'll be hearing about ALL the things that aren't EXACTLY the same as what he has now -- for at least the next year.)

Also, relevant to this situation, my Mom passed away about 5 years ago -- and this is THE first really BIG purchasing decision my Dad has had to make without my Mom around to hash it over with.

He doesn't know for sure (yet) what package (sub-model) of the LaCrosse is that he's looking at, but it appears to probably be the lowest option, a "CX" (or possibly, but less likely, a "CXS" - which is only a touch "nicer" than a "CX").

The specific program car he's looking at has 11,000 miles on it, and they're asking $20,000 for it (plus taxes, and who knows what other hidden costs) to drive it off the lot. Best as I can tell (looking on-line, at Edmunds.com), the original MSRP for an '07 LaCrosse is about $22,500 -- but given that the '08 models are just arriving, I'm thinking that a discount of only $2,500 on a program car with 11K miles on it is at least $1,000 to maybe $2,000 more than it's really worth. (I'm thinking they ought to let it go for $18K, not $20K.)

Is there any other kind of DOMESTIC mid-size car my 80-year-old Dad should be looking at?? It has to be American made; he'd sooner walk the plank than buy a foreign car.

I tried a couple on-line sites quickly last night (carmax.com, enterprise leasing autosales, and ebay motors), but am at a loss for other reputable on-line resources to check for pricing info. (Oh, just remembered autotrader.com, which I didn't check last night -- but will check soon.)

My Dad appears to be dead-set on buying a "program car". Not a 'used' car (from an owner), but something that only a dealer drove around for a year or two as a "company car" -- or a car that's exiting some car-rental program, like Enterprise, or Hertz, Avis, etc... I think he wants a program car so he can get all of the warranty he would get buying brand new.

How do I find resources specifically for "program cars" available in the St. Louis area?? I'm doing all this remotely from Kansas City.

Suggestions of useful auto-related forums could be helpful. I know there are a bunch out there probably (I've done some lurking on a Prius forum since we bought our new Prius in '06).

Much thanks in advance for any advice anyone has.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Rooster_Ties

[Jazzmoose]

I'm no expert, but I agree. That price seems excessive, considering the mileage and the timing. Heck, I'd expect that much of a break anyway!

[porcy62]

Hey, if you climbed the peak of 80 y/o and still can drive you deserve something like this:

Congrats to your dad.

[Rooster_Ties]

OK, I checked autotrader.com, and I think I hit pay-dirt.

Quite a few specific cars in the St. Louis area, at dealers, that all appear to be program cars.

I just gave my dad info on three specific cars that were priced a bit less than the one he was looking at, less than 25 miles from his front door. And I found the actual car he was looking at too, on autotrader.com -- so I'm getting the idea that Autotrader is a halfway comprehensive search.

I think I've at least got a handle on getting him some decent info to work with (where I felt like I was grabbing at straws last last night).

PS: Talked to my Dad just now, and now he's also considering getting a Chevy Malibu, instead of the LaCrosse.

(In other words, he doesn't know what he wants yet.)

Edited September 6, 2007 by Rooster_Ties

[catesta]

"Program cars" are more times than not simply rental cars coming out of service.

Run a carfax and that will tell you how it was orginally registered.

Typically there is no reason to be concerned with these cars as they are still under warranty.

On a resale car it is impossible to know what the dealer has in it cost wise, but I would imagine if the asking price is $20K, you chould expect a discount in the $2000-$4000 area at a minimum.

Rooster, if I was you I'd convince him to go Buick. Those new models give a real nice ride and are solid.

[Unk]

"Program cars" are more times than not simply rental cars coming out of service.

Run a carfax and that will tell you how it was orginally registered.

Typically there is no reason to be concerned with these cars as they are still under warranty.

On a resale car it is impossible to know what the dealer has in it cost wise, but I would imagine if the asking price is $20K, you chould expect a discount in the $2000-$4000 area at a minimum.

Rooster, if I was you I'd convince him to go Buick. Those new models give a real nice ride and are solid.

A friend of mine is a dealer rep for one of the big-3 US automakers. I've joined his crusade. DON'T BUY A FORMER RENTAL CAR, even if the carfax is clean/it hasn't been wrecked. They're usually sold to people who believe they're 'as good as new', yet they were owned by a party with a one-year holding period (not much incentive to maintain the car and a strong profit incentive not to - not that they have dealer-certified or otherwise qualified mechanics) and driven by individuals who have no incentive to treat the car well. (Proper break-in? Ha!)

[BERIGAN]

RT,

I think you are on the right track with all your research. I'd stick with a Buick, just because it comes in tops of the US Makes with customers. IF you Dad is patient, why not suggest renting a car or two he is interested in, and driving them for a few days/weeks??? Sure don't want to get stuck with a car he doesn't like.

[7/4]

IF you Dad is patient, why not suggest renting a car or two he is interested in, and driving them for a few days/weeks??? Sure don't want to get stuck with a car he doesn't like.

Wise advise.

[catesta]

"Program cars" are more times than not simply rental cars coming out of service.

Run a carfax and that will tell you how it was orginally registered.

Typically there is no reason to be concerned with these cars as they are still under warranty.

On a resale car it is impossible to know what the dealer has in it cost wise, but I would imagine if the asking price is $20K, you chould expect a discount in the $2000-$4000 area at a minimum.

Rooster, if I was you I'd convince him to go Buick. Those new models give a real nice ride and are solid.

A friend of mine is a dealer rep for one of the big-3 US automakers. I've joined his crusade. DON'T BUY A FORMER RENTAL CAR, even if the carfax is clean/it hasn't been wrecked. They're usually sold to people who believe they're 'as good as new', yet they were owned by a party with a one-year holding period (not much incentive to maintain the car and a strong profit incentive not to - not that they have dealer-certified or otherwise qualified mechanics) and driven by individuals who have no incentive to treat the car well. (Proper break-in? Ha!)

The cars are bought at auction by a dealer. As long as that dealer is reputable and the car has bumper to bumper warranty, why would you be so paranoid?

Ask your friend what dealers do to trade ins before they put them on the lot for resale. It's the same drill.

There are no guarantees a private party broke the car in or had it serviced properly either. When it comes to buying cars, new or used there is always some risk, no way around that.

[Guy Berger]

Is there any other kind of DOMESTIC mid-size car my 80-year-old Dad should be looking at?? It has to be American made; he'd sooner walk the plank than buy a foreign car.

Does your dad know that a lot of "foreign" cars are actually manufactured here in the US? I'm not sure if that would change his mind, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

Guy

[Chuck Nessa]

You should be able to find a new 2007 for less than the price of the "program car" with a little hunting. Search the inventories of dealers in the region and see what they quote. Most dealers have inventory online. If the dealer sites don't offer the inventory, try the Buick site - they will probably tell you what is in stock at a particular dealer. If you find more than one, ask for bids.

Back in January I bought a car the dealer claimed they didn't have. It turned out they were saving it on the back lot for an upcoming "car show" but when I showed real money they found it.

[MoGrubb]

For starters I'd do some cross-referencing of the same model/car, with same mileage.

18K seems more in line for that car.

Fwiw, even though the car's under full warranty, your dad would still want a car that works and is not in and out of the shop.

[Jazzmoose]

The cars are bought at auction by a dealer. As long as that dealer is reputable and the car has bumper to bumper warranty, why would you be so paranoid?

Ask your friend what dealers do to trade ins before they put them on the lot for resale. It's the same drill.

Yeah, but they don't try to sell them for 20K when they were originally 22.5...

[catesta]

The cars are bought at auction by a dealer. As long as that dealer is reputable and the car has bumper to bumper warranty, why would you be so paranoid?

Ask your friend what dealers do to trade ins before they put them on the lot for resale. It's the same drill.

Yeah, but they don't try to sell them for 20K when they were originally 22.5...

The price is relative to the equipment. Sure the base price of the car may have been 22.5K, but with added options the window sticker may have been 24.5K +, there is no real way to know unless you have the equipment list.

All things considered with the current incentives and year end close outs, as Chuck is suggesting, Rooster's old man is probably better off shopping for new and skipping used all together.

[MoGrubb]

re: depreciation

I've heard just driving some cars(cadillac) off the showroom floor can depreciate its value 10K.

[king ubu]