Fats Waller

[thomastreichler]

Listening to some mid 30's recordings by Fats Waller and his Rhythm I wondered what it is that makes Fats Waller such an important figure in jazz.

The search function revealed a few threads dealing with certain recordings and recommendations but so far there is no discussion of Fats Waller "the musician" as such, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Let me start with my interpretation and considerations and then I'll be interested in reading your thoughts on this topic:

Fats without a doubt was an outstanding piano player; technically more than averagely accomplished, one of the pioneers and early masters of stride piano. with a powerful left hand a right hand capable of producing octaves, tenths and cascades of runs all over the keyboard. His solo piano recordings are consistently exciting and he directly influenced pianists like Teddy Wilson, Count Basie, Art Tatum, Johnny Guarnieri, Thelonious Monk, not to mention the second and third generation stride pianists (Ralph Sutton, Dick Wellstood, Dick Hyman).

His small group and big band recordings are more of a paradox. The material he chose to play is - with the exception of his own compositions and a few others - rather lightweight. Most of the musicians he employed were far from being the best in the business. Herman Autrey was a competent trumpet player but not more, Gene Sedric was a mediocre reed player (his clarinet playing to my ears constantly on the verge of being out of tune). None of the members of the rhythm section was memorable in his own right (with the exception of Al Casey) but they swung hard and were able to build a tremendous impetus. None the less the "Rhythm" sides are highly entertaining. This is happy exuberant music, showcasing the great talents of Fats as a pianist, jazz singer and entertainer. The rest of the group fits well into the overall mood and and least swings tremendously, even if the solo contributions of the likes of Autrey, Sedric and Rudy Powell are less than memorable (compare Autrey to Bill Coleman who occupies the trumpet chair on a few sides, the latter being the much more interesting performer).

That said I love Waller's solo recordings as well as the infectuous "Rhythm" sessions. He is one of those musicians who, due to their early deceases (as Bix, Bunny, Charlie Christian, Jimmy Blanton, Charlie Parker, Fats Navarro etc.), let us wonder what they would have accomplished had they lived longer. In Fats' case we are at least blessed with a rich legacy of recordings over a period of two decades.

[BERIGAN]

This is happy exuberant music, showcasing the great talents of Fats as a pianist, jazz singer and entertainer. The rest of the group fits well into the overall mood and and least swings tremendously,

Really, that in a nutshell is why I love him so....It may not be the most complex music ever recorded, but the consistency is what is so truly amazing to me. Always good, full of drive, almost always making silk purses out of sow's ears(The crap tunes he and folks like Berigan had to record for Bluebird/RCA was criminal!!!) cannot be an easy task.

I am sure he wished to do more as a musician, and as an artist. But, before turning 40 to have recorded hundreds of records,(I can't imagine the record execs were too excited about all those organ recordings either, but they did let him record them) to work on the radio constantly.... to work on Broadway, and to have been in several films, all the while having to face racism on a daily basis, was quite the accomplishment. I know, you were talking more about Fats as a musician.

Well, all I know is my Dad says he should remember to play Waller's music more often, because anytime he hears the joy that Fats brought to each record , it cheers him right up. That's part of what makes him an important figure in Jazz to me....

[jazztrain]

Waller, for the most part, did not choose the music recorded at the "Rhythm" sessions. My understanding is that he often saw the music for the first time at the recording session and put arrangements together wtih his group on the spot. Admittedly, much of the material was fluff. Part of the fun is seeing (or should I say hearing) how Waller skewers and makes fun of the material.

Listening to some mid 30's recordings by Fats Waller and his Rhythm I wondered what it is that makes Fats Waller such an important figure in jazz.

The search function revealed a few threads dealing with certain recordings and recommendations but so far there is no discussion of Fats Waller "the musician" as such, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Let me start with my interpretation and considerations and then I'll be interested in reading your thoughts on this topic:

Fats without a doubt was an outstanding piano player; technically more than averagely accomplished, one of the pioneers and early masters of stride piano. with a powerful left hand a right hand capable of producing octaves, tenths and cascades of runs all over the keyboard. His solo piano recordings are consistently exciting and he directly influenced pianists like Teddy Wilson, Count Basie, Art Tatum, Johnny Guarnieri, Thelonious Monk, not to mention the second and third generation stride pianists (Ralph Sutton, Dick Wellstood, Dick Hyman).

His small group and big band recordings are more of a paradox. The material he chose to play is - with the exception of his own compositions and a few others - rather lightweight. Most of the musicians he employed were far from being the best in the business. Herman Autrey was a competent trumpet player but not more, Gene Sedric was a mediocre reed player (his clarinet playing to my ears constantly on the verge of being out of tune). None of the members of the rhythm section was memorable in his own right (with the exception of Al Casey) but they swung hard and were able to build a tremendous impetus. None the less the "Rhythm" sides are highly entertaining. This is happy exuberant music, showcasing the great talents of Fats as a pianist, jazz singer and entertainer. The rest of the group fits well into the overall mood and and least swings tremendously, even if the solo contributions of the likes of Autrey, Sedric and Rudy Powell are less than memorable (compare Autrey to Bill Coleman who occupies the trumpet chair on a few sides, the latter being the much more interesting performer).

That said I love Waller's solo recordings as well as the infectuous "Rhythm" sessions. He is one of those musicians who, due to their early deceases (as Bix, Bunny, Charlie Christian, Jimmy Blanton, Charlie Parker, Fats Navarro etc.), let us wonder what they would have accomplished had they lived longer. In Fats' case we are at least blessed with a rich legacy of recordings over a period of two decades.

[thomastreichler]

Good point. In those days the record companies generally were dictating to the artists what to record. My conclusion that Fats chose the material himself was made rashly. It indeed is amazing how Fats managed to turn these dull songs into worthwile and highly entertaining music.

Waller, for the most part, did not choose the music recorded at the "Rhythm" sessions. My understanding is that he often saw the music for the first time at the recording session and put arrangements together wtih his group on the spot. Admittedly, much of the material was fluff. Part of the fun is seeing (or should I say hearing) how Waller skewers and makes fun of the material.

Listening to some mid 30's recordings by Fats Waller and his Rhythm I wondered what it is that makes Fats Waller such an important figure in jazz.

The search function revealed a few threads dealing with certain recordings and recommendations but so far there is no discussion of Fats Waller "the musician" as such, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Let me start with my interpretation and considerations and then I'll be interested in reading your thoughts on this topic:

Fats without a doubt was an outstanding piano player; technically more than averagely accomplished, one of the pioneers and early masters of stride piano. with a powerful left hand a right hand capable of producing octaves, tenths and cascades of runs all over the keyboard. His solo piano recordings are consistently exciting and he directly influenced pianists like Teddy Wilson, Count Basie, Art Tatum, Johnny Guarnieri, Thelonious Monk, not to mention the second and third generation stride pianists (Ralph Sutton, Dick Wellstood, Dick Hyman).

His small group and big band recordings are more of a paradox. The material he chose to play is - with the exception of his own compositions and a few others - rather lightweight. Most of the musicians he employed were far from being the best in the business. Herman Autrey was a competent trumpet player but not more, Gene Sedric was a mediocre reed player (his clarinet playing to my ears constantly on the verge of being out of tune). None of the members of the rhythm section was memorable in his own right (with the exception of Al Casey) but they swung hard and were able to build a tremendous impetus. None the less the "Rhythm" sides are highly entertaining. This is happy exuberant music, showcasing the great talents of Fats as a pianist, jazz singer and entertainer. The rest of the group fits well into the overall mood and and least swings tremendously, even if the solo contributions of the likes of Autrey, Sedric and Rudy Powell are less than memorable (compare Autrey to Bill Coleman who occupies the trumpet chair on a few sides, the latter being the much more interesting performer).

That said I love Waller's solo recordings as well as the infectuous "Rhythm" sessions. He is one of those musicians who, due to their early deceases (as Bix, Bunny, Charlie Christian, Jimmy Blanton, Charlie Parker, Fats Navarro etc.), let us wonder what they would have accomplished had they lived longer. In Fats' case we are at least blessed with a rich legacy of recordings over a period of two decades.

[John L]

To what has been already been noted, we can add that Fats Waller was a great composer, had incredible wit, and was supremely hip.

Fats' music ages extremely well.

[Harold_Z]

I'm pretty much in agreement with all that's been said above.

I see the "Billy Banks and his Rhythm Makers" sides (of which Fats was a participant of) as somewhat of a stylistic precursor to the Fats "Rhythm" sides. Any pro or con on this?

[Stereojack]

I dispute the assessment of Waller's sidemen as second rate. They function very well as a swing combo, and Al Casey has to be ranked among the very greatest of guitarists. Remember that this unit's primary funtion is to entertain, not to create lasting art, and I think their musicianship carries them through the often mundane material.

[Harold_Z]

I dispute the assessment of Waller's sidemen as second rate. They function very well as a swing combo, and Al Casey has to be ranked among the very greatest of guitarists. Remember that this unit's primary funtion is to entertain, not to create lasting art, and I think their musicianship carries them through the often mundane material.

I totally agree. I kinda had the feeling that everyone thought that except Tommy T.

[Kalo]

Fats was one of the few jazz musicians who was truly a "popular artist" without tarnishing his jazz credentials a whit. He balanced entertainment and musical substance as well as anyone ever, including Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, and Django Reinhardt.

A joy forever.

[Hot Ptah]

The two CD set, "Turn on the Heat: The Fats Waller Piano Solos", is outstanding. Fats Waller was a great solo pianist. Too bad that RCA/Bluebird has allowed this one to go out of print. It is really worth seeking out.

[Kalo]

The two CD set, "Turn on the Heat: The Fats Waller Piano Solos", is outstanding. Fats Waller was a great solo pianist. Too bad that RCA/Bluebird has allowed this one to go out of print. It is really worth seeking out.

I wouldn't be without it. Fats was the capstone of stride piano, among other things.

[thomastreichler]

I dispute the assessment of Waller's sidemen as second rate. They function very well as a swing combo, and Al Casey has to be ranked among the very greatest of guitarists. Remember that this unit's primary funtion is to entertain, not to create lasting art, and I think their musicianship carries them through the often mundane material.

I totally agree. I kinda had the feeling that everyone thought that except Tommy T.

My judgement with regard to the quality of Waller's sidemen was primarily focused on Herman Autrey and Gene Sedric. I think nobody would deny that these two were not on par with the top soloists of the time on their respective instruments; think of Bill Coleman (who actually recorded with Fats), Henry 'Red' Allen, Rex Stewart, Jonah Jones, Roy Eldridge, Cootie Williams or Chu Berry, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins. Insofar Autrey and Sedric were IMHO not first rate. What I did concede is, that they served their purpose very well. I also totally agree with you on your opinion about Al Casey; he was indeed an outstanding guitarist (if you read my first post carefully you see that I did not call him second rate).

[Big Beat Steve]

I dispute the assessment of Waller's sidemen as second rate. They function very well as a swing combo, and Al Casey has to be ranked among the very greatest of guitarists. Remember that this unit's primary funtion is to entertain, not to create lasting art, and I think their musicianship carries them through the often mundane material.

My judgement with regard to the quality of Waller's sidemen was primarily focused on Herman Autrey and Gene Sedric. I think nobody would deny that these two were not on par with the top soloists of the time on their respective instruments; think of Bill Coleman (who actually recorded with Fats), Henry 'Red' Allen, Rex Stewart, Jonah Jones, Roy Eldridge, Cootie Williams or Chu Berry, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins. Insofar Autrey and Sedric were IMHO not first rate. What I did concede is, that they served their purpose very well. I also totally agree with you on your opinion about Al Casey; he was indeed an outstanding guitarist (if you read my first post carefully you see that I did not call him second rate).

"Second rate" on that level is already a pretty high level by 30s/early 40s swing standards. I really wouldn't rate Gene Sedric that low anyway. Even if he wasn't "first rate" in the sense of the TOPMOST jazzmen on their instrument (andit might be argued anyway if Jonah Jones and Bill Coleman really were consistently on a level with the other top trumpeters you mentioned ), "second rate" is really too derogatory a term. If your criteria were applied uniformly to musicians of that time the small-band swing output by musicians such as Pete Brown, Skeets Tolbert or the Savoy Sultans et al. (not to mention Boots & His Buddies) would not have had any right to exist.

As has been pointed out by others - and this cannot be stressed too highly - it is really the group as an entity that is the key to the quality of the music. The total equaled much more than the sum of the individuals.

They did serve their purpose of providing unpretentious, immensely swinging, entertaining yet timeless jazz music. Maybe you ought to look at Fats Waller's Rhythm as a band that slightly predated bands like Louis Jordan's Tympany Five - a band that IMHO falls into the same category, and the parallels (including the sideman credentials) are obvious in many respects.

Another point to consider: The music they recorded was supposed to be consumed two pieces at a time, i.e. both sides of a 78 rpm disc, and not in one go by listening to complete box sets of the entire recorded opus non-stop. When listened to more in a piecemeal fashion they might come across quite differently. Overexposure can blur the impact too, you know (unless you are a diehard fan).

Guess it's time to pull out one of my RCA Memorial box sets tonight again ...

Edited August 10, 2007 by Big Beat Steve

[thomastreichler]

I dispute the assessment of Waller's sidemen as second rate. They function very well as a swing combo, and Al Casey has to be ranked among the very greatest of guitarists. Remember that this unit's primary funtion is to entertain, not to create lasting art, and I think their musicianship carries them through the often mundane material.

I totally agree. I kinda had the feeling that everyone thought that except Tommy T.

My judgement with regard to the quality of Waller's sidemen was primarily focused on Herman Autrey and Gene Sedric. I think nobody would deny that these two were not on par with the top soloists of the time on their respective instruments; think of Bill Coleman (who actually recorded with Fats), Henry 'Red' Allen, Rex Stewart, Jonah Jones, Roy Eldridge, Cootie Williams or Chu Berry, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins. Insofar Autrey and Sedric were IMHO not first rate. What I did concede is, that they served their purpose very well. I also totally agree with you on your opinion about Al Casey; he was indeed an outstanding guitarist (if you read my first post carefully you see that I did not call him second rate).

"Second rate" on that level is already a pretty high level by 30s/early 40s swing standards. I really wouldn't rate Gene Sedric that low anyway. If your criteria were applied uniformly to musicians of that time the small-band swing output by musicians such as Pete Brown, Skeets Tolbert or the Savoy Sultans et al. (not to mention Boots & His Buddies) would not have had any right to exist.

As has been pointed out by others - and this cannot be stressed too highly - it is really the group as an entity that is the key to the quality of the music. The total equaled much more than the sum of the individuals.

They did serve their purpose of providing immensely swinging, entertaining jazz music. Maybe you ought to look at Fats Waller's Rhythm as a band that slightly predated bands like Louis Jordan's Tympany Five - a band that IMHO falls into the same category, and the parallels (including the sideman credentials) are obvious in many respects.

Another point to consider, the music they recorded was supposed to be consumed two pieces at a time, i.e. both sides of a 78 rpm disc, and not in one go by listening to complete box sets of the entire recorded opus non-stop. When listened to more in a piecemeal fashion they might come across quite differently. Overexposure can blur the impact too, you know (unless you are a diehard fan).

Guess it's time to pull out one of my RCA Memorial box sets tonight again ...

I generally agree. First of all, the term "second rate" was not used by me. And I am far from stating (never did) that every output by others than the big names did "not have any right to exist". As you say, sometimes the total can equal more than the sum of all the parts, and on the other side a gathering of superb individuals may produce a less than satisfying sum. I also hope I made clear that I love the recordings by Fats and his rhythm very much, because of the overall impact of the group as an entity and of Fats' singing and playing. The only statement I made was, that Autrey and Sedric as individuals were not the best musicians in the business (there were better soloists), first of all in order to point out that it must be other qualities than the individual strength of Autrey and Sedric as soloists that make the music that satisfying.

[jazzbo]

I've come to love all the Fats I've heard. What a personality! What a pianist!

He gets it all jumpin' and his musicians are good trampolines.

Whenever it gets dark, Fats can pull me out of shadow.

I love the Soundies!

[thomastreichler]

I finally purchased the twofer "Fats Waller Complete Victor Piano Solos" on Definitive (I know, I know ...). This is the most complete compilation of Waller's Victor solo sessions on cd so far, spanning the period from 1927 to 1941 (52 selections overall, 8 of them alternate takes), omitting only the two solo recordings from 1922 and adding the six-part London Suite as well as 6 radio transcription recordings from 1939. Sound, to my ears, is good (I have nothing to compare) and the music is marvelous: stride piano at its best by one of the pioneers of the genre. Highly recommended to fans of Fats.

[Shangas]

I did not see the point in creating another thread if one already existed.

Fats Waller is one of my favourite musicians ever, along with Goodman, Miller and...all the rest...Satchmo, Prima, etc...

Waller was the man who introduced me to early 20th-century jazz and it's the music that I love. I've got HUNDREDS of Waller's recordings and I'm not about to stop collecting them. I just wish I could find more sheet music of his songs so that I could play them. But vintage sheet-music is annoyingly hard to find, and modern reprints are shockingly expensive...

[jazzbo]

Welcome!

Interesting about the sheet music. My father has collected a lot of sheet music, mainly based around the turn of the last century and in to the WWI period. I haven't heard him talk of pricing in years, I'm not sure he's bought much.

[Shangas]

Hi Jazzbo, thanks for the welcome.

[Late]

Listening to Disc 2. I'd forgotten how brilliant a set this is. Transfers are excellent.

[karlhenning]

Love Fats, tireless chops, sparkling wit and joyous exuberance

[jazzbo]

One of the real geniuses of the genre.