Favorite Tenor Battles

[mrjazzman]

I know this has probably been discussed before but I'm curious. Wich tenor tandem is your favorite. One of mine happens to be Blues Up And Down with Eddie Lockjaw Davis and Johnny Griffin. Also, where can I find Dexter Gordon and Wardell Gray boxing each other...................

Edited July 13, 2007 by mrjazzman

[Guy Berger]

Well, I'm cheating since one of these guys is playing alto, but I really enjoy John Handy and Booker Ervin on Mingus's "No Private Income Blues".

Also, though technically not "battles", John Coltrane's recordings with Pharoah Sanders should probably be mentioned.

Guy

Edited July 13, 2007 by Guy

[mrjazzman]

Well, I'm cheating since one of these guys is playing alto, but I really enjoy John Handy and Booker Ervin on Mingus's "No Private Income Blues".

Also, though technically not "battles", John Coltrane's recordings with Pharoah Sanders should probably be mentioned.

Guy

as far as im concerned, it's not cheating, going to go pull that cd and listen to it. Did Sanders do anything that wasn't considered avant garde?. Can't hear that gendre these days.................

[sidewinder]

'Tenor Madness' is hard to beat.

[marcello]

On Tain's Bar Talk, Branford and Brecker have a good toss.

[mrjazzman]

'Tenor Madness' is hard to beat.

Isn't it a shame Trane and Sonny only recorded that one song together, but what a classic encounter it was......................

Edited July 13, 2007 by mrjazzman

[Jim R]

Griffin / Davis, especially the Minton's recordings, but really just about everything they did together. There are a number of other pairings that I enjoy, but for me none comes close to the excitement, the chemistry, and the sound that Griffin and Davis had to offer.

[Unk]

see also: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=230

One I particularly like is Diz's Sonny Side Up, with Rollins and Stitt.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:hzfqxq8gld0e

[mrjazzman]

see also: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=230

One I particularly like is Diz's Sonny Side Up, with Rollins and Stitt.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:hzfqxq8gld0e

I believe Duets is from the same session, great stuff...........

[Larry Kart]

Booker Ervin-Dexter Gordon on the album "Setting The Pace," in part for the liner notes.

[(BB)]

The Kid & The Brute ~ Illinois Jacquet & Ben Webster

Tenors Head On ~ Bill Perkins & Richie Kamuka (more of a pillow fight than a battle really)

[Chuck Nessa]

Probably 'cause I was involved, Dex and Jug on Prestige. Really a shame Byas wouldn't let us record his participation.

[mrjazzman]

Probably 'cause I was involved, Dex and Jug on Prestige. Really a shame Byas wouldn't let us record his participation.

Might that be The Chase? And, could you elaborate on the Byas situation............

[mrjazzman]

Well, I'm cheating since one of these guys is playing alto, but I really enjoy John Handy and Booker Ervin on Mingus's "No Private Income Blues".

Also, though technically not "battles", John Coltrane's recordings with Pharoah Sanders should probably be mentioned.

Guy

as far as im concerned, it's not cheating, going to go pull that cd and listen to it. Did Sanders do anything that wasn't considered avant garde?. Can't hear that gendre these days.................

Wow, I need you guys to tell me what to listen to in my own collection.....Crazy

[Chuck Nessa]

Probably 'cause I was involved, Dex and Jug on Prestige. Really a shame Byas wouldn't let us record his participation.

Might that be The Chase? And, could you elaborate on the Byas situation............

Here is a slightly edited version of the story (originally sent to Sangrey).

The Chase

We were living in Madison in the early '70s and made frequent trips to

Chicago and saw Dexter twice in one year that I remember. Gordon played one of Joe

Segal's "Charlie Parker Month" gigs and he was back for "The Chase".

Joe was then holding his events at the North Park Hotel (across Clark St

from the Lincoln Park Zoo) in a large space that reminded me of a high

school lunch room. Stage (risers really) at the North end and a bar in

the Southwest corner. It was a long laborious trek through the rows of

folding chairs to get a drink. I think Joe was only doing Sundays then,

maybe whole weekends but I remember Sundays. Anyway these Sundays

consisted of afternoon show around 2, dinner break and an evening show.

I remember, the night of the July/Bird gig, going to dinner at a Mexican

place down the street. Imagine this table with the following dinner

companions; Dan Morgenstern, Red Rodney, Dexter, Roy Haynes and Ira

Gitler.

But you wanted to hear about the "Chase" gig.

Joe ran those things with his wife and a couple of his kids helping out.

I arrived about 90 minutes early (must have made great time on the

expressway). Joe met me at the door and said something like "Great,

someone who knows something. Prestige wants this recorded and I hired an

engineer but I'm here all alone and I have to work the door. Will you

take charge of the recording.

So I look inside to find my old friend Leon Kelert fiddling with a tape

machine. Leon was some sort of electrical engineer, trad band fanatic,

record collector and proprietor of Blackbird Records. He had a semi-pro

Concord tape machine and had recorded a few dixie dates for his own

label. I'm sure Joe hired him on the cheap and pocketed the money

Prestige sent for a "real" engineer. Anyway, Leon was in over his head

and knew it. He was as happy to see me as Joe was. Leon had the recorder

set up on the right edge of the stage, no playback facilities and only a

cheap pair of headphones. Since the sound of the band would overpower

the headphones, I decided my best chance was to have as thorough a sound

check as I could get for balances and just watch the VU meters. Oh yeah,

I moved the recorder off the risers and set it on a folding chair or

something.

The show was 3 tenors - Jug, Dexter and Byas. Joe told me we would not

be recording Byas since Don and Prestige had not come to terms. Later

that day Morgenstern told me Byas was pissed at Prestige for not paying

him for material they licensed from Swing and MPS. The format was a

continuous program of tenors rotating in quartet and quintet formats,

sort of "round robin" style. Because of the format, Joe had hired 2

rhythm sections, or they would have played for hours at a time.

Of course the place was packed with a rowdy Chicago crowd and Byas took

the stage to announce there were 2 thieves at the edge of the stage and

asked the audience to police us while he was on stage. This became an

ongoing "joke" throughout the day and by the end of the evening Byas was

plying me with Courvoisier, back at the bar, an exhorting me to punch

him in the stomach so I could see just how tough he was.

We rolled tape when the other guys played, both afternoon and night. I

watched the dials and Leon sat there with his headphones, shaking his

head from side to side. In the evening, during a fantastic version of

"Lonesome Lover Blues" (or what passed for it) a drunk tripped over our

power cord and unplugged the machine. At the end of the piece, a

delighted Jug, wiping his brow with a bar towel, looked over at me and said

"How's it goin' fellas?". I held up 2 fingers, he stared at me for a few seconds

and turned to the mike. Then Jug said "the man says we have to do it again".

Dexter chuckled and the crowd went wild.

When the record came out I was relieved to discover the sound was better

than I feared. I never expected to be paid anything but was really

bummed there was no "thank you" or any mention on the record.

Leon Kelert died a few years ago and Koester bought the "estate" from

Leon's sister. The estate was comprised of Leon's record collection and

the Blackbird tapes. Among the tapes Bob found some "out takes" of the

session and turned them over to Fantasy with the understanding I

receive some credit on the cd.

[Larry Kart]

Was there for that Dexter-Jug-Byas event, and an event it was. I remember, among other things, the excitement of actually seeing Byas play. Can't say for sure but believe this was one of the few times (maybe the only time) he came back to the States. Lots of electricity in the room.

[Guest donald petersen]

Booker Ervin-Dexter Gordon on the album "Setting The Pace," in part for the liner notes.

g_d these liner notes made me think of "jewish intellectual on acid trying to be hip". i guess i should re-read.

[Chuck Nessa]

Booker Ervin-Dexter Gordon on the album "Setting The Pace," in part for the liner notes.

g_d these liner notes made me think of "jewish intellectual on acid trying to be hip". i guess i should re-read.

Not a bad assessment.

He was one "piece of work".

[JSngry]

RE:Gordon/Evin on Prestige. there's a private live tape circulating of a little bit one of the Gordon/Evin/Rollins concerts that precipitated that album that suggests that maybe David Himmelstein was merely caught up in the moment...

[Peter Friedman]

I don't suppose that they were tenor "battles", but the many sessions with Zoot Sims and Al Cohn together are damn good.

More recent recordings of Teddy Edwards and Houston Person together are also highly enjoyable.

[mrjazzman]

Well, I'm cheating since one of these guys is playing alto, but I really enjoy John Handy and Booker Ervin on Mingus's "No Private Income Blues".

Also, though technically not "battles", John Coltrane's recordings with Pharoah Sanders should probably be mentioned.

Guy

as far as im concerned, it's not cheating, going to go pull that cd and listen to it. Did Sanders do anything that wasn't considered avant garde?. Can't hear that gendre these days.................

Guy, you get the prize, that is a super listen. Too bad Handy didn't do more after Monterey, saw him recently at Yoshi's in Oakland, looks in great shape for his age..............

[Larry Kart]

Listened to "Setting The Pace" again. Damn! Dexter's solo on "Dexter's Deck" is an epic, and the battle on the title track sounds like a real one, especially during the exchanges. I think Booker, who cooled down quite deliberately at the end of his solo on "Dexter's Deck," was taken aback by Dexter's long, heated response and decided to go all out on the next piece.

[Shawn]

This one RIPS...

[White Lightning]

I second Booker Ervin-Dexter Gordon on "Setting The Pace". I think Booker wins this one, but not with KO.

A few favorties that (I think weren't mentioned before)

Dexter and Wardell Gray - The Chase - a tie.

Warne Marsh & Ted Brown - Jazz of Two Cities - Hot ice!

Lockjaw, Hawk, Tate & Cobb - Very Saxy

[clifford_thornton]

Listened to "Setting The Pace" again. Damn! Dexter's solo on "Dexter's Deck" is an epic, and the battle on the title track sounds like a real one, especially during the exchanges. I think Booker, who cooled down quite deliberately at the end of his solo on "Dexter's Deck," was taken aback by Dexter's long, heated response and decided to go all out on the next piece.

Yeah, that rec is great, and the liners are totally hilarious...

Thanks for the story, Chuck. A classic.