Tour de France 2007

[clifford_thornton]

Nobody likes an "unbeatable" champion - that is, in the peloton - remember the boring days of Indurain? Lance is also not a winning personality, which added I'm sure to the frustration some of the French press and public may have had with him.

Now that the field is open, it should be interesting, but it's been ruined by all the bullshit!

[Jazzmoose]

Can we swap this guy back for Monte or something?

[Van Basten II]

If i were a rider, i'd remain in the middle of the pack, that's the best way of not getting busted.

One thing that annoys me is how hypocritical they act when they get caught, jesus christ, let's get it over with it they are all juiced up. Either they all decide to lay off the stuff or they all advertise themselves as human chemical laboratories.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Jim R]

A question from a casual observer (although I try to understand the race, my favorite reason to watch are the views of the french towns and countryside )...

Is there never any actual competition on the final stage... the ride into Paris? I had assumed that only a rider who had a large lead on the final day was traditionally "crowned" ahead of time and not challenged, but with the situation this year (three riders within some 38? seconds of each other), I would have thought that the outcome would be left in doubt, and the final stage would be a climactic, hard-fought battle to see who would win the yellow jersey. I saw a brief interview with Levi Leipheimer this morning, and he was asked if he would challenge Cadel Evans for second place. This question alone took me a bit by surprise, and when he said "no", I became even more confused. Sorry.

If someone could generally explain this final stage, I would appreciate it.

[ASNL77]

A question from a casual observer (although I try to understand the race, my favorite reason to watch are the views of the french towns and countryside )...

Is there never any actual competition on the final stage... the ride into Paris? I had assumed that only a rider who had a large lead on the final day was traditionally "crowned" ahead of time and not challenged, but with the situation this year (three riders within some 38? seconds of each other), I would have thought that the outcome would be left in doubt, and the final stage would be a climactic, hard-fought battle to see who would win the yellow jersey. I saw a brief interview with Levi Leipheimer this morning, and he was asked if he would challenge Cadel Evans for second place. This question alone took me a bit by surprise, and when he said "no", I became even more confused. Sorry.

If someone could generally explain this final stage, I would appreciate it.

He is, I believe 23 seconds behind. It is not a lot but it is very difficult to take that much time in a flat stage especially the last one. There are several reasons;

1 If Evans or Leipheimer try to attack Contador, they risk to run out of energy and to lose their current 2nd and 3rd place (if they were to explode in the last few miles). Finishing 4th or 5th would mean losing a lot of money for themselves and for their team.

2 All the teams have a sprinter that they will try to help win the stage by preventing any attack. If Leipheimer or Evans were to attack, it is very unlikely that the other teams wouldn't try to chase them and annihilate their effort

3 The profile of the last stage ( flat ground and the last 25 miles on the Champs-Elysees is not ideal for attacks. The followers can always see the guys who attack in front of them and they usually make them do all the hard work before catching them up two or three miles before the end when they are completely roasted.

4 The last stage in Paris is a very prestigious one and all the teams do everything they can to win it. They don't let anybody out or if they do they keep a close eye on him...

5 It is usually very hard for any rider to win the Paris stage on a solitary effort but it is impossible to imagine that Evans or Leipheimer will be given an inch of space by Contador and his team.

Yet, you never know....

Hope that makes sense Jim.

Edited July 28, 2007 by ASNL77

[T.D.]

Agreed.

There's one further complication: Various "intermediate sprints" within the stage offer bonus seconds (and sprint classification points) to the winners. If Evans were to take every intermediate sprint, the total time bonuses would give him the lead. Leipheimer would require even less to overtake Evans.

Problem is that various teams' sprinters are competing for the green (points) jersey, and dearly want those intermediate points. Because of that, and since GC contenders are usually flyweights and lousy sprinters, it'll be almost impossible for such scenarios to play out.

However, I recall 2005, when the now-disgraced Alexandre Vinokourov launched a kamikaze attack to win the final Paris stage and take 5th place from Leipheimer. So it's not impossible, but teams will fight a lot harder to defend 1st and 2nd than 5th...

An interesting "what if" (see cyclingnews story): Leipheimer received a 10 second penalty in an earlier stage for getting a tow from a team car. Without that penalty, he'd be in second by 2 sec.

Edited July 28, 2007 by T.D.

[Jim R]

Thanks, guys. This is all even more complex than I realized, but you've both helped me to grasp it a bit better. I take it there is somewhat of a "gentlemen's agreement" concerning the way the Paris stage ends in a situation like this year. The teams must work together to insure that the overall leaders basically maintain their positions- is that correct? And so there IS a bit of "competition" on the final day, as the sprint at the finish is left for the riders who are already out of the running for the top positions to show their sprinting skills and provide a little excitement?

Leipheimer did make a reference to the tacky move on the part of Vinokourov a few years ago, but I didn't fully understand it at the time. It makes more sense now. From listening to Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin, I had gotten the impression that Vinokourov was a highly respected rider (and he did show a lot of guts and ability this year after the serious injuries).

[brownie]

It's going to be a grayish weather (with a possible light rain) over Paris today for the final stage of the Tour de France. A fitting environment to this year's race!

T.D. has excellently summed up the bonuses system for this final stage which should make this race pretty exciting.

But frankly I don't care very much who actually wins this 2007 Tour.

[ejp626]

I wonder about the whole process of giving some bonus time here and there for winning various stages and sprints. I suppose it is an attempt to balance the playing field, so it isn't only one type of rider who wins year in, year out (aside from the fact that the people who can avoid getting caught doping are the ones who typically win). But it just seems so open to gimmickry. I think most of that should be stripped out and move closer to a pure time to completion event.

[Aggie87]

I wonder about the whole process of giving some bonus time here and there for winning various stages and sprints. I suppose it is an attempt to balance the playing field, so it isn't only one type of rider who wins year in, year out (aside from the fact that the people who can avoid getting caught doping are the ones who typically win). But it just seems so open to gimmickry. I think most of that should be stripped out and move closer to a pure time to completion event.

If teams were not allowed but only individual riders, that might change alot of the strategy as well.

[Tim McG]

Nobody likes an "unbeatable" champion - that is, in the peloton - remember the boring days of Indurain? Lance is also not a winning personality, which added I'm sure to the frustration some of the French press and public may have had with him.

Now that the field is open, it should be interesting, but it's been ruined by all the bullshit!

I agree.

But here again, why does the champion have to be this really nice guy?

It's like you're damned if you win and damned if you don't.

Edited July 31, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[ejp626]

Just browsing the Onion and I saw this classic:

You can buy it here: Onion store

Honestly, I still see people around wearing the real one, and I sort of wonder about them. That was a couple of years ago, folks. You can take it off now. Or at least wash under it.

[clifford_thornton]

This is interesting... though I still am dubious of how doping will be dealt with, honestly.

2008 Tour Schedule

[tonym]

Those first three days should be fun through Brittany! No prologue so 180 riders galloping for the yellow....

If any board members need accommodation in that area please let me know. I know of a very nice cottage slap bang in the centre of the region which makes it easy to see all three stages.

[David Ayers]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

[tonym]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

Well if there's no bonification, the first to cross the line will be in yellow that night!

[brownie]

This is interesting... though I still am dubious of how doping will be dealt with, honestly.

At least the Tour management is taking serious steps to prevent the doping problem from getting out of hands.

From a Daily Telegraph/Reuters report today:

However, the organisers' main hope is for an end to the doping scandals that have wrecked the race's reputation in recent years. In July, Michael Rasmussen, yellow jersey holder at the time, and double stage-winner Alexander Vinokourov and his entire Astana team were kicked out of the race.

"We are fed up with the (doping) affairs. Let's go back to sport," Amaury Sport Organisation (ASO) president Patrice Clerc said.

To that effect, riders wishing to participate will have to be in possession of a "biological passport" currently being established by the UCI and World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). It means that teams will only be accepted if they supply blood samples from their riders to create a medical profile that will be used as part of the testing process.

Let's hope we will have a real winner in 2008!

[David Ayers]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

Well if there's no bonification, the first to cross the line will be in yellow that night!

Then when they all finish together on the secopnd and third days...? Hmmm.

[tonym]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

Well if there's no bonification, the first to cross the line will be in yellow that night!

Then when they all finish together on the secopnd and third days...? Hmmm.

then it goes to the points they acquire as a matter of course each day.

[David Ayers]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

Well if there's no bonification, the first to cross the line will be in yellow that night!

Then when they all finish together on the secopnd and third days...? Hmmm.

then it goes to the points they acquire as a matter of course each day.

Oh. Sounds thrilling.

[tonym]

I can't understand how stage finishes will work without time bonuses. What is the motivation for all the sprinters if they will just all get the same time? I feel I'm missing something...

Well if there's no bonification, the first to cross the line will be in yellow that night!

Then when they all finish together on the secopnd and third days...? Hmmm.

then it goes to the points they acquire as a matter of course each day.

Oh. Sounds thrilling.

That's stage racing for you

[brownie]

From BBC News today.

TOUR DE FRANCE EARNS CITY £120M

London's economy benefited by more than £120m by hosting the start of the Tour de France race, it has been announced.

Spectators, teams and race organisers spent an estimated £88m while media coverage generated a further £35m, Transport for London (TfL) confirmed.

Fans flocked to watch the opening ceremony, time trial and stage one on the weekend of 6, 7 and 8 July.

Organisers were paid £1.5m to hold the start in London. Talks have begun to see it return before the 2012 Olympics.

Despite embarrassing doping scandals surrounding the race, London's mayor is determined it should return to the city.

'Greatest start'

Mayor Ken Livingstone said: "The Tour has generated well over £100 million in spending and publicity, which will in turn attract more visitors and encourage the organisers of future sporting events to choose London."

London's transport commissioner, Peter Hendy, said: "We are working to bring the Tour back to London as soon as possible.

"The Tour organisers, media, riders and spectators said it was the greatest start the Tour had ever had."

Tourism also received a huge boost as 2m people lined London's streets over the weekend and another million watched the riders race through Kent on the first stage.

Interest in cycling also jumped as an estimated 48,000 more cycle journeys were made every day on London's major roads in the six months from April to September, a 10.5% increase compared with the same period last year.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_n...don/7115228.stm