Dmitry Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 The current Dutch generation is a pale shadow of the ones from 45 years onward. The didn’t qualify justifiably. In all the WC and UEFA Cups I’ve watched, the Dutch were almost always my favorites. Italy was certainly mismanaged, but the Dutch...what’s happened to them?! Quote
erwbol Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 11 hours ago, sidewinder said: The needle’s stuck.. On English self-congratulation. 3 hours ago, mjazzg said: The discusion was about now, remind me again, how did Holland do in this WC? Well enough to be average in quality and bereft of creativity? Or does that describe the Dutch side's failure to qualify? The discussion did not involve the crisis of Dutch football at all, but focussed on the current World Cup. Much has been said domestically on the decline of Dutch football, and it does not involve the self-delusion and -congratulation displayed by the English media (and public) around its current team. Even at the time of their third place in Brazil 2014 the Dutch national team were being severely criticised at home, including by analysts at full-time on live television. It must be the Dutch brand of outspokenness that's troubling you. Though luck, chums, Johnny Foreigner has a mind of his own and is not afraid to speak it. Quote
mjazzg Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) Your use of the phrase "Johnny Foreigner" in this context says so much more about your perspective than all your other well chosen words. Edited July 15, 2018 by mjazzg Quote
erwbol Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, mjazzg said: Your use of the phrase "Johny Foreigner" in this context says so much more about your perspective than all your other well chosen words. I am glad you believe my use of chum was jolly good! I love putting in these silly British words when I can. Tally ho! Off to watch the final! Quote
Simon Weil Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Arrogance is a charge that has been made about the English (as is the one about self-delusion) - including by someone English whose views I highly respect. Quote
Brad Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 I wonder what country or sports team has not been accused of arrogance? Very few, I think. Quote
erwbol Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 For the record, the Dutch freely acknowledge we can be arrogant when it comes to our opinion of ourselves in sport. Perhaps the line between self-confidence accompanied by outspokenness, and arrogance is not always clear. See for instance Formula 1's Max Verstappen's character. Born in a Belgium to a Belgian mother and Dutch father, both racing families. Went to school in Belgium, but spent most of his youth racing surrounded by the Dutch. He feels Dutch and drives for the Netherlands. His attitude is very Dutch indeed. Quote
Brad Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Dmitry said: My sympathies are with the Belgians. They should have been in the final. An amazing collection of talent, the best I've seen in decades! At least they are leading the Tour de France, so far. Quote
mjazzg Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) I'm really hoping Mbappe sets the final alight but also respect Modric very much as a footballer and would like to see him win a WC. But, on balance Allez Les Bleus! Edited July 15, 2018 by mjazzg Quote
mjazzg Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) and, thank you Mr. Lineker for articulating so well what that song and phrase, that has seemingly upset so many, means over here. Couldn't have put it better myself “Football’s coming home is a fun song highlighting the lack of success of our football team for decades. No one really thought we’d win it. I totally get why you might think it was arrogance, but it’s more our self-deprecatory sense of humour.” Edited July 15, 2018 by mjazzg Quote
soulpope Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Somebody should tell the French team that the final game started 10 minutes ago .... Quote
Brad Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) Being behind is a situation that doesn't seem to bother Croatia. Hopefully, we will see more goals. I'd hate to see a final decided on a OG. Edited July 15, 2018 by Brad Quote
Brad Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) Shades of Pique. That one was easy to call. Croatia has literally handed France the lead. Edited July 15, 2018 by Brad Quote
mjazzg Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 France haven't been allowed to get started yet and still they lead Quote
brownie Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Les Bleus have a hard time opposing the dominating Croatians. Hope they survive their current lead. Quote
erwbol Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, brownie said: Les Bleus have a hard time opposing the dominating Croatians. Hope they survive their current lead. Analysts on the Flemish VRT seem to think so, although they are hoping for the Croatians to win. 5 minutes ago, mjazzg said: France haven't been allowed to get started yet and still they lead It's their game plan. Loathsome. Quote
Brad Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Has France shown up yet? They are being outplayed, out hustled, etc. Were it not for Croatian mistakes, they would be in trouble. Come what may, with the quality gap between nations closing, this WC has to encourage smaller nations. The big ones are not as imposing as they used to be. Quote
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