Goooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[Clunky]

1 hour ago, Brad said:

Croatian Press Reactions to their Semi Final Victory

Humility must not be in their alphabet. 

The British media were no less jingoistic in the 48hrs or so running up to kick off. The commentary on TV here was as overinflated as it gets but a least it didn’t disparage the Croatians (too much) 

[Brad]

I suppose it’s to be expected.  The run up to the final should make for some good reading. 

[mjazzg]

In a way I find it oddly comforting that the press in other countries can be as bad as ours.

as for the TV commentary, just laughable in its pomposity at times. Don't get me started on Roy Keane's punditry (Oh, Ok then I will, if you all insist) - the man who walked away from WC pressure criticising players for not being able to handle the pressure of a WC semi-final...maybe true but pot meet kettle

[Brad]

I read about Keane today in The Guardian.  

Speaking of which, Jorge Valdano has written a few good articles for them during the Cup.  

[Dmitry]

7 hours ago, Brad said:

Croatian Press Reactions to their Semi Final Victory

Humility must not be in their alphabet. 

Have you read the English tabloids coverage of the Cup? It's pretty much all garbage.

Universal literacy doesn't mean universal enlightenment.

And BTW the Croats did IMHO trounce the English yesterday, even though the score may not reflect the disparity in class. 

[Brad]

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

Have you read the English tabloids coverage of the Cup? It's pretty much all garbage.

Universal literacy doesn't mean universal enlightenment.

And BTW the Croats did IMHO trounce the English yesterday, even though the score may not reflect the disparity in class. 

No, I haven’t had the pleasure. I confine my reading of the WC to the Times, Marca, AS and The Guardian.

It would be like me reading the NY Daily News to find out what’s going on in the world. They’re best used for kitty litter.  

They beat the English but trouncing, no. The Croats were not that great in the first half or the early part of the second. 

[Brad]

Cristiano Ronaldo was more than just goals. The end feels cold.

by Sid Lowe in The Guardian. 

[mjazzg]

Enjoyed this analysis of the French side and Deschamps approach to forging a team rather than focussing on individuals

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/12/didier-deschamps-france-world-cup-final-belgium

made me think that you could substitute Southgate for Deschamps in many of the sentences. England just need the players of experience and quality. Two or Four year's time 

54 minutes ago, Brad said:

Cristiano Ronaldo was more than just goals. The end feels cold.

by Sid Lowe in The Guardian. 

I'm not always convinced by Lowe's writing but this is a good read.

By any measures Ronaldo's an astonishing player and the way he has managed his career and maintained that physical prowess shows nothing but great dedication. I could do without the narcissism but I suspect that's all part of the same package.

Totti played until he was 40 in Italy so I can't see why Ronaldo won't. As Lowe points out the way he's changed his game to adapt to advancing years is very clever and, in an entirely different way, reminiscent of Pirlo and his golden later years at Juve.

He's just a very exciting footballer and as that free-kick against Spain in the opening match showed there's an uncanny inevitability about him performing. Having said that, the less I see of the shorts hike at free-kicks the better, especially around meal times...

 

[Brad]

I love Lowe as a writer and, for me, he is the expert on Spanish football.  I mentioned this earlier but I highly recommend his book about Barcelona and Real Madrid, Fear and Loathing in La Liga.  Not just a sports book but sports and politics intersecting.  

[mjazzg]

Yes, that book's on the "to read" list. Maybe good WC replacement therapy for next week.  Fascinating relationship between the cities and the football clubs. 

I just find Lowe's style a bit unnecessarily florid at times. I invariably enjoy the subject of his articles but find his writing style trips me up (a bit like a Colombian defender )

What's your take on Ronaldo's transfer as an RM fan, Brad? Timely good business or short-sighted error?  And, can Bale step up or will they need Hazard plug the gap? I'd love to see Bale given the chance as I think he's another great footballer

[Brad]

Ronaldo didn't feel they appreciated him sufficiently. When the tax authorities hit with a big fine, he thought they should have publicly supported him and he also didn't like the club chasing Neymar.  Basically, his ego (which is swollen already) was hurt and clashed with another big ego, that of Florentino Pérez, the president of the team. Zidane' leaving is due in part to him and Perez not agreeing on personnel decisions.

They will obviously miss him because you just can't make up that amount of scoring. There's talk of them getting Mbappe and James coming back but the man is a goal scoring machine. Impossible to fully replace. I don't think Bale has fully committed to them yet, plus he always seems to get hurt so they can't fully count on him.  Even a healthy Bale can't replace Ronaldo's goals. I think Barcelona is interested in Hazard and he in them so he may not wind up at RM  

Depending on who they sign, I can't see them competing for the league title or another Champions League this coming year. 

[mjazzg]

Interesting, thanks. I'd not heard of the Hazard/Barca flirting. Mbappe would be an exciting option though.

It the short to medium term it might be better all round if they can develop options that mean they don't rely so heavily on one player to score.  

[Brad]

Apparently, Madrid has announced a large bid for Hazard.  Let the bidding begin!

[mjazzg]

Hazard and De Bruyne a class apart today and it was very apparent that the Belgian team has 3 times as many international caps as this England side.

A good WC for England nonetheless, exceeding expectations and making the most of their strengths and the draw they were dealt. It will be interesting to see how Southgate develops the team (by leaving Sterling out, hopefully) over the two years to the Euros when football will be coming home again!

For Belgium, has to be an opportunity missed

[erwbol]

4 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

A good WC for England nonetheless, exceeding expectations and making the most of their strengths and the draw they were dealt. It will be interesting to see how Southgate develops the team (by leaving Sterling out, hopefully) over the two years to the Euros when football will be coming home again!

Typical English self-delusion. 

[Brad]

25 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Hazard and De Bruyne a class apart today and it was very apparent that the Belgian team has 3 times as many international caps as this England side.

A good WC for England nonetheless, exceeding expectations and making the most of their strengths and the draw they were dealt. It will be interesting to see how Southgate develops the team (by leaving Sterling out, hopefully) over the two years to the Euros when football will be coming home again!

For Belgium, has to be an opportunity missed

I think England did have a good WC. They were a young team and this will only help them in the Euros and the 2022 WC.

 

[Brad]

Was Russia 2018 the best World Cup ever?

And other reflections on the state of the sport. 

[Dmitry]

4 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Hazard and De Bruyne a class apart today 

IMHO right now DeBruyne is the most universal footballer in the world. He’s amazing to watch, when he’s on.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Dmitry

[mjazzg]

4 hours ago, erwbol said:

Typical English self-delusion. 

How did Holland do?

[erwbol]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

How did Holland do?

Since the seventies, on the whole probably a lot better than England, but that's beside the point. It's really a fluke that a team as average in quality and bereft of creativity as this England made it this far in the tournament. The only reason this is worth commenting on is the way the English characteristically dealt with it. Most overrated team in the tournament for sure.

[Simon Weil]

My problem with England is the lack of creativity in the side, which is a generic problem with English sides - and a generic problem with the English (IMHO). That's part of the reason I was so negative about this WC, because I think they've just decided that work-rate and etc. is good enough. It's true that they're young, but I don't see them going very far without the creativity they don't seem capable of.

Southgate is the first manager I've believed in for a while - and I think it matters that he's English to motivate the side. None of the foreign managers seem to have got the side up, which he has. In those terms he's probably the best manager they've had since Robson.

N.B. I barely watched any of their stuff - just some highlights - but I'm not sure, if you strip the patriotism away, that I missed much. I loathed the way it was such a big deal on the news. God, it pissed me off how important people made this out to be.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Simon Weil

[sidewinder]

3 hours ago, mjazzg said:

How did Holland do?

Not very well !

1 hour ago, erwbol said:

Since the seventies, on the whole probably a lot better than England, but that's beside the point. It's really a fluke that a team as average in quality and bereft of creativity as this England made it this far in the tournament. The only reason this is worth commenting on is the way the English characteristically dealt with it. Most overrated team in the tournament for sure.

The needle’s stuck..

Edited July 15, 2018 by sidewinder

[Brad]

As a non European, I don’t understand this negativity about England.  People were excited because it looked like a team that had something, especially when you look at past history.   What’s wrong with a little exuberance and passion for your country. Nothing as far as I can see.  I know a lot of countries would have been thrilled to get as far as they did. 

[Dmitry]

Since we are on the England trip here again...for me one of the annoying elements of the English presence was listening to your national anthem. Not only it is musically primitive and uninspiring [imho, of course], but God save our gracious Queen! Long live our noble Queen! and the rest of it, to an outsider just feels tacky. I know England is proud of her traditions, and cherishes them...but nobody on your team seemed to go out of their way belting it out with any type of emotion; it looked more like a chore.

They did progress to the final 4, and that is an excellent mark, which, hopefully, they will use as the creative spark. You've got a great keeper, good defenders, world-class forward. Your midfield is poor, work on it for the next two years, and you've got another top 4 team in the making!

My sympathies are with the Belgians. They should have been in the final. An amazing collection of talent, the best I've seen in decades!

[mjazzg]

Believe me, there are very many English and most definitely UK citizens who'd ditch that dirge in a trice. I find it an embarrassment and it's sentiments wholly outdated but then I'm a rabid republican 

It actually amuses me most of the time (but not all the time hence this post, I guess)the ire that the England football team seems to generate.  For an average and limited team that's over performed and brought joy to a nation of football fans and non-fans alike they have certainly generated a disproportionate amount of discussion. (maybe it's the power of my and Sidewinder's prose? oops arrogance alert...)

I'm never sure whether it's a product of history, footballing or otherwise, the current political situation with respect to EU, a largely outdated view of English fans or simply that the players' public profiles outstrip their ability. A lot's been written on this board about English arrogance which seems to be based on our media's reaction and one song "Football's coming home" the context of which has been sorely misunderstood.

Thanks to Brad and Dmitry for even handed posts that completely avoid the sweeping national stereotypes of other posters.

Anyhow, thankfully or otherwise we can now focus on France (often regarded as arrogant in the UK, the irony ) and Croatia. Allez Bleues!!

Except for one follow up question...

9 hours ago, erwbol said:

Since the seventies, on the whole probably a lot better than England, but that's beside the point. It's really a fluke that a team as average in quality and bereft of creativity as this England made it this far in the tournament. The only reason this is worth commenting on is the way the English characteristically dealt with it. Most overrated team in the tournament for sure.

I didn't ask they'd done since the seventies did I? The discusion was about now, remind me again, how did Holland do in this WC? Well enough to be average in quality and bereft of creativity? Or does that describe the Dutch side's failure to qualify? 

Edited July 15, 2018 by mjazzg