Tenor Battle!!!

[Larry Kart]

He's got that Stan Getz/Zoot Sims thing down cold.

Well, yes, but "down cold" as though he were shuffling through a pile of note cards. Listeners of a certain age will have come across lots of not-that-well-known players who were heavily influenced by Getz/Sims/Cohn et al. but were nonetheless individual and interesting -- Sandy Mosse, Bob Graf, Angelo Tompros, Al Siebert (Tompros and Siebert both from the D.C. area), Dick Hafer, etc. The difference between the IMO organic disciple-ship of such players ("organic" both in the sense that -- as was the case with Pres and these guys' own models -- something in their models spoke to something that was deep in them, and "organic" also in that their solo work at its best was a kind of story-telling, not a buffet table of licks). On the other hand, I dimly recall that one at least one Hamilton recording, his playing struck me as though it were getting to be real -- the one he made with Gerry Mulligan, "Soft Lights and Sweet Music."

[marcello]

Wayne, of course, is playing in a older style now too. The difference is that it's his own style!

Exactly! I have nothing against Scott Hamilton, but for all his talent, his was a comfortable solo, and the pleasure one gets is the pleasure of relaxing with pipe and slippers as the family dog brings the newspaper in his mouth. Wayne's solo, even if he can do this stuff reflexively by now, is more about rearranging the furniture and training the dog to do weird shit.

I take issue with the notion that Hamilton doesn't have his own style. He is as much a of sax stylist within the swing idiom as Shorter is within the post-bop idiom.

Every player has his own "style" when they put a horn in their mouth, but Wayne's is original and influential. Wayne's "style" is it's own planet!

Hey, I own a couple of Hamilton sides! He's best with a ballad, to me.

Edited June 17, 2007 by marcello

[Larry Kart]

The difference between the IMO organic disciple-ship of such players ("organic" both in the sense that -- as was the case with Pres and these guys' own models -- something in their models spoke to something that was deep in them, and "organic" also in that their solo work at its best was a kind of story-telling, not a buffet table of licks).

Sorry, the sentence above isn't a sentence. What I meant was something like "The difference between Hamilton's note-card shuffling and the disciple-shop of such players was that their disciple-ship was IMO organic.... etc."

[JSngry]

I can't come down on Hamilton too hard (if at all) these days (put me down in the camp the feels that, "unoriginal" as he is, he's still developed into a player with an integrity of its own sort), simply because it really does seem to me that he's playing what he enjoys playing, that he enjoys playing what he plays, and that he has not fallen into the trap of blatant/creepy xeroxed-to-the-most-intimate-detail imitiation. Simply put, I get the feeling that he's playing for the sheer fun of it, nothing more, and nothing less. There certainly have been (and still are) far worse "mindsets" for a player to be in. And, as much as I myself enjoy (and overall prefer) hearing/playing/being around players who are "looking for more" both in the music technically and in themself personally, the older I get and the more I see people who have done so at the expense of being able to simply have fun with their music and their life (and keep in mind that that this is by no means a majority of such players), the less derision I feel for a player like Hamilton, for whom having fun might be all they have to offer both us and themself, but hey, oh well, and all that. Life's too short to spend it attempting to defang the fangless, if you know what I mean.

Still curious as to how Tabackin came in after Wayne. And I still think that Monday and Wayne should collaborate. As for Scott Hamilton, hey, play on man, play on. Just don't be offended if I still laugh my ass off when I see you and Wayne together, ok?

[Alexander Hawkins]

That rhythm section is struggling badly IMHO..!

[sal]

That rhythm section is struggling badly IMHO..!

They didn't know what to do once Wayne started digging in.

[AllenLowe]

I think the rhythm section is great, drummer knows what to do behind both tenor payers, Hamilton plays very well, Wayne is great (nice subtle reference to Trane somewhere about 4: 45 - one of the tunes he plays with Duke on the Impulse sessions) -

[MoGrubb]

Thanks for the link.

That rhythm section is struggling badly IMHO..!

They shouldn't have followed Shorter into "oblivion," should have maintained the

inside groove. They could've done this and still kicked for Shorter; silly rhythm section...

[JSngry]

That rhythm section is struggling badly IMHO..!

They didn't know what to do once Wayne started digging in.

Dude - that was Wayne's rhythm section. From the Phantom Navigator period.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I had no idea! Listening again, I should say - I still think they struggle, but actually, a lot of my reaction is that I just don't like what they're doing - all those pedals from Willis are really not nice to my ears!

[paul secor]

No comment on Hamilton.

Wayne Shorter has always sounded to me like one of the most overrated saxophonists of the past 50 years. JMO, and I'm sure I'm in a distinct minority - especially here. Hearing the clip did nothing to change my opinion.

[Unk]

First, thanks for posting the clip. I like Scotty just fine; always have (20+ years). Pleasant listening in the positive sense. I like Wayne too...though here he leaves me cold. Normally, I think Wayne's energy would trump Scott's 'cool breeze', but this just seems like energy being thrown about without much relevance to the specific situation/song. All that said, I'll check it out again later.

[RDK]

Apples and oranges.

[Jim R]

I enjoyed the whole "bebop nazi" thing more than the tenor playing. First YouTube argument I've seen where nobody called anybody "gay"... although it could still happen.

[bertrand]

This is indeed Wayne's band+Hamilton (and Tabackin and maybe others?).

What piece are they actually playing? I don't recognize it and the head is missing. It might be a Wayne piece from that period.

There's also a clip of this band (same festival?) with Clark Terry guesting on 'The Three Marias'. Clark doesn't know the head, but does take a decent solo.

It's too bad that when festivals plan these kind of meetings, they never think of what material to be played - just toss some superstars together on the stage and let 'em blow. Obviously, rehearsals would add to the cost, but perhaps they could have thrown in a bit extra for Wayne to write a part for Clark on the head - that might have been very interesting.

Wayne played 'Over Shadow Hill Way' and 'Footprints' for the 1997 Monk Competition TV Gala. He had (IIRC) Scofield, Jim Beard, Patitucci, Carrington and Moreira PLUS a trumpet of section of Brecker, Faddis and Diego Urcola (the second-place winner). Obviously, Wayne had written an arrangement of the first piece for this configuration. If you saw the TV show and thought they didn't pull it off, I can tell you that I saw them play the piece about 12 times in rehearsals and some of the 'takes' (unrecorded, I'm sure) were just mind-blowing. I'm sure this arrangement (with three trumpets) evolved into the orchestral arrangement of this piece that Wayne does when he has the orchestra gigs.

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

What piece are they actually playing? I don't recognize it and the head is missing.

It's just a blues.

[Chuck Nessa]

What piece are they actually playing? I don't recognize it and the head is missing.

It's just a blues.

I just played it for the 4th time. Wayne is wonderful.

[Chuck Nessa]

It's just a blues.

AND it is rarely "just a blues".

[7/4]

WTF. Recently some videos on Youtube will not load for me, including some I've posted myself!!! And I've used different computers in my house.

Wish I could see this one...

Same here....